Author Topic: "jingoes playing jailor in non-fatal ways."  (Read 849 times)

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Michael Tee

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"jingoes playing jailor in non-fatal ways."
« on: May 16, 2007, 12:55:35 AM »
Just so that we can debate facts here (as opposed to debating bullshit) we might as well get to know some of the "non-fatal ways" in which "jingoes" are "playing jailor".

<<Report probes US custody deaths
<<Almost 100 prisoners have died in US custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since August 2002, according to US group <<Human Rights First.

<<The details were first aired on BBC television's Newsnight programme.
<<Of the 98 deaths, at least 34 were suspected or confirmed homicides, the programme said.
<<The Pentagon told Newsnight it had not seen the report but took allegations of maltreatment "very seriously" and would prosecute if necessary. [MT comment: the actual report shows what a total joke this Pentagon comment is; it's hilarious.]

<<The report, which is to be published on Wednesday, draws on information from Pentagon and other official US sources.
From BBC News Tuesday, 21 February 2006, 23:26 GMT

For the actual report:
HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST  http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06221-etn-hrf-dic-rep-web.pdf

For a little perspective: on May 5, 2004, the Beeb had a similar story with somewhat lower numbers; the sub-headline THEN was "US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has promised that any Americans abusing Iraqi prisoners will be punished. "

I kid you not.  Check it out.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3684381.stm

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4738008.stm

domer

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Re: "jingoes playing jailor in non-fatal ways."
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 01:48:51 AM »
My comments in the other thread were obviously aimed at Abu Ghraib. The statistics you cite are troublesome but unexplained. 34 are suspected homicides? When were the deadly (homicidal) blows inflicted, and what was the nature of the wounds? You ignore this. Soo too, who was the agent of any homicides that were indeed committed? I refer directly to prisoner-on-prisoner violence, which would seem as likely in Iraqi prisons as anywhere else and maybe moreso given the sunni-Shiite hatred. But I'll wait to see the news coverage of the report you're promising. To the extent there is culpability on American shoulders, those responsible should be and will be treated as the common criminals that they are.

Michael Tee

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Re: "jingoes playing jailor in non-fatal ways."
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2007, 07:19:27 AM »
<<My comments in the other thread were obviously aimed at Abu Ghraib.>>

You picked a good example.  I'm sure you know that less than 10% of the available photos and videos taken at Abu Ghraib have been released by the Pentagon to this day.  The ones that did get released were all of the "non-fatal" kind that lent themselves to portrayals of "frat boy pranks" by right-wing commentators.

<< The statistics you cite are troublesome but unexplained. >>

OF COURSE they're "unexplained."  Did you even bother to read the report that I linked to?  It would have given you some inkling of the stone wall of bureaucratic and administrative obstruction that the investigators ran into.  Bodies withheld for three months; internal organs destroyed; CIA investigations of cases involving Army Special Forces or Navy SEALS in which all significant portions are "classified" including such key details as whether or not water was used in the interrogation of the deceased; destruction of evidence (example - - a hyoid bone gone missing in the investigation of a suspected strangulation.  The CIA investigations are farcical in nature - - WATER is a classified top-secret weapon?  Hyoid bones gone missing?

Either you just didn't bother to read the report you are commenting on, or you have chosen to view the facts the same way that the Sheriff's Department of Neshoba County, Mississippi would have seen the "unexplained" death of a "Negro" adolescent male found dead three months after he was last seen being removed from the county jail at midnight by a drunken crowd of local white citizens.  That Sheriff's Department would have had just as tough a time as you seem to have in explaining the death.  No smoking gun, I guess.  For some guys, there never is.

"Troublesome" BTW is a good adjective.  How would you describe the "statistics" out of Auschwitz?  "Deeply disturbing?"

<<34 are suspected homicides? When were the deadly (homicidal) blows inflicted, and what was the nature of the wounds? You ignore this. >>

I ignore this?  Read the fucking report for Christ sake!  YOU ignore this.  There's a couple dozen case studies more or less.  What fucking gall.

<<So too, who was the agent of any homicides that were indeed committed? I refer directly to prisoner-on-prisoner violence, which would seem as likely in Iraqi prisons as anywhere else and maybe moreso given the sunni-Shiite hatred. >>

Yeah, that's brilliant, Einstein.  They're kept in isolation from one another so they can't discuss their interrogations with each other and make up the same bullshit stories, but then they're all mixed into two-man holding cells purely at random from which only one guy comes out alive.  Thirty-four different times.

<<But I'll wait to see the news coverage of the report you're promising. To the extent there is culpability on American shoulders, those responsible should be and will be treated as the common criminals that they are.>>

That's hilarious.  The report actually tells you EXACTLY how they're treated in the odd case where they ARE found guilty.  The quality of justice in American military courts is nothing if not merciful.

domer, please:  JUST READ THE FUCKING REPORT.

Michael Tee

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Re: "jingoes playing jailor in non-fatal ways."
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2007, 07:25:22 AM »
from the report -
Command.s Responsibility documents a dozen brutal deaths as the result
of the most horrific treatment. One such incident would be an isolated
transgression; two would be a serious problem; a dozen of them is policy.
The law of military justice has long recognized that military leaders are
held responsible for the conduct of their troops. Yet this report also
documents that no civilian official or officer above the rank of major
responsible for interrogation and detention practices has been charged in
connection with the torture or abuse-related death of a detainee in U.S.
custody. And the highest punishment for anyone handed down in the case
of a torture-related death has been five months in jail.
This is not
accountability as we know it in the United States.

John D. Hutson
Rear Admiral (Ret.), JAGC, USN  - and . . .

The torture and death catalogued in excruciating detail by this important
Human Rights First report did not happen spontaneously. They are the
consequence of a shocking breakdown of command discipline on the part
of the Army.s Officer Corps. It is very clear that cruel treatment of
detainees became a common Army practice because generals and
colonels and majors allowed it to occur, even encouraged it.
What is
unquestionably broken is the fundamental principle of command
accountability, and that starts at the very top. The Army exists, not just to
win America.s wars, but to defend America.s values. The policy and
practice of torture without accountability has jeopardized both.
 
David R. Irvine
Brig. Gen. (Ret.) USA