DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on October 25, 2014, 12:27:33 PM
-
http://time.com/3414346/wife-of-british-hostage-pleads-isis-for-release/?iid=tabvidrecirc
Isis carries a black flag with the motto, there is no God but God, and a white circle that represents the seal of Mohammed.
They think they are in the best traditions of Islam and are following the instructions of Mohammed closely.
This is a powerful argument to present to a financial contributor or a recruit.
-
I think that the Arabic text on the ISIS flag is the same as is on the Saudi Flag.
Green is a traditional Islamic color which is linked to the prophet Mohammad who founded Islam and to the Fatimid dynasty. The white text, called the Shahada, is the Muslim Statement of Faith. It translates in English to "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is the Messenger of Allah." The sword is a symbol of justice and represents Abdul Aziz ibn Saud who was the first Saudi King.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/2dtfoc/isis_flag_translated_into_english_translation_by/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/2dtfoc/isis_flag_translated_into_english_translation_by/)
Green is the traditional Muslim color. Black is the color worn by descendents of Mohammad.
-
I think that the Arabic text on the ISIS flag is the same as is on the Saudi Flag.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/2dtfoc/isis_flag_translated_into_english_translation_by/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/2dtfoc/isis_flag_translated_into_english_translation_by/)
Green is the traditional Muslim color. Black is the color worn by descendents of Mohammad.
I am not surprised.
One of the key issues that leads this war into being is the conduct of Islam.
The Saudis spend and support the establishment of Mosques all over the world , even in the US.
Isis shoots anyone who might resist the spread of Islam.
Some argument this is.
-
Isis is going about winning converts the wrong way. Join us or we will shoot you is not likely to gain them people who respect them.
Westerners who join Isis seem to be potential psychopaths. They would not be accepted by the US or British military or the French Foreign Legion because they are dropouts or have criminal records. ISIS will take anyone, and you get a gun and get to shoot people and blow them up right away.
-
In large part I agree.
But think about the emphasis.
Join us and slay the unrighteous and take their stuff has been a great recruiting pitch for getting an army together since a way back.
-
this just popped in my head about extremist. it`s stated they are a very small segment and unpopular. but if you use the American kkk example . that group got attacked by the majority. I don`t see ISIS being stopped by muslims. muslims who are vocal against tend to be individuals and likely will die.
-
Yes .
It took 50 years for the opposition to the KKK to become effective , then twenty years more to drive the KKK down.
And they are not gone yet, just reduced to insignificance, which is probably better than gone.
-
Ridicule is what caused the KKK to become unpopular. The next generation refused to join because they did not want to be ridicules as ignorant racists.
-
That is an enormous part of the picture, dignity is craved where it is in short supply.
It was part of the recruiters appeal that the organization was powerful.
But the KKK was no joke while it was ubiquitous and very dangerous.
they were quite willing to defend their honor with other peoples blood.
This might indeed be something of a similarity with Isis.
-
The KKK was originally anti-Black, anti-Jewish and anti Catholic.
Now they are only anti Black, and find Catholics useful fellow travelers, since they are anti-woman and want to prevent women from having abortions as do the Catholics.
I don't think that, apart from returning to Good Old Days that never were, ISIS and the Klan have much in common. That, and being violent and ignorant.
-
I don't think that, apart from returning to Good Old Days that never were, ISIS and the Klan have much in common. That, and being violent and ignorant.
These are significant similarities, and their appeal to recruits is similar also.
I would like to think that the similarity is enough that we already know how to reduce them.
Your suggestion of ridicule is a good one, if the ridiculer can be kept alive.
-
The KKK wanted to resurrect the Old slaveholding South, which was impossible. They knew it was impossible: the South was defeated and destroyed: and every year, the North became stronger.
ISIS wants to resurrect something that has not existed since 1258 that they have only heard about in flamboyant, poetic descriptions of the past.
There is a different mentality between the two cultures. The main reason most people joined the Klan was that you got to keep half the dues that any new member gave you. It was as much like Amway as it was a religious movement.
-
they are anti-woman and want to prevent women from having abortions as do the Catholics.
You are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.
The abortion holocaust has killed millions and millions of baby girls.
Protecting innocent baby girls is the opposite of anti-women!
You are anti-women by supporting the murder of so many baby girls.
(https://aparnadesai.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/girl.jpg)
The real war on women:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2539648/Thousands-girls-aborted-gender-Study-finds-couples-cultures-sons-deemed-desirable-terminating-female-pregnancies.html
-
You hate women, and refuse to allow women to make their own damned decisions.
