"Compensatory Opportunites" ??

[Michael Tee]

<<Well, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it's "cool" among the young black community to make poor grades in school and get involved with illegal drugs.>>

Yes, and why is that?

[Amianthus]

I'm in agreement ami.  How do we fix this?  Our answers thusfar seem only to perpetuate the problem.

Until attitudes change, not much. Look at what happened with Bill Cosby when he suggested making changes.

[Michael Tee]

<<They are in there for the same reasons the Black inmates are in there. They did it.>>

Brilliant analysis.  Everyone's in prison for committing a crime.  Shit, I thought most of them were taking a shortcut to church when the doors slammed shut on them by accident.   Now I realize they're all nothing but a bunch of fucking criminals.   Wow.

The point is to recognize how many people are out of jail because (a) the cops declined to prosecute them, (b) the prosecutor dropped the case or pled them out with a walk or (c) their high-price lawyer got 'em off.

The issue isn't why these guys are in jail, it's why so many whites get passes and so many blacks don't.

[Xavier_Onassis]

For about four years, I taught classes at Dede Correctional, an average security (neither minimum nor maximum) facility in South Dade County. Most of the inmates were ineligible for the college degree program, because they lacked a HS diploma or GED, so we got the best prepared of the population, and those who actually were most sincere about trying to make a go of it once they were out. About 45% of those in the program were White, about 55% Black, and of the White and Blacks, about 40% were Hispanic.

The vast majority were in jail because of something dealing with drugs, most often small-time streetcorner hoods, many of whom were caught doing something else (driving someone else's car without permission, boosting stolen merchandise, etc.) and then were discovered to be holding drugs in quantities greater than those one might carry around for personal use. It seemed to me that they had generally gotten away with a lot of crime before they did something amazingly stupid and got busted. ( I am reminded of the show COPS, in which the criminals are incredibly stupid, and the cops in question should all be subjected to the sort of dumbassed smartalek remarks that they seem to pride themselves on). Generally, they complained that the specific crime they were stopped for that led to their bust was not one they were actually guilty of, and all seemed to feel that they were in jail so as to support a large number of wardens, jailers, drug cops, prosecutors and judges which everyone would be better off without.

We have far too many people incarcerated in the US- more than anywhere else of the planet. I think the problem is that we place far too much emphasis on people who use drugs to escape reality, and we'd be a lot better off to treat drug addiction as a medical, rather than a criminal problem, since at the root of it, cocaine and heroin addictions are medical diseases that can be treated clinically a lot more effectively by doctors than by jailers. Marijuana is not much of a threat to anyone, other than as a lung irritant, and decriminalizing it would also be the best way to proceed.

Rape, burglarly, theft of all types seem to be more often drug-related than not.

[Rich]

>>The issue isn't why these guys are in jail, it's why so many whites get passes and so many blacks don't.<<

Well Uncle Mike, how many Whites do get passes, and how many Blacks don't?

[Michael Tee]

<<Well Uncle Mike, how many Whites do get passes, and how many Blacks don't?>>

I dunno.  In the Toronto Star survey, it was three times as many whites as blacks getting passes, but I don't remember the totals, it was the ratios that were the significant part of the study anyway.

[Rich]

>>I dunno.<<

If you don't know, how can you make such a blanket statement? What's the evidence?

[yellow_crane]

<<Fatman has a point.>>

Hey, I agreed with Fatman.

<<Rich guy hires a lawyer poor guy pleas.>>

So many rich guys are white, so many poor guys are black.  Coincidence, I'm sure.

<<Wonder what percentage of crimes are drug related.>>

Wonder how many of the drug-related crimes are victimless.  Also wonder how many white kids busted for drugs go on to trial as opposed to black kids busted for drugs.  There were actually studies conducted in Ontario showing that police are three times more likely to send a black kid to trial on drug possession charges than a white kid.  But I guess you Americans have gotten past all that, haven't you?

Being rich works for blackpeople too.

As an experiment lets have an open society where little is forbidden to say and do and the possibility of wealth generation has no limit then start seveal diffrent groups off at diffrent levels of wealth in the beginning, see how long (how many generations) are require for the disprate groups to diffuse into one another and across the scale of wealth possession.

There are at this point just as many poor white people as there are poor black people .

I do not know if your figure stated here is accurate, but there is a larger observation.

It is a very good thing for those few who now control more and more of the money that those two elements, both having poorness or poverty as their common denominator, are divided.

Divided they will not stand, but united they would.  Divided they are controllable, and provide little threat.  United is another bear, much less teddy.

Smart folks, those, keeping us divided on racial issues.

I see a day when that manipulated division will fall.

Not to over-squeeze the claim, but South Carolina, of all places, has become a cog in that wheel now.

Has the dying beast suddenly blinked?

And Bill Clinton, now recognized for his efforts to divide along racial lines, however subtly attempted, may have helped bring that day sooner than later.

The hipster making all a little hipper. 

Toni Morrison now an unplayed violin.

