We're fucked

[Cynthia]

Hillary was right.....it takes a Village to Raise a Child.

It takes a family to raise a child.

Ah, but Bill, it takes more than a family....teachers are so very important to some of the children who are not born WITH.

It does take a Village to raise the child of this world.

It took parents to raise the children in my generation adn those before me.

But, this is, sadly, a different world.

Different is not something we should take for granted.

Different just IS.

[BT]

No reason families can't make a comeback.

The only thing that may have changed in the last generation id the definition of family.

But the state is not family.

It is the caregiver of last resort.

[Cynthia]

No reason families can't make a comeback.

The only thing that may have changed in the last generation id the definition of family.

But the state is not family.

It is the caregiver of last resort.

Unfortunately, the state has had to take over more than we would want.

Free lunches/when mothers should be fixing those peanut butter sandwiches and orange slices.

So, are we saying here that the family needs a bit of raising?

It will take a depressive state to revitalize the family in the end, sadly.

[sirs]

This of course is based on the OPINION that the war was "needless" and at the "root of the economic delimma", and that the President is a supposed "dolt".  I'm afraid I can provide countless examples of facts, timelines, & common sense that would provide an alternate position on both.  So, no ditto from me

Ok, Sirs, can you show me at least five of your countless?

regarding the war:
1) NIE supported the conclusion Saddam had stockpiles of WMD  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
2) CIA director concluded slam dunk on Saddam stockpiles of WMD  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
3) Weapons inspectors kicked out of Iraq for 4+years  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
4) Iraq with both direct & indirect ties to miltant islamic terrorists  (not sirs opinion....fact)
5) Weapon's Inspector David Kay stunned at how far Saddam had gotten on so many of his weapon's programs  (not sirs' opinion....David Kay's)
*) Near unianimous support by both houses of Congress to undertake military operations against Iraq  (not sirs' opinion....fact)

regarding the economic dilemma
1) Bush administration pushing importance of home ownwership and need to "make it easier to own a home"  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
2) GOP (including McCain) raising red flags at what was showing signs of trouble with Fannie Mae & Freddy Mac, pushing for more regulatory oversight  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
3) Democrats blocking every effort at increasing regulation oversight   (not sirs' opinion....fact)
4) Housing bubble that everyone knew was going to burst at any time   
5) Mortgage institutions being pushed to give mortgages to low income familes who would have otherwise not qualified for mortgages.  Many of them variable rate   (not sirs' opinion....fact) 

Very little connecting the 2, I'm afraid Miss Cynthia, and many many more facts, numerous politicians & pundit deductions, commission investigations, and timelines not even applied that help dispell the notion of how supposedly "needless" the war was and how it's some central source of the "economic dilemma"

So why are we rushing to vote for a liberal? Us meaning the nation at large.

Because the country, by and large, has the attention span of an MTV commercial

Why have we not understood what you have printed here, Sirs, as a nation?

See above.....helped immeasureably by the 24/7 doom and gloom presentation of the MSM, and their near salivation at the feet of "the One"

Why are we all hungry for change?

See above

How can it be that the voters in this country are not privy to your information?

They are.....as I said, they're all FACTS.  Try not to confuse "poll numbers" as negating the facts as they exist.  They're not my opinions Miss Cynthia.  The NIE really believed Saddam had WMD.  The vast majority of the Global Intelligence agencies believed Saddam had WMD.  The previous administration, chalk full of Democrats believed Saddam not only had WMD, but was a distinct threat to the region, and by reach, a national security threat.  So much of a threat that "Regime Change" was made an official policy position.  It took 911 to wake us up to the threat of militant Islam, and with the connections Saddam had to terrroists very similar to those that perpetrated 911, would have made it a grave irresponsibility had he NOT gone into Afghanistan & Iraq

Now you can hate Bush's guts all you want, call him every name in the book, agree with every one of Xo's completely dumbed down assessments of Bush the dolt & Cheney the Evil manipulator.  The facts are still there, the timeline of events will not go away.  But you can ignore them to your heart's content, in order to burn Bush in effigy.  Knock yourself out

[Michael Tee]

But the state is not family.

It is the caregiver of last resort.

=============================================

Yes, I can agree with that statement, believe it or not.  At least, for as long as we have to live in a capitalist society.

But AS caregiver of last resort, looking after the most helpless and vulnerable members of our society, do you want that caregiver - - who is all of us - - to be a penny-pinching, selfish and greedy skinflint or a loving and even generous protector?

[crocat]

But the state is not family.

It is the caregiver of last resort.

=============================================

Yes, I can agree with that statement, believe it or not.  At least, for as long as we have to live in a capitalist society.

But AS caregiver of last resort, looking after the most helpless and vulnerable members of our society, do you want that caregiver - - who is all of us - - to be a penny-pinching, selfish and greedy skinflint or a loving and even generous protector?

How about a happy medium, Michael?   I raised my children with a firm hand and taught them the word "rights" meant nothing more than responsibility.  I don't want our children raised by a molly coddling Grandma who is afraid to let them struggle a bit.

[Xavier_Onassis]

1) NIE supported the conclusion Saddam had stockpiles of WMD  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
2) CIA director concluded slam dunk on Saddam stockpiles of WMD  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
3) Weapons inspectors kicked out of Iraq for 4+years  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
4) Iraq with both direct & indirect ties to miltant islamic terrorists  (not sirs opinion....fact)
5) Weapon's Inspector David Kay stunned at how far Saddam had gotten on so many of his weapon's programs  (not sirs' opinion....David Kay's)
*) Near unianimous support by both houses of Congress to undertake military operations against Iraq  (not sirs' opinion....fact)

BUsh ordered up bogus "facts" to justify the invasion, which he and Cheney had been slavatying to do since they were selected.

