DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: kimba1 on December 20, 2011, 11:24:31 PM

Title: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: kimba1 on December 20, 2011, 11:24:31 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/12/19/national/a163351S51.DTL&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/12/19/national/a163351S51.DTL&tsp=1)

I challenge anyone to say they could of thought this up.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 12:06:08 AM
I agree that this seems to be a freak accident.

I would think, however, that the very first step of cleaning any gun would be to remove all ammunition from the gun.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 12:18:08 AM
1st rule of gun ownership/responsibility, treat every gun, as if it is loaded

2nd rule.....don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 12:23:22 AM
To clean a gun, you have to treat it as though it were unloaded. This requires unloading it first.
It must be unloaded before you start taking it apart.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 12:31:38 AM
It's called rules of gun ownership Xo.  Of course you have to unload it before cleaning it.  The point is, if folks were to follow the 5 rules of gun ownership/responsibility, 99.9% of all gun accidents would be prevented
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 12:35:40 AM
I agree that this is true. But once one unloads a gun, he3 no longer needs to treat it as a loaded weapon.

I have heard about a lot of gun accidents. Usually they are of three types:  children playing with a gun, idiots fooling around, often drunken idiots, and "gun cleaning accidents". I doubt that anyone has ever been shot with an unloaded gun,and from what I know about guns, it does not take a major amount of skill to unload one.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 12:40:36 AM
I agree that this is true. But once one unloads a gun, he3 no longer needs to treat it as a loaded weapon.

Well, under the guise of logic......d'uh.  If a person KNOWS its unloaded, because they PERSONALLY unloaded it, and it has never left his/her sight, of course they no longer need to treat it as a loaded weapon      ::)
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 01:15:46 AM
Then you do not treat a gun you unloaded as if it were loaded, do you?

That was my point.

You are such a turd: even when you agree with someone you just have to do a sirs put-down.

I feel ever so sorry for the unfortunate Mrs sirs, if such a person exists.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 01:43:21 AM
Leave it to Xo, to belabor a point that's moot, then erroneously claim I'm the one trying to disagree.  And the Mrs sirs is doing just fine, thank you.  In fact, she was a staunch anti-gun person, until I educated her on the responsibilities of gun ownership, and the handling of a firearm.  But by all means, continue with your irrelevant vestages        :o
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 09:59:14 AM
I was not referring to anything regarding guns, but the annoyance of living with anyone who has to include a put down with every exchange.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 11:11:02 AM
I was (referring to guns), yet you managed to try and find something to put down in my merely referencing responsible handling of them.  Mrs sirs has been mightily grateful in being educated in such.  Yet the "professor" apparently couldn't be bothered in such, and had the knee-jerk reaction to make an issue that's not an issue

Again, one of those times where if you didn't agree with what I was referencing what I was saying, to merely move on to another post, instead of digging some uncredible hole of irrelevant point making and attempted personal slurs
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: kimba1 on December 21, 2011, 11:15:08 AM
I was hoping this would be a topic about reality exceeding fiction. oh well
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 11:30:04 AM
Ditto.  Such a tragic accident.  Granted the fella cleaning wasn't exactly considering rule #2, but your title presents a scenario where he didn't adhere to the most important rule of gun handling.  It should have been unloaded prior to his cleaning it.  As I was referring to earlier, if one follows the 5 rules of gun responsiblity/ownership, these accidents would pretty much be a non-existant reality
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: BSB on December 21, 2011, 01:05:17 PM
"it does not take a major amount of skill to unload one."

You wouldn't think so but I had to show a police officer how to open up a Ruger Super Blackhawk revolver, and check it. I didn't comment, but I couldn't believe it.


BSB
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 03:32:03 PM
It is a pretty good bet that unloading a gun is not done by pulling the trigger.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 03:58:25 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
Then there is this, from Utah:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/man-accidentally-shot-own-dog-221644169.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/man-accidentally-shot-own-dog-221644169.html)
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 04:24:26 PM
Following the 5-rules of gun ownership, such accidents would not occur, period
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on December 21, 2011, 05:25:26 PM
It is unreasonable to expect a dog to understand the "five rules of gun ownership".

Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 05:31:35 PM
It's even more unreasonable to expect that this has anything to do with the dog.     :o   
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Amianthus on December 21, 2011, 06:49:20 PM
"it does not take a major amount of skill to unload one."

You wouldn't think so but I had to show a police officer how to open up a Ruger Super Blackhawk revolver, and check it. I didn't comment, but I couldn't believe it.

I had one police officer who called another police officer to unload one of my Rugers one time.

He proceeded to chew her out after he arrived because 1) she had no reason to stop me and 2) she was an idiot.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Amianthus on December 21, 2011, 06:51:42 PM
It is a pretty good bet that unloading a gun is not done by pulling the trigger.

Not unloading it, but one of my handguns requires you to pull the trigger to release the slide and open it for cleaning. Without pulling the trigger, the spring will hold the slide in place. Needless to say, you should make sure it's unloaded before doing this...
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: Plane on December 21, 2011, 06:58:00 PM
  This is a muzzle loading rifle.

   It can be unloaded without firing but that is difficult.

     Most muzzle loader owners just fire it, but firing into the air is a bad habit.

  This accident is unusual but it isn't a first.
Title: Re: the worst gun cleaning accident. beyond imagination.
Post by: sirs on December 21, 2011, 07:06:53 PM
As Plane accurately states, its a VERY bad babit to simply fire it into the air.  Rule#4 : Know your target and what is beyond.  This accident should have never happened.  Can't say the same about the dog shooting a gun that was left alone, when he inadvertantly jumped on it