He may also have shitcanned Hillary's chances to let him run the country again, however unofficially.

Everywhere, from little nowheres, little bubbles of hope for change are coming to the top.  The grass roots are starting to sing.

Poor Domer.

What a cold, unfair conflict for him now has to be the division of his precious, heartfilled tout of the commodity of simple and real hope, and juxtapositioned in conflict rather than tied in unity with that well of hope is the exposed decadence of Democratic Party conventionality, here portrayed in front of the footlights but poorly, scripted by Bill, mimed by Hillary, and panned by critics suddenly awakened from their usually banal, routine criticisms.

[Michael Tee]

<<If you don't know, how can you make such a blanket statement? What's the evidence?>>

The evidence is the incarceration rates themselves.  Either the system is so economically inequitable that it forces blacks into doing more crimes than whites, or the crime rates are equal between the races but the whites' economic advantage gets more of them off, or the black male is inherently more criminally inclined than the white male and therefore not only commits more crimes but would commit more crimes even if playing on a level economic playing field.  So take your pick:
(a) systemic economic inequality;
(b) systemic legal inequality (deriving from economic inequality); or
(c) racial inferiority;

I pick a combination of (a) and (b); a racist and fascist like you would have to either pick (c) or deny the inequality of incarceration rates.

that's why I laugh whenever a FACT comes up that you try to spin around, weave around, get over, get under . . . and of course you can't.  The inequalities even today in the American social fabric are gigantic, they stem directly from the institutions of slavery and white racism, in in the midst of a forest of denial stands this huge boulder, this gigantic rock that just ain't goin' nowhere, the incarceration rates of black Americans and white Americans.  So, uh, just out of curiosity . . . how DO you plan to explain them?

[Rich]

Well Mike, a dumass fuck (name pre-approved by brass) like your commie self has no other way to reason other than the standard racist, fascist playbook. It can't be their fault now can it Mikey. They're to inferior to be responsible for their crimes huh? If they'd just stay on the leftist plantation and take what you benevolent White Liberal hand to them they wouldn't be in prison would they. It must be unfair, because live is unfair to you, right Uncle Mike? Shit Uncle Mike, you know as much about the Prison population as you do about Fascism...nothing.

When the revolution comes Uncle Mike and his blood thirsty followers (all 100 of them) will set things right. You'll make sure they do as they're told won't you Uncle Mike. Keep 'em steppin' and fetchen on the plantation.

Or you just must line them up and shoot them, right? I mean after 60 million, what's a few million more?

[Plane]

I do not know if your figure stated here is accurate, but there is a larger observation.

It is a very good thing for those few who now control more and more of the money that those two elements, both having poorness or poverty as their common denominator, are divided.

Divided they will not stand, but united they would.  Divided they are controllable, and provide little threat.  United is another bear, much less teddy.

Smart folks, those, keeping us divided on racial issues.

I see a day when that manipulated division will fall.

Not to over-squeeze the claim, but South Carolina, of all places, has become a cog in that wheel now.

Has the dying beast suddenly blinked?

And Bill Clinton, now recognized for his efforts to divide along racial lines, however subtly attempted, may have helped bring that day sooner than later.

The hipster making all a little hipper. 

Toni Morrison now an unplayed violin.

He may also have shitcanned Hillary's chances to let him run the country again, however unofficially.

Everywhere, from little nowheres, little bubbles of hope for change are coming to the top.  The grass roots are starting to sing.

Poor Domer.

What a cold, unfair conflict for him now has to be the division of his precious, heartfilled tout of the commodity of simple and real hope, and juxtapositioned in conflict rather than tied in unity with that well of hope is the exposed decadence of Democratic Party conventionality, here portrayed in front of the footlights but poorly, scripted by Bill, mimed by Hillary, and panned by critics suddenly awakened from their usually banal, routine criticisms.

I like the way you write , symetry and layers and allusions ,

... but I remember Domer going on record as an Obama supporter , why would recent events bother him?

[Michael Tee]

<<It can't be their fault now can it Mikey. >>

No, I think circumstances ganged up on them.  They started out in life with too many strikes against them, no proper parenting, no guidance, no opportunities, and what you see is what you get.  It's a miracle that some of them found the way out, they would all have an excuse if they didn't. 

<<They're to inferior to be responsible for their crimes huh?>>

Nope, whites raised the same way would contribute the same numbers to the inmate population.

<< If they'd just stay on the leftist plantation and take what you benevolent White Liberal hand to them they wouldn't be in prison would they. >>

There is no leftist plantation.  Exists only in your diseased mind.

<<It must be unfair, because live is unfair to you, right Uncle Mike? >>

Life's been more than fair to me, Rich.  I started out with advantages that I don't think one in a hundred black inmates would have had.  So did you, if I'm not mistaken.

<<Shit Uncle Mike, you know as much about the Prison population as you do about Fascism...nothing.>>

I know.  That's why I come to this forum, Rich, so I can learn from the real experts.  Guys like you.  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When the revolution comes Uncle Mike and his blood thirsty followers (all 100 of them) will set things right. You'll make sure they do as they're told won't you Uncle Mike. Keep 'em steppin' and fetchen on the plantation.

