DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on June 24, 2015, 04:33:19 PM
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(https://i.ytimg.com/i/ka_CL7uJJthyJt3ovloWWA/mq1.jpg?v=4f071031)
Leaked Freddie Gray autopsy report shows
why Mosby wanted it to stay secret!
June 24, 2015
The Baltimore Sun threw new fuel onto the Freddie Gray case Wednesday when it published a leaked autopsy report that showed the how the Baltimore man most likely died in the back of a police van in April, sparking riots and national headlines and yet more accusations of police violence against blacks.
It sounds like a long way from second-degree murder.
The report showed Gray was placed in the van on his belly, shackled at the wrist and ankles, the Sun reported. However, he was not otherwise restrained and at some point likely managed to stand in the van, the autopsy reported. According to the autopsy, that placed him "at risk for an unsupported fall during acceleration or deceleration of the van."
The Sun reported that the medical examiner's office ruled the death a homicide rather than an accident because police failed to belt Gray into place for the van. The report likened the injury to one suffered by a person diving into shallow water and hitting his head on the bottom.
It was "not an unforeseen event that a vulnerable individual was injured during operation of the vehicle, and that without prompt medical attention, the injury would prove fatal," the autopsy stated.
(Good luck to the prosecutor trying to thunder to the jury that they should find a police officer guilty of murder because "it was not an unforeseen event that the injury would prove fatal.")
Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby, who in early June sought a court order to keep the autopsy results from the public, criticized the leak.
Defense attorneys had not yet received a copy of the report from Mosby's office, according to the Sun.
Supporters of the charged officers, who have said from the beginning that Mosby is using the case for political gain, called the report ammunition for their side.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/06/24/leaked-freddie-gray-autopsy-report-shows-why-mosby-wanted-it-to-stay-secret-217155
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We all know that standing up in a van is a capital offense.
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We all know that standing up in a van is a capital offense.
we all know that placing an inmate in a police van laying on his belly is murder!
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We all know that standing up in a van is a capital offense.
So is diving in shallow pools and kissing cobras.
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There were no cobras involved.
It is too bad that they cannot resurrect this horrible person and then try him for his own murder, isn't it?
It would surely teach him a lesson, I tell you what!
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There were no cobras involved.
There might also have been no police misconduct.
Not if this is actually how it happened.
Weird tho , is this a hypothisis of how it happened or is there evidence for this theory?
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He was in their custody, so they are responsible for his death. It is really quite simple.
Even if he committed suicide, they were in charge and it is therefore their fault.
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No one is aguing that the prisoner was in their custody, and their responsibility. The issue is the supposed level of recklessness, that would warrant a murder charge. The FACTS would appear to discredit that charge
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The FACTS will be decided, alas, not by you, but by a jury.
The cops are guilty of some sort of misconduct, because the guy is dead.
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The FACTS will be decided, alas, not by you, but by a jury.
The FACTS are in reference to the autopsy report. A Jury will decide what to do with the facts
The cops are guilty of some sort of misconduct, because the guy is dead.
No one claimed otherwise. It's the murder charge that's pretty outrageous however
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He was in their custody, so they are responsible for his death. It is really quite simple.
Even if he committed suicide, they were in charge and it is therefore their fault.
True.
But this sounds more like manslaughter via negligence than murder due to malice and depravity.
If the intent was to kill him , the method chosen seems unreliable.
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I doubt the wanted to kill him.
My guess is he stood up and pounded on the front of the holding pen in the van and they decided to give him a wild ride. This of course, is illegal.
Arresting the cops for his murder made it easier for the demonstrations and rioting to stop. The jury will decide what they are guilty of.
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I doubt the wanted to kill him.
My guess is he stood up and pounded on the front of the holding pen in the van and they decided to give him a wild ride. This of course, is illegal.
And even IF that were the case, is still not murder, as defined by the law. Of course, the law matters not to folks like yourself, so one can see why you have no problem throwing the murder accusation around. It's just a word
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Strangely, it is not up to me or to you to define this as a murder. That is the job for the court.
All I have said was that the cops acted very improperly, the evidence being that the guy they took prisoner, who does not seem to be guilty of having an illegal weapon, is now dead as a result of their actions.
You, however, secretly think that being Black and not conservative, should be a capital offense.
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prisoner, who does not seem to be guilty of having an illegal weapon, is now dead as a result of their actions.
No the dumb-ass Freddie Gray is dead mostly because of his own combative, non-cooperative actions.
(http://s4.postimg.org/thbvqqq7h/Police.jpg)
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You, however, secretly think that being Black and not conservative, should be a capital offense.
And yet, more idiocy on display. I really feel sorry for your students
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I am retired, you twit. I have not taught anyone anything for five years now.
