Author Topic: When does Palin get her apologies?  (Read 5830 times)

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sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 03:10:31 PM »
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Yes, it was sirs who prompted the title....rhetorically

So the title was not to be taken seriously?

Seriously in that it demonstrated how pathetic some of Palin's demagoguers are, since we shouldn't expect any such "apologies", nor was there ANY reference that apologies were being demanded or "wanted", much less required before any further discussions on death panels could be prompted    ::)

 
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As far as the later I supposedly "ignored", I had neither the time nor energy to deal with more than the initial erroneous conclusions you were making to start off with, at the time.

Apparently you still don't have the time nor energy to deal with my questions.

Yep, since I'm still having to expend time and energy on your continuted gross conclusion errors.  Perhaps if you drop that, we could move on.  Your call
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 04:30:25 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2011, 04:16:02 PM »
Perhaps you would like to explain the erroneous conclusions I came to.

It was your thread title, not Cal Thomas's.

As far as I can tell the only problem you have with death panels is that the fed might engage in the practice, though the private sector might be allowed to do it , because tax dollars are not being used.
Though i question whether an actuary at an HMO is intimately familiar with your family situation.

And I understand your constitutional concerns about whether the feds should be in the health business, but they are and have been for quite a while, in fact you do business with them, if i recall correctly.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2011, 04:22:03 PM »
Being that it is possible to keep a huge number of brain dead people alive by use of respirators and entubation, at some point someone has to decide whether keeping such persons alive is worth the expense and effort. You could call any group of such people who make these decisions "death panels" if you wished, but it is both inaccurate intended to offend the constituents.

The counseling services mentioned in the ACA Bill are incorrectly described as "death panels".
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2011, 04:29:44 PM »
Perhaps you would like to explain the erroneous conclusions I came to.

I already did, 2 of them in fact, in this thread alone
1) the notion that the title alone apparently was enough for you to conclude I was requiring an apology from Palin bashers, when it was merely rehtorical.  No one expects any Palin basher to apologise to Palin for anything

2) the notion I had no intention of discussing the issue death panels, based on 1 astute criticism, and merely wished to dump on Palin dumpers.  it was a direct criticism of a poster apparently not intent on wanting to discuss the issue.  Subsequent posts, NOT initiated with trying to dump on sirs, were eagerly responded to


So, as you can see, I'm having to spend yet more energy and time in dealing with your erroneous conclusions.  If you persist, then you're approaching that ever famous misrep'ing tact.  So, lemme know when that's going to stop, or simply be patient, until I have time to respond to either your HMO or consitutional references


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2011, 04:33:48 PM »
Being that it is possible to keep a huge number of brain dead people alive by use of respirators and entubation, at some point someone has to decide whether keeping such persons alive is worth the expense and effort.
 .......
The counseling services mentioned in the ACA Bill are incorrectly described as "death panels".


Anyone else catch the transparent irony in the above statement(s)?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2011, 04:39:09 PM »
Being that it is possible to keep a huge number of brain dead people alive by use of respirators and entubation, at some point someone has to decide whether keeping such persons alive is worth the expense and effort.
 .......
The counseling services mentioned in the ACA Bill are incorrectly described as "death panels".


Anyone else catch the transparent irony in the above statement(s)?

From what I can gather the use of the term death panels was a political tactic with the larger aim of trying to kill the "Health Care Bill" 

sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2011, 04:48:55 PM »
Naa, it's more along the lines of truth.....ie the use of Abortion instead of Choice, the use of Death Tax vs Estate Tax.  It's PC to call them anything other than what they are, since the truth paints them as something other than what's desired or acceptable

But what you missed (purposely I'm guessing) was the irony of in 1 breath explaining the need for death panels, while in the next claiming how incorrectly the "counseling" is being cited as such
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2011, 04:56:11 PM »
How would a death panel work differently than an end of life counseling center?

Perhaps if the terms were defined we might have a starting point for discussion.

sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2011, 04:59:08 PM »
How would a death panel work differently than an end of life counseling center?

That's the thing......they wouldn't.  Abortion/Choice, Death Tax/Estate Tax, End of Life Counseling Panel/Death Panel

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2011, 05:05:49 PM »
Administration reverses on death counseling

Reversing a potentially controversial decision, the Obama administration will drop references to end-of-life counseling from the ground rules for Medicare's new annual checkup, the White House said Wednesday.

The latest shift on the sensitive subject comes ahead of a vote next week in the new GOP-led House to repeal President Barack Obama's landmark health care overhaul.

The decision is not likely to have much impact on patients and doctors already discussing options for care in the last stages of life. For example, voluntary end-of-life planning is already covered as part of the "Welcome to Medicare" doctor visit, available to seniors within the first year of joining the program.

The original House version of the overhaul legislation sought to expand coverage, allowing for discussions every few years. But the plan was dropped after Sarah Palin and other Republicans raised the specter of "death panels" deciding the fate of vulnerable seniors. Those charges were later debunked by several non-partisan fact-checking groups.

End-of-life counseling unexpectedly surfaced again late last year in a Medicare regulation that spelled out what would be covered in a new annual checkup, or wellness visit, authorized by the health care law. Issued without fanfare, the regulation said such voluntary doctor-patient discussions could be part of the annual visit.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the administration still supports end-of-life planning, but is pulling the language from the regulation because there wasn't enough chance for all sides to comment on the change. "We did not think that the process (gave) the public an adequate space in a public comment period to debate these kinds of things," Gibbs told reporters.

Discussions about how to face the end of life are already an accepted part of care for people with a terminal illness, and the administration's reversal is unlikely to have much impact on that. Longstanding federal rules require hospital patients to be informed of their right to spell out in a living will or similar document their wishes about being kept alive by machinery if there's no hope for a cure.

However, many doctors and public health advocates believe the government should take a more direct role in encouraging people to plan ahead. They say it would save families the ordeal of having to make agonizing decisions when a loved one is incapacitated.

Opponents counter that such decisions are highly personal, and government should stay out. They worry that explicitly including end-of-life counseling in Medicare rules could send an indirect message that people facing serious illness should be nudged toward hospice care, giving up on seeking a cure.

The new regulation was first reported by The New York Times


Article
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2011, 05:08:00 PM »
How would a death panel work differently than an end of life counseling center?

That's the thing......they wouldn't.  Abortion/Choice, Death Tax/Estate Tax, End of Life Counseling Panel/Death Panel



But in principle you don't have a problem with "death panels" in the private sector?



sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2011, 05:16:03 PM »
Not really, since it's optional.  People can choose to use it, or take their dollars elsewhere.

Also, I have no problem with "death panels", in that I support the notion of folks being fully informed of the status of their loved one, who may be in agony or suffering. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2011, 05:30:24 PM »
Not really, since it's optional.  People can choose to use it, or take their dollars elsewhere.

Also, I have no problem with "death panels", in that I support the notion of folks being fully informed of the status of their loved one, who may be in agony or suffering. 

But you do object to this counseling for seniors enrolled in Medicare?

sirs

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2011, 05:34:49 PM »
I object to Medicare
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: When does Palin get her apologies?
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2011, 05:38:54 PM »
BT would you feel comfortable with a death panel concerning your family
whose makeup was people that were employees of your insurance company?
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