Author Topic: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words  (Read 9679 times)

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sirs

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2010, 05:29:25 PM »
Still waiting to see who it is that's wishing for a terrorist attack on the yet to be built Mosque     :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 05:34:20 PM »
I did not know you were a Reid supporter.

I'm not, but we are both Americans.
Harry Reid probably supports clean running water & having a military too.
Because I do not support him does not mean we can't agree on some things.
Just like I support that Obama is engaged in a tough assassination campaign
against suspected al-Qaeda operatives around the world and that he has placed
David Petraeus in charge of the most important war-front with radical Islam.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Kramer

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2010, 06:02:41 PM »
Quote
Who said they are "wishing" a McVeigh type blows this piece of shit mosque to smithereens?

So if you heard of such a plan you would attempt to stop it?


without hesitation I would

sirs

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2010, 06:08:01 PM »
That list of names Bt may have been referring to is likely getting really small.  Perhaps 1 name?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2010, 07:24:30 PM »
Glad to hear all three of you would attempt to stop such lawlessness.

Curious why it was even brought up and commented upon if you would all be against such an action.




Christians4LessGvt

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2010, 07:53:48 PM »
Curious why it was even brought up and commented upon if you would all be against such an action.

Because Kramer posted a picture of the IslamoNazi attack on the United States
where Muslims now want to place an Islamic Mosque/Islamic Center. This issue
is all over the news and very controversial. The American People overwhelming
oppose placing an Islamic Mosque/Cultural Center on this Hallowed Ground.
And I wanted to express to Kramer the extent and level of anger that exists
about this issue.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2010, 08:01:46 PM »
Glad to hear all three of you would attempt to stop such lawlessness.  Curious why it was even brought up and commented upon if you would all be against such an action.

Be serious Bt.  This location is a lghtning rod for extremists and idiots mutating their own version of Christianity, to perform the 'ol eye for an eye tact.  No one here I believe supports such an event, however the likelyhood is far greater the closer to ground zero this Mosque is placed.  And 2 blocks is nothing, when you consider the damage caused by 911 was far more than a mere 2 blocks
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2010, 08:36:36 PM »
Quote
This location is a lghtning rod for extremists and idiots mutating their own version of Christianity, to perform the 'ol eye for an eye tact.

I see. They would equate Bin Ladens actions with those of this Iman, but you wouldn't.


sirs

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2010, 08:50:31 PM »
That's why they're called radicals & extremists
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2010, 09:17:24 PM »
And they call those that equate the actions of an individual to a group prejudiced bigots.

Now explain to me again how sharing a religion is reason enough to deny someone their property rights?

sirs

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2010, 09:54:48 PM »
You're not paying attention Bt.  No one is saying people should be denied the right to build a mosque, on private property.  Its merely the location that is at issue, and the lack of wisdom associated with it       ::)

So, please go peddle the bigot BS elsewhere. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2010, 10:01:43 PM »
Quote
Its merely the location that is at issue, and the lack of wisdom associated with it

And the location is a problem because.... they are Muslims?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2010, 11:04:07 PM »


By Charles Krauthammer

August 13, 2010 12:00 A.M.

Sacrilege at Ground Zero

Even Mayor Bloomberg acknowledges that the rules are different when it comes to sacred places.

A place is made sacred by a widespread belief that it was visited by the miraculous or the transcendent (Lourdes, the Temple Mount), by the presence there once of great nobility and sacrifice (Gettysburg), or by the blood of martyrs and the indescribable suffering of the innocent (Auschwitz).

When we speak of Ground Zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there ? and that such ownership obliges us, the living, to preserve the dignity and memory of the place, never allowing it to be forgotten, trivialized, or misappropriated.

That's why Disney's early ?90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War (and wiser than me; at the time I obtusely saw little harm in the venture). It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why, while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive.

And why Pope John Paul II ordered the Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Even New York mayor Michael Bloomberg, who denounced opponents of the proposed 15-story mosque and Islamic center near Ground Zero as tramplers on religious freedom, asked the mosque organizers to show some special sensitivity to the situation. Yet, as Rich Lowry pointedly noted, the government has no business telling churches how to conduct their business, shape their message, or show "special sensitivity" to anyone about anything. Bloomberg was thereby inadvertently conceding the claim of those he excoriates for opposing the mosque, namely, that Ground Zero is indeed unlike any other place and, therefore, unique criteria govern what can be done there.

Bloomberg's implication is clear: If the proposed mosque were controlled by "insensitive" Islamist radicals either excusing or celebrating 9/11, he would not support its construction.

But then, why not? By the mayor's own expansive view of religious freedom, by what right do we dictate the message of any mosque? Moreover, as a practical matter, there's no guarantee this couldn't happen in the future. Religious institutions in this country are autonomous. Who is to say that the mosque won't one day hire an Anwar al-Awlaki, spiritual mentor to the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas Day bomber, and one-time imam at the Virginia mosque attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists?

An Awlaki preaching in Virginia is a security problem. An Awlaki preaching at Ground Zero is a sacrilege.

Location matters. Especially this location. Ground Zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.

Of course that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi, yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

Which makes you wonder about the good will behind Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposal. This is a man who has called U.S. policy "an accessory to the crime" of 9/11 and, when recently asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, replied, "I'm not a politician. . . . The issue of terrorism is a very complex question."

America is a free country where you can build whatever you want,  but not anywhere. That's why we have zoning laws. No liquor store near a school, no strip malls where they offend local sensibilities, and, if your house doesn't meet community architectural codes, you cannot build at all.

These restrictions are for reasons of aesthetics. Others are for more profound reasons of common decency and respect for the sacred.

No commercial tower over Gettysburg, no convent at Auschwitz, and no mosque at Ground Zero.

Build it anywhere but there.

The governor of New York offered to help find land to build the mosque elsewhere. A mosque really seeking to build bridges, Rauf's ostensible hope for the structure, would accept the offer.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243668/sacrilege-ground-zero-charles-krauthammer
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2010, 11:43:20 PM »
Shame the center isn't being built at ground zero. Krauthammer might have a point then. It is being built two city blocks away.

BTW is the Murrah Building sacred ground?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: A Picture is Worth 1,000 Words
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2010, 12:17:08 AM »
There are clearly two issues here. One is whether the group that owns the area where the mosque is planned should be allowed to build it, because somehow the entire area has been made different than any other area. And the answer is that this is a free country, and there are no grounds for denying a mosque to be built any more than any government has the right to prevent a church,synagogue, temple  or any other sort of civic structure to be built in the same place.

The other issue is whether it is good public relations to build it in this place at this time. Will  it benefit the image of Muslims that is held by non-Muslims?  How this will be seen a decade or a century from now really cannot be known.Many Parisians detested the Eiffel Tower and wanted it to be torn down.The Statue of Liberty had many critics,as did the Vietnam Memorial.The Washington Monument was the butt of many obscene jokes before it was completed.

Odds are this mosque will be less commented upon than Grant's Tomb or the Trinity Church in the future. At the moment is is being given far too much significance for stupid political reasons.

Personally,I doubt that it will benefit the image of Muslims held by Americans,and might even be a negative, because of all this invented controversy. I can't think of anything that the Muslims could do that might cause me to see Islam as any more positive an influence on civilization than other dogmatic and uncompromising religions,like American fundamentalists or Ultra Orthodox Judaism.

I do not believe,however,that most,or even many,Muslims desire to wipe out Western Civilization or have the ability to do so.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."