And when I did, I did not teach political science.
So fuck off, imbecile.
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I am retired, you twit. I have not taught anyone anything for five years now.
We all knew that. I'd be referring to the past pool of students
And when I did, I did not teach political science.
That's overtly evident
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I have forgotten more about political science than you have ever known, twit.
I taught my students SPANISH, idiot.
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Dr Deflection strikes again. Never claimed you taught Poli sci, you moron
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You know NOTHING about what I taught my students.
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XO I really believe you are going to be very disappointed once again with the outcome of this court case.
The facts will all come out....and all the hollering and race baiting will be shown to BS again.
You (your side) are not exactly batting a very good average with these cases lately...once the real facts are known.
The officers are just not guilty of murder. That is ridiculous.
One or two of the officers....not all...may be guilty of not following procedures.
Freddie was probably acting like a dick....so they probably treated him like a dick.
That is not murder...their actions or lack of do not warrant any type of murder charge.
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You know NOTHING about what I taught my students.
You taught Spanish. That's all I have any need to know. Yet given the level of ignorance you tend to spew, such as the latest asanine racist accusations, made me feel sorry for them
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You should feel sorry for yourself, loser that you are.
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Deep ::)
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I doubt the wanted to kill him.
My guess is he stood up and pounded on the front of the holding pen in the van and they decided to give him a wild ride. This of course, is illegal.
Arresting the cops for his murder made it easier for the demonstrations and rioting to stop. The jury will decide what they are guilty of.
By not having his seat belt on they are certainly guilty of an infraction they would write any of us up on.
Is it important or unimportant that some of the accused are not white?
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I do not think the race of the accused cops is important.
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I do not think the race of the accused cops is important.
This is surprising.
Does the racial makeup of the police team have no potential to mitigate the racial context of the tragedy?
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No, it does not.
The Baltimore riots occurred because of the hopelessness that many poor Baltimorians feel. Unemployment is huge, anyone with any sort of a criminal record (such as one involving several joints of pot) is declined from any government job and most private ones, The fact that most of the poor in that section of Baltimore and Black was a factor, but the real culprit is the economic system treats a huge number of people as "throwaways".
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The police almost certainly treated Freddie Gray "like a dick". They do not have a right to treat anyone "like a dick".
He was not arrested for any legitimate reason. He had a knife, which was not illegal, and he tried to run away from a cop. That is also not illegal.
He had a right to be upset over being arrested for no good reason. I realize that some of you think that he should have obeyed the police like a good little boy, realizing that his being Black was to the police a reason to believe that he was guilty of something. He should have sighed and said to himself "It is true: I unwisely chose to be born in the US to parents of a darker hue: in my next incarnation, I shall choose richer White parents who believe in Jesus and his Holy Crusade for Less Government and guns for all."
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he tried to run away from a cop. That is also not illegal.
In what universe?? It's absolutely illegal to run from the police who have ordered you to sit/stay. Of course you can be upset, but you have no right to run or resist.....otherwise expect to get treated like a dick, REGARDLESS OF YOUR SKIN COLOR
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The cops had no right to arrest this guy in the first place, and now he is dead.
I am sure you are rejoicing abut this, because, well, you are not a racist, and side with the Black cop or something.
The police have the obligation to treat ALL citizens with respect.
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Act like a dick, get treated like one. That doesn't equate to his death, nor does it equate to a murder charge. Sorry if facts and common sense keep getting in the way of a good irrational rant. Fact remains he had no legal right to run from the Police, regardless of how innocent he PERSONALLY believed himself to be
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The story was, that he locked eyes with one of the cops, and immediately began to run away. He was running before the cop said anything.
The cop stopped him because he began to run.
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Word to the wise.....don't run away from a police officer. You just gave him the impression you did something illegal
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Not me, I would never run. I have turned around in my car to avoid a roadblock, with no consequences.
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So have I. That doesn't equate to "running away from the Police", however
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Many criminals are just stupid. Being stupid, however, is not a crime.
The cop has to tell you to stop before you have to stop.
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Many criminals are just stupid. Being stupid, however, is not a crime.
No one ever said otherwise. Most liberal democrats would be behind bars, if that were the case. It IS a crime to run from the police, if they've told you to stop. And the best way to get them to do that is to look right at them, and start running. It's stupid, but as soon as they tell you to stop, its now become a criminal act
The cop has to tell you to stop before you have to stop.
And I'm sure the officer did, as soon as he started running
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Baltimore has been governed by Democrats since before most of their police force was out of diapers.
Does this make any difference?
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The people of Baltimore elect their leaders. If you question their judgement, then you question democracy.
Republicans are not much good at running cities.