Chuck you Farley.
-
The KKK wanted to resurrect the Old slaveholding South, which was impossible. They knew it was impossible: the South was defeated and destroyed: and every year, the North became stronger.
ISIS wants to resurrect something that has not existed since 1258 that they have only heard about in flamboyant, poetic descriptions of the past.
There is a different mentality between the two cultures. The main reason most people joined the Klan was that you got to keep half the dues that any new member gave you. It was as much like Amway as it was a religious movement.
That is one way to look at it , but it isn't the way the KKK looked at it , they were working on something new and something that they hoped would last a very long time.
They also did nothing to limit themselves to the South for a while Indiana was one of their most dominated states. They were seen marching in massive formation on Pennsylvania avenue.
They could have appropriated any strength of any state if they were able to keep the hearts and minds of the people. But they did not, the truth of their mission was a lot less glorious than the vain self-promotion that they were prone to disseminate.
Isis isn't wanting to get rid of all the technology that has been discovered since 1400, rather they want to conquer the world as it is and shape its future religiously. They are nothing like the Amish , except the beards.
-
I do not recall saying that ISIS has any similarities with the Amish.
I do not think that the Klan and ISIS have much in common at all.
-
I do not recall saying that ISIS has any similarities with the Amish.
I do not think that the Klan and ISIS have much in common at all.
So you agree that they are not averse to progress, they don't mind weapons being quite modern indeed.
Other than having a different set of scriptures to misrepresent , there is little difference between the KKK and the ISIS.
-
No I do not agree. The leaders of ISIS are not devout, they are mostly cynical ex-Baathists who are using Muslim fanaticism to control people and extort them. They use kidnapping and theft as their principle means of income. I don't think the KKK kidnapped people for ransom, and they never controlled territory or sold natural resources they stole on the black market. Race means nothing to ISIS, it us all about religious sects to them.
What they have in common is that they are unwholesome and antisocial. The former Confederacy and Syria have very little in common.
To defeat ISIS, nothing that was used against the KKK will be of any utility. A knowledge of Iraq and Syria, Shiites and Sunnis is what is needed. Reading Birth of a nation will be of no use at all.
-
Unless you are with them , there is no reason to care how sincerely devout they are.
The things that made the KKK objectionable the most are what the ISIS has in common with it.
I am not going to say they are exactly alike , I am saying they are similar manifestations of humanity.
You agree that the KKK and Isis are both human , no?
-
They are all featherless bipeds, I admit.
-
They both depend on recruitment of people who feel oppressed , whether the feeling is justified or not, they offer dignity and influence .
I am glad you brought up ridicule , that is the method Mark Twain recommended ,and used with little mercy.
I think ridicule could work , but it isn't very useful to people who are captives, or otherwise under realistic threat.
-
Was in the Caribbean and couldn't check in till now. Wow .did not expect such a response. My comparing the Klan to isis is a common theme to me. I notice on some topics a refusal to compare. Ex. Slavery to prostitution. Glad that here it finally made it
.will post later when I have a real computer to use
-
Hope you're having a blast, on the trip, Kimba ;-)
-
lots of fun but very humid. I saw monkeys,so I`m good. For some reason I find Hawaii more tolerable climate.
-
Agreed on the climate, although I find the Caribbean waters more comfortable & beautiful 8)
-
It does have a certain charm and the fact people can live super cheap there is very nice. But hawaii has a certain magic to it
-
Hawaii has a cooler and dryer climate. The Caribbean is more humid and hotter.
Hawaii is more expensive, especially if you travel between islands.
The Dominican Republic is more interesting to me, because I speak the language and understand the culture.
-
haven`t been there yet. but was in dominica and people can live a whole year without spending one cent . looks to me the only reason folks has jobs there is to pay for their cell phone service.
-
Dominica is a small British Island where most of the people speak a French patois. There are about 80,000 people, including some kalinagos, descendents of native Indians, and income is about $7K per year. I really doubt that people live on nothing, but a lot of people grow their own food on small plots (casabe, plantains, pigeon peas, pumpkin like squash, Chickens and goats, among other things). Most homes are zinc roofed things and few people have AC.
Ganja is quite popular, along with dreadlocks and reggae music.
-
I was told by the folks there they can. Food grows everywhere and shelter is whatever shack they can make . But i find the heat there unbearable.
-
The people of Dominica are accustomed to the heat.
Most of them were the historic inhabitants of the Island or were brought there from West Africa, which has a similar climate.