Robin Williams

[Christians4LessGvt]

not fair using Michael j. fox as an excuse to not do suicide.

who said that?

And even if they did...

is it "fair" to use very early stage Parkinson's as an excuse for suicide?

when the overwhelming majority of people with that disease dont take the suicide route?

can you quote any legitmate medical source or professional psychological source
that would ok suicide as justified when people have early stage Parkinson's disease?

if not, then why is ok for XO to obviously try and make it as a legitimate exuse?

[kimba1]

as an excuse for a tipping point possible. but note if it`s used as a factor for suicide than attention for a cure would be increased. suicide as a byproduct of depression would mean more attention for treatment for it. note not very much is this talk about preventing people to stop .

[sirs]

I think the general point that C is making is valid.  As much love & laughter Robin has provided this globe, he did commit suicide, for whatever reason he convinced himself that he had to.  We should not be glorifying it or ignoring the addictions he chose to delve into.  No one is perfect, especially liberal comedians, but he also deserves the respect he earned in providing so many with smiles & laughter.  I'm also reminded of the efforts he took to visit our troops and children in hospitals. 

Our society is fascinated with celebrity status, and made more so with untimely celebrity deaths.  Robin is getting all this attention, not so much because of his talent, but because of how many lives he touched, and the world is a little bit darker with his loss.  That doesn't equate or justify the 24/7 coverage of his death and the circumstances around it, but it does help explain it

[Xavier_Onassis]

I reject the concept that a person needs to justify his suicide to the world in any way. It is the most personal decision anyone can make, and I do not see how anyone needs "Christians" permission or anyone's to justify it.

Michael J. Fox is not Robin Williams or Ernest Hemingway.

All I can say is that I doubt that I would commit suicide under the same conditions. But I am not manic depressive.

No one needs an "excuse" to commit suicide, just as no one needs a hall pass to visit city hall.

[sirs]

Who's trying to "justify suicide"??  Or even requires anyone's permission??   

[Plane]

    That is an interesting question to ask.

     Does a person have a right to his own suicide?

       The Culture of the US has long been set to discourage suicide ,with much opprobrium applied.

       Some cultures , like traditional Japan , or Imperial Rome, considered suicide a legitimate solution for certain sorts of problem.

        How is suicide ,in practice , forbidden?
         

           I don't like suicide , but I am ambivalent about how far the state or culture should go in making it hard to do or how to apply opprobrium.

[sirs]

No, they don't have a "right", but then can do anything they want....to themselves.  Suicide is considered the most selfish thing a person can do to themself.  And when you consider that its deemed illegal to commit suicide, not to mention how it generally voids life insurance plans, the answer to if suicide is a "right", unless someone can point it out in the Constitution some where, would appear to be a "no"

[Plane]

   There are rights not mentioned in the constitution.


    Like a right to privacy.

     Is there no right to choose suicide?

[sirs]

No, you don't have a "right", but you can chose to do anything you want to your body.  Ingesting Heroin isn't a right, but you are perfectly within your perrogative to do it.  You don't have a right to a porterhouse steak, but you definately have the freedom to eat one

[Plane]

  This makes me wonder if we mean the same thing when we say the word "right".

[Xavier_Onassis]

Whether suicide is selfish or not depends entirely on the circumstances. The Church makes a big deal of the afterlife, but if people were  to off themselves to get to the next life, that would be economically disastrous for the Church, so they have to preach against it.

Was Hitler's suicide selfish? How about Hemingway's?  I do not see where suicide is necessarily selfish.

It is not something I am contemplating, because I enjoy being alive.

I think the Theme song from mash was a good take on the subject.

Suicide is Painless.
Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
[REFRAIN]:
That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.
I try to find a way to make
All our little joys relate
Without that ever-present hate
But now I know that it's too late, and...
[REFRAIN]
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say.
[REFRAIN]
The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I'm beat
And to another give my seat
For that's the only painless feat.
[REFRAIN]
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but...
[REFRAIN]
A brave man once requested me
To answer questions that are key
Is it to be or not to be
And I replied 'oh why ask me?'
[REFRAIN]
'Cause suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.
...and you can do the same thing if you please.
Songwriters: MANDEL, JOHNNY / ALTMAN, MICHAEL B

[Plane]

...., but if people were  to off themselves to get to the next life, that would be economically disastrous for the Church,....

Is that the key?  That death is a disaster to community even if it is welcomed by an individual?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The death of SOME people might be a disaster to the community, but other people's demise might bring improvements.

It is certain, however, that the dead will not be putting money in the Church's collection plate.

I recall reading about a Gnostic movement related to Christianity in Egypt whose members included suicide as a ritual.
Of course, a church whose members off themselves in great numbers will not be around for long.

[Plane]

   Taxpayers should stay alive too.

     Government does for you now what the church did 500 years ago.

[Christians4LessGvt]

I reject the concept that a person needs to justify his suicide to the world in any way. It is the most personal decision anyone can make, No one needs an "excuse" to commit suicide, just as no one needs a hall pass to visit city hall.

Again....can you quote any legitimate medical source or professional
psychological source that would ok or advocate suicide for any reason?