Author Topic: "Confederate Flag"  (Read 4176 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2015, 08:07:13 PM »
President Andrew Jackson died in 1847, way before the Fort Pillow massacre.
Your knowledge of history is seriously flawed.

President Andrew Johnson

http://teva.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/johnson/id/1
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2015, 08:30:06 PM »
Johnson, Jackson, they were all the same, weren't they?

The fact is that the Black soldiers were massacred. And of course, they were Black, and did not count, so rather than prosecute Forrest for his massacre they decided to claim that it was all okay, because it was a war, and the relatives of the massacred Blacks were unlikely to raise a fuss.

But the fact remains that Natan Bedford Forrest was a vile and reprehensible person who founded the Klan and once made his living trading in slaves.
Why does he deserve to have a heroic stature in any public place?

This happened in Tennessee, Andrew Johnson's home state. Sherman was from Louisiana, and although he fought for the Union, that does not mean that he thought Black soldiers had rights or that massacring them was all that bad a thing. The hearing was just another whitewash. The War was overand no one wanted to even think about all the atrocities anymore.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2015, 08:41:22 PM »
........................ Sherman was from Louisiana, .....

Ohio?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2015, 11:42:31 AM »
Ohio?

Yes XO is wrong once again in this thread.

William Tecumseh Sherman was not from Louisiana, he was from Ohio.

For a guy that boasted "every damned thing I said about Forrest was true"
and proven wrong....another mistake about Sherman is not surprising

We can pretend Sherman was less brutal than Forrest if we want to.
Sherman was not an abolitionist and did not believe in "Negro equality".
During the Civil War, Sherman declined to employ black troops in his armies.
But of course that's all ok with the race-baiters!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2015, 12:04:27 PM »
Johnson, Jackson, they were all the same, weren't they?

Louisiana, Ohio, they are all the same, aren't they?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2015, 12:27:21 PM »
Sherman was not opposed to slavery and he was in charge of a military Academy in Louisiana.
The issue here is that refusal to prosecute Forrest for his war crimes were professional courtesy, because manking noce with the Confederate generals was considered more important than prosecuting the murder of Black soldiers.

In 1859, Sherman accepted a job as the first superintendent of the Louisiana State Seminary of Learning & Military Academy in Pineville, a position he sought at the suggestion of Major D. C. Buell and secured because of General George Mason Graham.[26] He proved an effective and popular leader of that institution, which would later become Louisiana State University (LSU).[27] Colonel Joseph P. Taylor, the brother of the late President Zachary Taylor, declared that "if you had hunted the whole army, from one end of it to the other, you could not have found a man in it more admirably suited for the position in every respect than Sherman."[28]

Although his brother John was well known as an antislavery congressman, Sherman did not oppose slavery and was sympathetic to Southerners' defense of the institution. He opposed, however, any attempt at dissolving the Union.[29] On hearing of South Carolina's secession from the United States, Sherman observed to a close friend, Professor David F. Boyd of Virginia, an enthusiastic secessionist:
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2015, 01:41:11 PM »
I suppose that subconsciously CU4 points out that President Obama does not satisfy his criteria for and "authentic" African-American is his justification for hating Obama without having to realize that he is a racist. But then, he also seems to hate Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan as well.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2015, 03:10:09 PM »
I suppose that subconsciously CU4 points out that President Obama does not satisfy his criteria for and "authentic" African-American is his justification for hating Obama without having to realize that he is a racist. But then, he also seems to hate Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan as well.

What I "hate" is their race-baiting leftism that uses race in an vile manner to divide people to help further their welfare pimp agendas.

Mr. Race-baiter (XO)...skin color has ZERO to do with it....because if it did why would love I love Clarence Thomas, Dr. Thomas Sowell, JC Watts, Dr. Ben Carson, Congresswoman Mia Love, Condi Rice, Allen West, and Walter Williams? Any of them I would happily vote for in a Presidential race.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 11:45:49 PM by Christians4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2015, 03:19:10 PM »
Brilliant Summation!!  Is Dr. Carson related to Plane?  This is the kind of stuff that I marvel at Plane, when he provides such a simple and precise portrayel of current reality
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2015, 03:54:44 PM »
Ben Carson is clearly a nut.

