Author Topic: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship  (Read 42353 times)

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BT

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Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« on: August 04, 2010, 01:33:14 AM »
Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
By BEN EVANS, Associated Press Writer Ben Evans, Associated Press Writer Tue Aug 3, 6:25 pm ET

WASHINGTON ? Leading Republicans are joining a push to reconsider the constitutional amendment that grants automatic citizenship to people born in the United States.

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said Tuesday he supports holding hearings on the 14th Amendment right, although he emphasized that Washington's immigration focus should remain on border security.

His comments came as other Republicans in recent days have questioned or challenged birthright citizenship, embracing a cause that had largely been confined to the far right.

The senators include Arizona's John McCain, the party's 2008 presidential nominee; Arizona's Jon Kyl, the Republicans' second-ranking senator; Alabama's Jeff Sessions, the top Republican on the Judiciary Committee, and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a leading negotiator on immigration legislation.

"I'm not sure exactly what the drafters of the (14th) amendment had in mind, but I doubt it was that somebody could fly in from Brazil and have a child and fly back home with that child, and that child is forever an American citizen," Sessions said.

Legal experts say repealing the citizenship right can be done only through constitutional amendment, which would require approval by two-thirds majorities in both chambers of Congress and by three-fourths of the states. Legislation to amend the right, introduced previously in the House, has stalled.

The proposals are sure to appeal to conservative voters as immigration so far is playing a central role in November's elections. They also could carry risks by alienating Hispanic voters and alarming moderates who could view constitutional challenges as extreme. Hispanics have become the largest minority group in the United States, and many are highly driven by the illegal immigrant debate.

McConnell and McCain seemed to recognize the risk by offering guarded statements Tuesday.

McCain, who faces a challenge from the right in his re-election bid, said he supports reviewing citizenship rights. He emphasized, however, that amending the Constitution is a serious matter.

"I believe that the Constitution is a strong, complete and carefully crafted document that has successfully governed our nation for centuries and any proposal to amend the Constitution should receive extensive and thoughtful consideration," he said.

At a news conference, McConnell refused to endorse Graham's suggestion that citizenship rights be repealed for children of illegal immigrants. While refusing to take questions, he suggested instead that he would look narrowly into reports of businesses that help immigrants arrange to have babies in the United States in order to win their children U.S. citizenship.

The 14th Amendment, adopted in 1868 in the aftermath of the Civil War, granted citizenship to "all persons born or naturalized in the United States," including recently freed slaves.

Defenders of the amendment say altering it would weaken a fundamental American value while doing little to deter illegal immigration. They also say it would create bureaucratic hardships for parents giving birth.

Quoting a newspaper columnist, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said Republicans were "either taking leave of their senses or their principles" in advocating repeal.

An estimated 10.8 million illegal immigrants were living in the U.S. as of January 2009, according to the Homeland Security Department. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that as of 2008, there were 3.8 million illegal immigrants in this country whose children are U.S. citizens.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100803/ap_on_go_co/us_republicans_birthright_citizenship/print

Michael Tee

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 12:07:36 PM »
<<They also could carry risks by alienating Hispanic voters and alarming moderates who could view constitutional challenges as extreme. Hispanics have become the largest minority group in the United States, and many are highly driven by the illegal immigrant debate.>>

Understatement of the year.  The GOP already has the right-wing, racist, anti-immigrant vote locked up.  What the hell can they gain with this bullshit other than infuriating moderates and Hispanics whose votes might otherwise be up for grabs?

The automatic citizenship granted to anyone born in the  U.S.A. (including my first two grand-children) has no basis in logical fact, but it is a very practical approach.  Without it, millions born in the U.S. would have their status put in question depending on the mother's (and possibly even the father's) immigration status at the time of birth.  All the arguments against deporting the "illegal" immigrants ("they jumped the line, they didn't play by the rules, they're just law-breakers and criminals" etc., etc., etc.) would become totally irrelevant against these children and their deportation would serve no real purpose at all.  Anyone of Hispanic origin would feel inhibited from the free expression of his or her political beliefs because who knows? at any time the U.S. government might decide that he or she has no right, despite a valid U.S. birth certificate, to be in the U.S.A., and deportation proceedings could be launched instantly based on allegations of maternal status at time of birth.

