Cops Wound 9

[BSB/Hero/Genius/MovieStar]

It was apparently the cops who wounded nine people near the Empire State Bld. in NYC. After the shooter killed his boss, with whom he had a long standing feud, the cops trying to protect themselves and others wounded 9 trying to put the shooter down.

Gun nuts often say, if someone had had a gun such and such a shooting wouldn't have occurred, or been as bad. Of course that's always been nonsense and this event shows you why.  The answer is not more people carrying guns.


BSB

[Xavier_Onassis]

Gun nuts often say, if someone had had a gun such and such a shooting wouldn't have occurred, or been as bad. Of course that's always been nonsense and this event shows you why.  The answer is not more people carrying guns.
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I think that it is safe to assume that the NYPD officers have better training at using guns than the average NRA pistol packer.

It is difficult to offer any logical commentary on what was done wrong, if anything, without seeing where the shooters and victims were. It is fortunate that these people were wounded, and not killed.

Imagine the scene in the dark Aurora movie theater if everyone had been packing heat.

[Plane]

Gun nuts often say, if someone had had a gun such and such a shooting wouldn't have occurred, or been as bad. Of course that's always been nonsense and this event shows you why.  The answer is not more people carrying gus.......

.............
Imagine the scene in the dark Aurora movie theater if everyone had been packing heat.
[/quote]


Exactly!

In NYNY the shooter had every expectation that he could walk for blocks before he met an armed person, he certainmly knew his boss would be helpless. Just his extreme bad luck that a pair of policemen were nearby.

I note that even though the shooter in Aurora is quite likly insane , he did not take his mayhem anywhere that he could have reasonably expected any return fire.

These things happen at schools , at Post Offices, at Resteraunts that display a no wepons policy ninety percent or better against gun shows , pawn shops , meetings of the NRA etc.

You must abandon prejustice and distrust intuition, the facts are here, the numvber of guns in priviate hands have trippled in twenty years and the numbers of murders have halved in the same period.

[Xavier_Onassis]

 the facts are here, the numvber of guns in priviate hands have trippled in twenty years and the numbers of murders have halved in the same period.

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I really question this. But if it is true, it is simply a coincidence. The population has grown older, and most murders are committed by younger men between 18 and 25.

I have been to many movie theatres and have never seen anyone checked for weapons.

[Plane]

Resolved then, the number of guns in circulation has no direct effect on the number of violent crimes.

the facts are here, the numvber of guns in priviate hands have trippled in twenty years and the numbers of murders have halved in the same period.

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I really question this. But if it is true, it is simply a coincidence. The population has grown older, and most murders are committed by younger men between 18 and 25.

I have been to many movie theatres and have never seen anyone checked for weapons.

[BSB/Hero/Genius/MovieStar]

>>Bottom Line

A clear societal change took place regarding gun ownership in the early 1990s, when the percentage of Americans saying there was a gun in their home or on their property dropped from the low to mid-50s into the low to mid-40s and remained at that level for the next 15 years. Whether this reflected a true decline in gun ownership or a cultural shift in Americans' willingness to say they had guns is unclear. However, the new data suggest that attitudes may again be changing. At 47%, reported gun ownership is the highest it has been in nearly two decades -- a finding that may be related to Americans' dampened support for gun-control laws. However, to ensure that this year's increase reflects a meaningful rebound in reported gun ownership, it will be important to see whether the uptick continues in future polling.<<

www.gallup.com/poll/.../self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx


BTW, who is most likely to own a gun in America? High School only educated southern males. Least likely to own a gun? College educated easterners.  So, dumb Rednecks win the day.


BSB

[Plane]

I respect your words BsB, so tell me whether you would admit to having a gun if you did , or deny the lack if you didn't.

That guns last for decades is inarguable , and that the sale of guns is tracked enough to reviel that sales have been up since Clintons election and up again since Obamas election.

I don't think it is unclear that fewer are willing to admit to gun ownership,this seems quite clear indeed.

Many of us are suspicious of the governments intent when they ask, is it a suprise that this attiitude should be increasing?

[Xavier_Onassis]

No government agency has ever asked me if I owned a gun.

I don't think most gun ownership polls are conducted by any government.

I would think that in speaking to a stranger whose motives one did not know, more would claim that they did own a gun than actually owned one. Why tell a stranger you are not armed? What advantage would there be to that?