Or you just must line them up and shoot them, right? I mean after 60 million, what's a few million more?

[Plane]

...Nope, whites raised the same way would contribute the same numbers to the inmate population.

There was a time when chain gangs did the work of the county and state , and when offenders were scarce arrests for smaller offenses became more common till quotas were filled.

In those days Families clung close together because the family members needed each other , it really was them against the world.

Black families (my father told me from first hand observation) were especially close and tended to gather their resources to get things done.

Things have become less blatantly unfair and precarious , wealth is easier than it used to be to find , and an illusion pervades the society black white and otherwise that families don't need to stay together and help one another. I think this is an illusion and that threats are still out there in the world , but they are more subtle .

[Rich]

Dispensing with Uncle Mike for a moment, we all know income has nothing to do with crime. To folks like Mike, blacks are preordained to be criminal because life is "stacked against them." They don't have a choice, because they're Black. They aren't capable of doing anything else, because they're Black. To Uncle Mike, the White man is wholly evil and delights in the natural condition of Black folks and does everything they can to keep them poor, drug addicted, and in jail.

Who do we really blame here? Afterall, the justice system sees a Black person and since they can't linch them outright, simply gives the good defense lawyers to the White folk, and gives the incompetent ones to the lowly Black folk because afterall, they don't know any better do they.

Brother ...

If you've ever visited a prison (I have), you know that the vast majority of inmates, White, Black, or Hispanic, are almost always poor, come from broken homes, and are gang affiliated. Almost all of them are repeat offenders, and they all DID IT. Once again, these aren't your short timers, under a year, these are people who are doing serious time for serious crimes.

So if you want to be a good communist and repeat what they want you to hear, believe Uncle Mike; Blacks are in jail because the White man, the Conservative White man, wants them there and they can't help themselves simply because they're Black and can't figure out how to avoid prison. Why not? Would a communist lie?

 

[Cynthia]

For about four years, I taught classes at Dede Correctional, an average security (neither minimum nor maximum) facility in South Dade County. Most of the inmates were ineligible for the college degree program, because they lacked a HS diploma or GED, so we got the best prepared of the population, and those who actually were most sincere about trying to make a go of it once they were out. About 45% of those in the program were White, about 55% Black, and of the White and Blacks, about 40% were Hispanic.

The vast majority were in jail because of something dealing with drugs, most often small-time streetcorner hoods, many of whom were caught doing something else (driving someone else's car without permission, boosting stolen merchandise, etc.) and then were discovered to be holding drugs in quantities greater than those one might carry around for personal use. It seemed to me that they had generally gotten away with a lot of crime before they did something amazingly stupid and got busted. ( I am reminded of the show COPS, in which the criminals are incredibly stupid, and the cops in question should all be subjected to the sort of dumbassed smartalek remarks that they seem to pride themselves on). Generally, they complained that the specific crime they were stopped for that led to their bust was not one they were actually guilty of, and all seemed to feel that they were in jail so as to support a large number of wardens, jailers, drug cops, prosecutors and judges which everyone would be better off without.

We have far too many people incarcerated in the US- more than anywhere else of the planet. I think the problem is that we place far too much emphasis on people who use drugs to escape reality, and we'd be a lot better off to treat drug addiction as a medical, rather than a criminal problem, since at the root of it, cocaine and heroin addictions are medical diseases that can be treated clinically a lot more effectively by doctors than by jailers. Marijuana is not much of a threat to anyone, other than as a lung irritant, and decriminalizing it would also be the best way to proceed.

Rape, burglarly, theft of all types seem to be more often drug-related than not.

I agree, XO.
Our previous Governor wanted to legalize Marijuana but it didn't fly.


The vast majority were in jail because of something dealing with drugs, most often small-time streetcorner hoods, many of whom were caught doing something else (driving someone else's car without permission, boosting stolen merchandise, etc.) and then were discovered to be holding drugs in quantities greater than those one might carry around for personal use. It seemed to me that they had generally gotten away with a lot of crime before they did something amazingly stupid and got busted. ( I am reminded of the show COPS, in which the criminals are incredibly stupid, and the cops in question should all be subjected to the sort of dumbassed smartalek remarks that they seem to pride themselves on).


The students I have who are children of gang members have little chance in heck of making a future for themselves from the start....so of course they are going to end up in the situation you speak of here. ...they are raised in an environment of such reality and have been given very little else in terms of stability and livlihood....

I still say we must try harder to give these  "future criminals" and gang bangers a chance to make something of themselves before it's too late...instead of giving up on them and sending them to BD classes or D homes. Pre pre teen....3.4th graders need to have major intervention...but I hear of no candidate to reply to such a need. Crime costs us all.

Anyway....I think that we have to try something different...the same crap is happening all over the country and our jails are taxed along with our wallets. 

It's a tough job to reach those kids/families...but if we tried harder, perhaps the