<<Quoting a newspaper columnist, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said Republicans were "either taking leave of their senses or their principles" in advocating repeal.>>

It's their senses they're taking leave of, their racist principles will remain intact.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 12:20:33 PM »
Bobby Jindal, the Governor of Louisiana and prominent Republican, was born here while his parents were on student visas.

This is moronic of the GOP, but it will be their downfall, and that is a GOOD thing. The schmucks have no business trying to run this country.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 12:25:41 PM »
Quote
The automatic citizenship granted to anyone born in the  U.S.A. (including my first two grand-children) has no basis in logical fact, but it is a very practical approach.

Does Canada grant citizenship the same way? Mexico? France? Sweden?

BT

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 12:33:49 PM »
Quote
It's their senses they're taking leave of, their racist principles will remain intact.

If the change in the amendment would not affect Irish and Eastern European descendants the same way it would affect Hispanics you might have a point, but as far as i can see it would, so you cries of racism reflect more your preference for false demagaoguery than truth.

sirs

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 01:32:28 PM »
Quote
It's their senses they're taking leave of, their racist principles will remain intact.

If the change in the amendment would not affect Irish and Eastern European descendants the same way it would affect Hispanics you might have a point, but as far as i can see it would, so you cries of racism reflect more your preference for false demagaoguery than truth.

Now THERE's the understatement of the year.  Careful though Bt.  You again, called Tee on his apparent tendency to not remain truthful.  You're going to get banned from any futher "debate" with him.  I'm surprised you lasted this long     ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 03:52:02 PM »

If the change in the amendment would not affect Irish and Eastern European descendants the same way it would affect Hispanics you might have a point, but as far as i can see it would, so you cries of racism reflect more your preference for false demagaoguery than truth.


Perhaps. But I have not seen anyone talking about needing to stop Irish immigrants or Eastern European immigrants from coming here to have babies. Pretty much exclusively the argument is made that we need to stop Mexican immigrants and Central and South American immigrants from coming here to have babies. That the effects of the change would be more broad than that does not mean the people pushing for the change are not motivated by irrational prejudice directed at a specific ethnic segment of immigrants.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 04:16:00 PM »
Close.......the arguement is largely that we need to keep stop ILLEGAL Mexican immigrants and ILLEGAL Central and South American immigrants from coming here to have babies.

Legal Mexican, Central & South American immigrants can have all the babies they want.  Same holds for legal Irish & Eastern Eropean immigrants that choose to make America their new home

But you knew that
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Kramer

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 04:18:45 PM »
Bobby Jindal, the Governor of Louisiana and prominent Republican, was born here while his parents were on student visas.

This is moronic of the GOP, but it will be their downfall, and that is a GOOD thing. The schmucks have no business trying to run this country.



why should guests that come here and have babies get FREE citizenship for the child? I could care less if they are here to see Mt Rushmore, buy drugs, pick veggies, or are here on a student visa. Part of the reason this country is all messed up is because of that stupid interpretation. It is a likely reason why you are here. Anyway, both you and Jindal are not going to be retroactively punished if the law goes into effect. Hell, why would you care anyway? Do you care when a mother aborts her child after 7 months?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 04:33:39 PM »
Polls show a majority of Canadians oppose automatic Canadian citizenship for children born on Canadian soil from non-Canadian parents who are in the country. Canada and the U.S. are two of the very few countries that allow this practice.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Amianthus

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 04:42:38 PM »
Polls show a majority of Canadians oppose automatic Canadian citizenship for children born on Canadian soil from non-Canadian parents who are in the country. Canada and the U.S. are two of the very few countries that allow this practice.

It's called "jus soli" and it's a feature of English Common Law. More information about specific other countries is at this link.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 04:49:58 PM »
Thanks Ami I was pretty sure most of the world does not allow "anchor babies". Almost no European nations grant birthright citizenship. Canada is just about the only developed nation other than the United States that allows such non-sense. No country that allows anchor babies other than the United States has more than 200 million people. Only the United States, Pakistan and Mexico have 50 million or more. It might be surprising to most Americans that automatic citizenship is not at all common in the developed world and we are part of very few that allow such crap!