[Plane]

No government agency has ever asked me if I owned a gun.

Of course not!

That would not be leagal, thank you NRA!

[Xavier_Onassis]

The NRA will happily sell its subscribers' list to anyone who will pay them, I am sure.

I bought several pairs of green hiking socks and I get catalogs from companies selling ammo, gunsites and camo clothing.

The point is that there are no good reasons to tell any stranger the truth about gun ownership, and good reasons to lie. You would not wish to tell someone who you think might want to steal your guns about all the guns you own. You might wish  to make someone you are wary of believe that you are more armed and dangerous than you really are.

There is no legal obligation to tell any pollster the truth about anything.

[BSB/Hero/Genius/MovieStar]

Plane, according to Gallup the number of guns have not trippled in 20 years and the number of guns did not rise during the Clinton years.


BSB

[sirs]

Going to have to throw a little cold water on the anti self defense contingent.  Putting aside for the moment the continued FACTS that more lives are saved by the use/brandishing of a gun, than those taken, in this country, just because local law enforcment may be shoddy shots, doesn't negate that it was a GUN that stopped this person from doing any more killing.  The idea is to have someone trained to use a firearm, be it law enforcement to reach such a potential mass killing ASAP, or a trained CCW holder, who might be so unlucky to be at the location.  In either case, its highly unlikely foul language is going to stop someone who has already killed with his weapon, so not sure what the point of the article is........disarm the police??

And riddle me this......How can this supposed right wing extremist, homophobic racist, NOT ONLY have gay friends, black friends, and liberal friends, but have had the right to carry a concealed weapon, currently a Sig P228, for over 10 years, in California even, and NEVER ONCE had to pull it, much less use it?? I can't possibly be the exception to the rule, as it relates to supposed gunnuts now, can I

[Plane]

Plane, according to Gallup the number of guns have not trippled in 20 years and the number of guns did not rise during the Clinton years.


BSB

I did expect my estimated numbers to be challenged , thank you BsB.

I am out of time right now , this even I shall endevor to dig up some real numbers.

[Xavier_Onassis]

If the number of guns did not rise in eight years when Clinton was president, then there must have been a gun destroyed (or perhaps exported) for every new gun purchased.

And there surely were many new guns purchased in an eight year period.

I find this unlikely. Guns do not normally wear out, and are expensive enough that people do not normally throw them away.

[Plane]

Gun sales surge after Obama's election


GUN LAWS

November 11, 2008|From Kevin Bohn CNN Senior Producer


Bernie Conatser has never seen business this good

The owner of a gun shop in the Washington suburb of Manassas, Virginia, Conatser said sales have doubled or tripled since this time last year.

On Saturday, he said, he did as much business as he would normally do in a week.

"I have been in business for 12 years, and I was here for Y2K, September 11, Katrina," Conatser said, as a steady stream of customers browsed what remained of his stock. "And all of those were big events, and we did notice a spike in business, but nothing on the order of what we are seeing right now."
 

Weapons dealers in much of the United States are reporting sharply higher sales since Barack Obama won the presidency a week ago.

Buyers and sellers attribute the surge to worries that Obama and a Democratic-controlled Congress will move to restrict firearm ownership, despite the insistence of campaign aides that the president-elect supports gun rights and considers the issue a low priority.

According to FBI figures for the week of November 3 to 9, the bureau received more than 374,000 requests for background checks on gun purchasers -- a nearly 49 percent increase over the same period in 2007. Conatser said his store, Virginia Arms Company, has run out of some models -- such as the AR-15 rifle, the civilian version of the military's M-16 -- and is running low on others.

Such assault weapons are among the firearms that gun dealers and customers say they fear Obama will hit with new restrictions, or even take off the market.

Virginia gun owner Kyle Lewandowski said he was buying a .45-caliber pistol to "hedge my bets."

"Every election year, you have to worry about your rights being eroded a little bit at a time," he said. "I also knew, because of the Democrat majority and because of the election, everybody would have the same reaction I did," he added.

But Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, called the buying spree "goofy." He said widespread talk of banning guns is a "sales pitch."

"With the glacial speed that we make progress on sensible gun laws, savvy gun consumers should know better than to think they have to rush out and buy guns," Hamm said. Similar surges accompanied the election of Bill Clinton, the last Democratic president, he added.

Dealers in Colorado, Ohio, Connecticut and New Hampshire also reported seeing major increases.