Republicans are exceedingly unresponsive to the will of the people. Notice how they are STILL against gay rights, oppose medical marijuana, are only concerned with lowering taxes, especially for the rich, and ending benefits for the poor. The poor have been removed from rural poverty, where they could at least grow their own food, and driven by economic necessity into the cities. The rich like having a very hungry source of labor there, half to pay poorly, another half to replace them if the poorly paid become uppity.
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The people of Baltimore elect their leaders. If you question their judgement, then you question democracy.
LOL......this is indeed enlightening. So, if a city's policies put in place by a particular party, and performed by that party for decades, that any said criticism is "questioning democracy", ....as in advocating anarchy or rebellion? Seriously??
And so when the people of this country elected both Reagan and Bush, then folks like yourself were "questioning democracy?"
Republicans are not much good at running cities.
Point being, we have prime examples of Democrats not just "not much good" but downright abhorrent in running cities. But because they've made so many voters beholden to Government services and/or working for the Government, they have a built in voting block despite how bad their running the city is. But nice try and misdirection
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You have no clue about how to run any damned thing except your mouth, sirs.
People may make stupid choices. Reagan and Bush were stupid choices. Maybe some of the Democrats who ran Balitimore were also stupid choices. That does not make Republicans good choices.
If people elect a government that does not work, one supposes that they will vote for a different candidate the next time. If the election is fair, they have no one to blame but themselves.
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You have no clue about how to run any damned thing except your mouth, sirs.
Brilliant leftest rhetort.......anything and everything to avoid the point being made. When people make bad choices electing Republicans, they're just being stupid. But when they make bad choices electing democrats...well, any critique is tantamount to questioning democracy.
Priceless
If people elect a government that does not work, one supposes that they will vote for a different candidate the next time.
You could suppose that, but not if you're so beholden to the party of the Government. They're kind of stuck, voting for the candidate who's pusing more Government, unless their principles are so strong they can avoid the financial constraints they've been put in by those Government policies, and vote their conscience
If the election is fair, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Mark your calendars folks....the Professor finally got one right 8)
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There is ZERO reason to believe that Republicans are any better at running large cities than Democrats.
This may have been true when Theodore Roosevelt and Tammany Hall were around, but it is not true now.
If the city government is holding down what you pay in rent to a third of your income and the Republican't Party is financed by Guys that want an end to rent controls that will double your rent (think Donald Trump), then you would have a good reason not to vote for the Republican't.
Not everyone thinks that doubling the income of guys like The Donald is a proper way to encourage capitalism and job growth.
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There is ZERO reason to believe that Republicans are any better at running large cities than Democrats.
Except of course example after example after example after example of how abhorrent Democrats are demonstrating thesemves in being totally unable to run a large city.....or small one for that matter. All across the country, Detroit, Baltimore, LA, now NY, all predominantly run by Democrats, and all largely crashing in debt. Yet, because of the grip "Big Government" has on the ongoing expanding voting poor block, their policies keep getting re-run, and the same economic & employment disasters follow.....egregious, but effective at keeping the powerful, in power. And the Oligarchy stays happy
I mean, it really is a brilliant plan, politically. Make more people poor, and in "need" of Government, and they in turn vote for the party that pushes more Government control. It's egregious in how the agenda is to make as many people as poor as possible, with only a few folks like the Kennedys, Gores, Clintons, Soros', and pretty much every DC Senator, (and yes the Bush's & Kochs) in charge of everything and deciding what we serf should be allowed to have
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What has actually happened is that in many states, Republican governors have been elected and they have cut taxes for such essential things as freeways, universities and schools, leaving county and city governments to pick up the check. Freeways in north Florida are nearly all free, but Miami-Dade and Broward counties, which pay the highest taxes, have to fund their own highways with tolls.
This is not a result or Democratic mismanagement, it is due to Republicans being cheapskates and passing the buck to the counties and cities.
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Yea, that explains why Republican Governors keep getting relected, by a majority of states...because they're cheapscates...........not
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XO, have you got a particular city or district in mind when you say that there are poorly run Republican administered cities?
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Municipal elections here are non-partisan, but we certainly have had a lot of corrupt and stupid municipal governments. Doral, North Miami, Miami Lakes have all had major scandals. Mostly over corruption rather than any matter of ideology.
The problem with many cities is that the Republican state legislators who depend on the voted of the hicktown rednecks and other yokels cut state taxes and let the municipalities pay for what the state used to fund. Highways, universities, any number of programs.
The poorest state government in the country presently is Kansas. Brownback has slashed taxes so much they had to cut the school year short for lack of funds.
It has not resulted in any spurt of employment, either. Taxes in Kansas have always been low and Kansas has never been generous or even reasonable in its benefits.