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Universe Prince

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 05:32:36 PM »

Close.......the arguement is largely that we need to keep stop ILLEGAL Mexican immigrants and ILLEGAL Central and South American immigrants from coming here to have babies.

Legal Mexican, Central & South American immigrants can have all the babies they want.  Same holds for legal Irish & Eastern Eropean immigrants that choose to make America their new home

But you knew that


Sirs, you can dance around the issue all you like. I've had it with the whole illegal vs. legal issue. What it comes down to is fear and a desire for control. You can say legal immigrants are welcome all you like, but so long as legal immigration is made expensive and difficult (unless one is famous like David Beckham) and the intent is to tightly control borders, it's not a legal vs. illegal issue. It's an immigration issue. It's about stopping ordinary people from coming here for reasons that have do with old and repeatedly unfounded fear. "Few of their children in the country learn English. The signs in our streets have inscriptions in both languages. . . . Unless the stream of their importation could be turned . . . they will soon so outnumber us that we will not preserve our language, and even our government will become precarious." Benjamin Franklin said that in 1753. He was worried about German immigrants. Even Thomas Jefferson worried about immigrants coming here and ruining everything. This push to control immigration/borders is nothing new, and little good will come of it.

Ultimately, the immigration issue is a distraction. Immigrants make a handy scapegoat. "We can't afford the drain on public resources..." Really? Welfare, Medicaid, et cetera, we've decided cannot touch those problems. So we say immigrants are coming here and unfairly taking advantage of us. "They steal jobs..." Without the laws making immigration difficult there would not be a black market in labor. "They disrespect the sovereignty of our nation/law when the come here illegally..." So? The law is not just. I cannot blame them for breaking it any more than I could have blamed a thirsty black man drinking from a "whites only" water fountain in the 1950s. When laws are unjust is the real problem the lawbreakers or the law?

Is the real problem that people are coming here, legally or illegally, to give birth to children? Is the real problem that people are coming here to work? Or is the problem that we have allowed unfeasible government run social programs to be propped up over and over while we try to keep out of the country people who want little more than to work here? Is the problem that people who are poor and needy want to come here to help themselves and their families stop being quite so poor and needy, or that we want to control the decisions other people make?

And no, I don't mean the decision to come here illegally. I mean the decision to hire people from other countries. I mean the decision of something as non-rights-violating as looking for work where the opportunity is better. We say poor people here can work hard and make money. Poor people can move from state to state to change their situation and look for work. But we say you poor people from outside the nation, too bad, we don't want you here. And if you do live here legally, and you want to hire poor people from Mexico to work for your business, too bad, you shouldn't be allowed to hire them. It's about control and getting in the way of what would otherwise be legal and reasonable agreements between individuals, agreements that should largely be no business of anyone else.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 05:36:11 PM »

we are part of very few that allow such crap!


It's not crap. It's a point of pride. We are not a society of classes based on race or gender or nationality. That is a very good thing.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 06:37:25 PM »
Close.......the arguement is largely that we need to keep stop ILLEGAL Mexican immigrants and ILLEGAL Central and South American immigrants from coming here to have babies.

Legal Mexican, Central & South American immigrants can have all the babies they want.  Same holds for legal Irish & Eastern Eropean immigrants that choose to make America their new home

But you knew that

Sirs, you can dance around the issue all you like.


Actually, no dancing involved.  It's actually a clear cut issue


I've had it with the whole illegal vs. legal issue.


Ironically, THAT's what makes it a clear cut issue. 


What it comes down to is fear and a desire for control.

Close again.  Subtract the egregious fear use, and What it comes down is a desire to control who comes into this country.  Strangely, it's the same desire nearly every other country on this globe has.  Imagine that


You can say legal immigrants are welcome all you like, but so long as legal immigration is made expensive and difficult (unless one is famous like David Beckham) and the intent is to tightly control borders, it's not a legal vs. illegal issue.

Since there are millions who have and do go thru the process, it's PRECISELY the issue


 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle