Jingoism at Its Worst

[domer]

The Administration has gone through a parade of justifications for the Iraq War. It started with WMD, progressed through many changes to "a beacon of democracy in a hostile region," and, after further permutations, to "it's better to fight them there than here." This last justification is cruel and jingoistic.

Superficially supporting the war effort NOW as the critical battle in the overall War on Terror (a circumstance which the Adminstration itself has made necessary, conceding criticality for the sake of argument), no one seems to give a voice to, or a care in the world about, the 50,000 or so dead Iraqis, or thereabouts, and their nearly countless maimed comrades.

[Plane]

The Administration has gone through a parade of justifications for the Iraq War. It started with WMD, progressed through many changes to "a beacon of democracy in a hostile region," and, after further permutations, to "it's better to fight them there than here." This last justification is cruel and jingoistic.

Superficially supporting the war effort NOW as the critical battle in the overall War on Terror (a circumstance which the Adminstration itself has made necessary, conceding criticality for the sake of argument), no one seems to give a voice to, or a care in the world about, the 50,000 or so dead Iraqis, or thereabouts, and their nearly countless maimed comrades.

Which of these justifacations is actually true?
WMD probly not ,I was surprised but I can stand being wrong, but the rest of these justifacations are disalowed why?

[domer]

I'm not clairvoyant, Plane, but virtually all indications now point to a failure of Iraqi democracy, at least in any seriously functional sense. And -- my major point -- the justification du jour depends on the transfer of an onus to people who have no voice in the matter, a naked exercise of the arrogance of power. In saying this I do not concede that the war would reach our shores in any significant way. We have, or we should have (but how about port security?), defenses to that.

[Plane]

Do you remember that President Bush described this period as "just a comma" , he was referring to the age of the Iriqui government .


The Iriqui government is in firm controll of a lot of its territory, if not enough the trend is still good.

  The Iriqui government is more democratic than ours was when it was seventy five years old .


What is the reason for demanding terriffic results yesterday?

A good trend and good goals is beter than announceing an arrival because there is no end to improvement .

I think that the milestone of self suffeciency can be reqached when Iraq does not need us to prop it up anymore , could be soon.


After all ,when we invade Sudan for its oil (or to rescue its opressed ) Al Queda martyers will all go there and leave the Iriquis alone.

[Michael Tee]

<< . . . no one seems to give a voice to, or a care in the world about, the 50,000 or so dead Iraqis, or thereabouts, and their nearly countless maimed comrades.>>

It's hilarious that you're even drawn to belabour the painfully obvious, domer.  They don't even give a shit about the 2,700 Americans killed and the thousands more maimed for life.  Maybe if they were fetuses, or even zygotes . . .

[Plane]

"the justification du jour depends on the transfer of an onus to people who have no voice in the matter..."


[][][][][][][][]

Hello , elections ?

Giveing these people a voice in the matter is the point , it isn't a garuntee of sucess but it has worked well for us.

[][][][][][][][][][][][]
""...no one seems to give a voice to, or a care in the world about, the 50,000 or so dead Iraqis, or thereabouts, and their nearly countless maimed comrades.>>

"It's hilarious that you're even drawn to belabour the painfully obvious, domer.  They don't even give a shit about the 2,700 Americans killed"

Or the two million that Saddam is probably responsible for .

Are you includeing in the number of Iriquis killed , the number killed by Iriquis? The number killed by Al Queda?

If so you might as well include all the ones that died in traffic accidents too.

There was already a bad situation there that was killing a lot of people , we changed the dynamic without changeing that, but if we can we will change that too , we certainly want to.

The guys that are explodeing Car bombs in markets over there do not want any peace at any price , they think the peace will be better after they have a war to take controll from not only the Americans but also the majority of the people on the scene. Good thing these guys are dieing at a rapid clip too , are you counting these deaths as our fault too? That would be fair these are the intended targets.

[Michael Tee]

The daily death toll in Iraq now surpasses anything that happened under Saddam, if you exclude the casualties of the Iran-Iraq War, a war which the USA actively promoted, encouraging and assisting Saddam in attacking his neighbour for no good reason.  The tortures inflicted by the Shi'ite militia death squads on randomly-kidnapped Sunnis who have no visible connection to the suicide bombers, surpass in number and equal in sadism the tortures of the Saddam regime.  The death squads operate through the Interior Ministry of the "democratically elected" government. 

The casualties can all be attributed to the US invasion and the anarchy which followed, as without the invasion, there would be no intercommunal killings, which are random and unrestrained. 

<<Giveing these people a voice in the matter is the point , it isn't a garuntee of sucess but it has worked well for us.>>

plane in that ONE SENTENCE, you have the entire essence of the problem - - especially if you read the last six words a few times.  READ IT.  THINK ABOUT IT.  JESUS CHRIST MAN IT IS RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES.  Every fucking thing that is wrong with your country, or at least with its Iraq policy, right there in front of you.  READ.  THINK.

[Plane]

"The daily death toll in Iraq now surpasses anything that happened under Saddam,..."

No, not even by a quarter. Nor even a tenth , Saddam may not be Hitler quite ,but not for lack of trying.

Saddam is very likely worth the two million he might be guilty of killing , but who is counting?

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

<<Giveing these people a voice in the matter is the point , it isn't a garuntee of sucess but it has worked well for us.>>

plane in that ONE SENTENCE, you have the entire essence of the problem - - especially if you read the last six words a few times.  READ IT.  THINK ABOUT IT.  JESUS CHRIST MAN IT IS RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES.  Every fucking thing that is wrong with your country, or at least with its Iraq policy, right there in front of you.  READ.  THINK.

[][][][][][][][][][][]

OK ,...I think you think that slavery is good for some people.