I wonder if perhaps a compromise is possible.

Bury Nathan Bedford Forrest on Ben Carson's front lawn. Or perhaps Clarence Thomas' front lawn.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2015, 04:02:16 PM »
Couldn't refute the premise now, could you.  No surprise there, just launch right into the name calling.  priceless
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2015, 11:36:34 PM »
Why does the guy who started the KKK need to be honored in a public park?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2015, 12:27:10 AM »
Why does the guy who started the KKK need to be honored in a public park?

    There should be a statue of Peter the Great?

   You gotta make your hand of what you are dealt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrcUziDUBqY

http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/opinion/2015/07/16/rep-holt-nathan-forrest-one-souths-first-civil-rights-leaders/30246083/
Quote
...After a speech that championed equality, unity and love, a large crowd of blacks roared with applause; a young black girl presented Gen. Forrest with a bouquet of flowers, for which he thanked her with kiss on the cheek.

...............By the will of his own conscious, not the force of government, Nathan Bedford Forrest exemplified redemption, love, compassion and reconciliation.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 12:33:45 AM by Plane »

Plane

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2015, 01:02:38 AM »
Quote
When Robert E. Lee surrendered to Grant in April, Forrest surrendered as well, declaring that, “any man who is in favor of a further prosecution of this war is a fit subject for a lunatic asylum.”
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/biographies/nathan-bedford-forrest.html

Quote
After the war, Forrest is best known as having been a prominent figure in the foundation of the Ku Klux Klan, a group composed of mostly Confederate veterans committed to violent intimidation of blacks, northerners and republicans.  He was “Grand Wizard” until he ordered the dissolution of the organization in 1869.


Quote
So closely is Forrest's name associated with the Klan, in fact, that he is sometimes incorrectly referred to as its founder. ....
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/palmsprings_200801A41.html
Quote
Robert E. Lee and William Tecumseh Sherman called him the most remarkable man, and finest soldier, produced by the war.

Quote
In the spring of 1864, low on provisions, Forrest attacked and captured Fort Pillow, a garrison north of Memphis. The incident became perhaps the most controversial military action in the Civil War, as Forrest had at his command more than twice as many soldiers as were occupying the fort, about half of whom were recently freed slaves. Surrounded and outnumbered, the Union forces declined to surrender, and, typically, Forrest was ruthless. His men overran Fort Pillow, taking few prisoners. The Union called the battle a massacre. Forrest would later appear before Congress to defend himself against charges of war crimes, and though he was found not guilty, he was known to many, for the rest of his life, as the Butcher of Fort Pillow.


Quote
After only a year as Grand Wizard, in January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve — in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school — and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan. A new, different, and much worse Klan would emerge, 35 years after Forrest's death,....

Really, is a man who halted the Klan and kept it halted as long as he lived worthy of NO honor?

N B Forest was a rough and violent man, but much more intelligent than most, His efforts to reign in the Klan and encourage peaceful submission to federal authority shouldn't be forgotten by anyone who wants wars to end in peace rather than continuing war.

hnumpah

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Re: "Confederate Flag"
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2015, 01:16:10 AM »
Really, is a man who halted the Klan and kept it halted as long as he lived worthy of NO honor?

N B Forest was a rough and violent man, but much more intelligent than most, His efforts to reign in the Klan and encourage peaceful submission to federal authority shouldn't be forgotten by anyone who wants wars to end in peace rather than continuing war.

Don't feel bad, Plane. Jacksonville, FL recently bowed to pressue and renamed Nathan Bedford Forrest High School, though the town itself is named after one of the most racist presidents we ever had.
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