Saddam had gotten NOWHERE with his WMD's. This was a smokescreen Saddam had created to scare away the Iranians.

Give up, you got nothing. No one believes this crap any more.

[sirs]

1) NIE supported the conclusion Saddam had stockpiles of WMD  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
2) CIA director concluded slam dunk on Saddam stockpiles of WMD  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
3) Weapons inspectors kicked out of Iraq for 4+years  (not sirs' opinion....fact)
4) Iraq with both direct & indirect ties to miltant islamic terrorists  (not sirs opinion....fact)
5) Weapon's Inspector David Kay stunned at how far Saddam had gotten on so many of his weapon's programs  (not sirs' opinion....David Kay's)
*) Near unianimous support by both houses of Congress to undertake military operations against Iraq  (not sirs' opinion....fact)

BUsh ordered up bogus "facts" to justify the invasion, which he and Cheney had been slavatying to do since they were selected.

THAT again, would be your completely unsubstantiated OPINION.  And the above FACTS trump your opinion every day of the week, I'm afraid to say

[Xavier_Onassis]

Your FACTS have the unvirtue of not being true.

Every day, fewer people believe them.

Juniorbush ordered up bogus crap and then kept harping on it.

[hnumpah]

...the state has had to take over more than we would want.

Maybe the parents shouldn't have abdicated so much of their responsibility to the state.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Maybe the parents shouldn't have abdicated so much of their responsibility to the state.


Too many parents think that the school has been appointed their babysitter. I had to walk to school every day, and from the sixth grade on, I had to fix my own lunches. I am not sure that I actually wore out three bicycles, but I did have three different ones, all bought for under $15 used.

[Cynthia]

Maybe the parents shouldn't have abdicated so much of their responsibility to the state.


Too many parents think that the school has been appointed their babysitter. I had to walk to school every day, and from the sixth grade on, I had to fix my own lunches. I am not sure that I actually wore out three bicycles, but I did have three different ones, all bought for under $15 used.

Days gone by, sadly.

I grew up right in the middle of the cold war era, the center of the century past had just ignited the flame of pollution with cars, factories, and such.....and yet, many families lived responsibly. What a paradoxical world in which we grew up.

I walked to school all my life, and took the bus to college.

Dessert for us was jello pudding, or a banana/orange. We were thrilled to enjoy a home made cake once in a while.

Of course the dinners were never McDonalds .....or any other fast food. The only fast food we had was another helping of mashed potatoes and gravy..."quick pass em on and make it FAST!

Ok, well, the life of many families today is healthier, tis true...but everything is fast-everything.  No time to sit together and gab.

No time to redd up the table together.....no time for homework because the tv has taken over along with sports.

Then there are the little lives damaged by our cruel and nasty culture.

I have TWO BOYS----2~ this year who lost their fathers to MURDER......!! Shot, burned and placed in a trunk of a car. Both men put in the trunk of a car.....one killed last June, the other killed last month.

I teach a little girl who's mother kidnapped her twice!! TOOK her to Kentucky and back again only to sweep her off to St. Louis.

I have another student in my room who is neglected to the point of staying home alone with his big brother who beats him up! He's treated like a stray. Child protective service is doing what they can...but it aint much!

We, as teachers are the only ones who give the best care to that boy.

This time the village is the only thing he has!

Life has changed. Gluttony will either take over and explode...Honey, I blew up the Nation!

or.....

we can ALL start to help do our part to make it a better climate emotionally and economically

just a little more

 baby steps, baby steps.

[Cynthia]

http://www.lifenews.com/nat2927.html


This is the ony reason why I do not want to vote for Obama.

[Michael Tee]

<<How about a happy medium, Michael?   I raised my children with a firm hand and taught them the word "rights" meant nothing more than responsibility.  I don't want our children raised by a molly coddling Grandma who is afraid to let them struggle a bit.>>

I have no problems with "rewards and perks have to be earned," although we sometimes gave in on that principle, and I think that with a little more firmness, we could have done a better job of raising strivers and highly-motivated over-achievers (our first is a real dynamo, the next two, more laid-back) but they've all done well, lead productive and interesting lives, and we're proud of them.

However, I did not mix up the concepts of "rights" with the earning of perks and rewards.  We tried to teach our kids respect for everybody's basic human rights, the "worthy" as well as the "unworthy."   Nobody has to "earn" basic human rights to life, food, shelter, medical care, dignity.  The worst criminal does not deserve to be tortured.  The laziest parasite has a right to life, food, shelter and basic medical care.  The most irritating bastard on the planet deserves to be heard.  Once you accept the principle that "rights mean nothing more than responsibility," you are starting down a trail where decisions will be made as to whose human dignity needs to be respected and whose does not. 

One of the problems that I see with judgmentalism is that it's too easy - - you see some panhandling bum on the street - - it's all too easy to see the negatives in the guy, but who can see the back-story?  - - the limited mental functioning, the early childhood abuse, the hopeless genetic hand he was dealt at birth, the fetal alcoholism syndrome, the beatings, the cruel or uncaring teachers, the perverted priests, the lack of just one caring person at some formative time who might have made a difference?   We don't really know each other, much less the "bum" we condemn in the space of a few seconds.

[BT]

I have another student in my room who get no care! He's treated like a stray.

We, as teachers are the only ones who give the best care to that boy.

This time the village is the only thing he has!

If that is the case he should be in foster care.