Author Topic: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing  (Read 27377 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2008, 12:18:25 PM »
<<Looseing Iraq to Al Queda or Iran would be the most expensive result possible from the choices we make in the next few years. If we leave but have to go back , it will not be so easy next time.>>

I find that "have to go back" intriguing.  Under what circumstances would the United States of America "have" to go back to Iraq?

What kind of imperative could possibly exist for invading a small country thousands of miles away which has absolutely zero realistic capacity of ever attacking you?  Or do you people just never learn?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2008, 12:21:42 PM »
I find that "have to go back" intriguing.  Under what circumstances would the United States of America "have" to go back to Iraq?

I agree Michael thats just a lie some elected offcials on the Left use to pretend
they are not "cut and runners". People like Murtha "oh we'll redeploy and be ready
closeby if needed". What a bunch of BS.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2008, 12:30:35 PM »
<<People like Murtha "oh we'll redeploy and be ready
closeby if needed". What a bunch of BS.>>

Like Murtha?  OBAMA'S saying pretty much the same shit.  Out-ruckin-FAY-jiss.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2008, 12:33:58 PM »
What kind of imperative could possibly exist for invading a small country thousands of miles away which has absolutely zero realistic capacity of ever attacking you?  Or do you people just never learn?


Gulf War I was for the money: we got the Arabs and the Kuwaitis, the Japanese and the Europeans to pay for that one. It took the Emir of Kuwait down a notch or two, as he was getting uppity ad threatening to move his money,

Gulf War II seems to be for the show, as in "We sure showed thet Ay-Rab Saddam a thing or two."

Gulf War III, if Elvis' paen to his celestial hued footwear has any relevance here, would be "Go, cat go".



I think "they never learn" is the operative term here.

Gulf War I was provoked when Olebush told his ambassador April Glespie (who we have never heard from since) to tell Saddam that"The US does not take any position on the borders of Middle Eastern countries", knowing that to Saddam it  meant "Invade at will".

The Kuwaitis were drilling diagonally under Iraqi oil deposits, with the help of American companies, like well, Halliburton.

The Oligarchy knows what this was all about, and it is and has always been money. Our money, paid at the pump and sent on to the oil companies and their Arab buddies that ends up in their hands. They have made a mighty killing selling arms and all manner of crap to the Iraqis, Kuwaitis, Saudis and others.

Our troops have been among those killed.

We have the manipulative oligarchy that gets their minions elected and our people propagandized, and we have the saps that somehow believe that all this has been for the greater good of all Americans.

And elect more ancient warriors, who will call for yet more wars.

What the hell, them dead Americans, they are just ignorant inbred hillbillies. That is what Dick Cheney thinks, isn't it? Might as well put 'em to good use. We already stripmined their farms, so they can't grow taters and ramps no more.

One cannot underestimate the stupidity of the American people, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 12:37:59 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2008, 12:44:49 PM »
<<One cannot underestimate the stupidity of the American people, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken.>>

Thought it was P.T. Barnum, "No man ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the average American."

Amianthus

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2008, 01:25:58 PM »
What the hell, them dead Americans, they are just ignorant inbred hillbillies. That is what Dick Cheney thinks, isn't it? Might as well put 'em to good use. We already stripmined their farms, so they can't grow taters and ramps no more.

That sounds more like Obama or Mikey T.

I had never heard of a ramp farm - everyone I know of that eats 'em picks 'em wild. However, I did google it, and there is ONE ramp farm. "Hello, we are Glen and Norene Facemire, and we have the distinction of having the only ramp farm in the world. We are located on the north slope in the quaint little town of Richwood, along the prominent trout stream of the South Fork of the Cherry River."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2008, 02:05:08 PM »
"I thought he was criticizing me for saying that McCain was
hiding lobbyists in his ample cheeks, as a squirrel carries acorns"


nObama will raise more from special interests than McCain
Isn't nObama just taking special interest money now?

XO we can end lobbyist by shrinking gvt
You dont lobby what doesn't exist
If we abolish most of the Fed Gvt I promise you there will be a lot less lobbyists.
Shrink gvt = shrink lobby power
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2008, 02:50:25 PM »
If we abolish most of the Fed Gvt I promise you there will be a lot less lobbyists.

===============================================================
Yeah, and if your grandmother had wheels, she's be a bicycle. Get real.


No one is going to do this. Not even the Libertarians could do it. Not that anyone is going to elect Bob Bar, Ron Paul or any other of them.

I wrote Reagan with a clever plan to do just this, back in 1980. I suggested moving the national capital to Juneau, Alaska, where there is absolutely no room for growth between the glaciers and the sea. He did not even bother to thank me. He was not sincere about shrinking the government, and neither is anyone else.

McCain will grow the government and is likely to start more wars. He is the son and grandson and great grandson of warmongers, just as Juniorbush was the son and grandson of thieving wheeler-dealers.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 09:31:17 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2008, 05:20:24 PM »
<<One cannot underestimate the stupidity of the American people, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken.>>

Thought it was P.T. Barnum, "No man ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the average American."

====================================
P. T. Barnum was famous for saying "There's one born every minute", the "one" being a sucker.

H. L. Mencken's most famous quote was, "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people".


 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2008, 05:45:36 PM »
<<Looseing Iraq to Al Queda or Iran would be the most expensive result possible from the choices we make in the next few years. If we leave but have to go back , it will not be so easy next time.>>

I find that "have to go back" intriguing.  Under what circumstances would the United States of America "have" to go back to Iraq?

What kind of imperative could possibly exist for invading a small country thousands of miles away which has absolutely zero realistic capacity of ever attacking you?  Or do you people just never learn?

Afghanistan was one of the greatest successes of any war program started during the Carter Administration. And one of the greatest failures of the Reagan era .

Once Afghanistan was free of the Soviets , it was cut adrift , it had no indigenous government because of all that war , and the collaborators with the Soviets got the treatment typical for collaborators.So for some years banditry was the rule in every province , when the Taliban took over they were an improvement , not because they were good government but because they were some government.

The Taliban did things that won them world opprobrium , but most of what they did we were all going to tolerate,they even did us a favor when they suppressed the poppy crop. But they took Osama Bin Laden in and let him build a huge base from which to attack the US , since Ossama was determined to drag the US into a war on turf he was familiar with , Afghanistan was doomed to have war Return , this time with Americans instead of Russians. Whether it is worse to fight Americans or Russians there are few to tell , mostly they are Afghanis who have the sad distinction of having had to battle both.

  If Iraq is abandoned to chaos there is no reason to suppose that something friendly and reasonable will emerge , very likely instead another chaos will give birth to another monster better only than nothing , hateful to us or Else hospitable to our enemies so much that we will have to return , and in returning earn again the position we seem so eager to give away for nothing, having earned it with blood and tears , we should consider carefully the potential to pay the same price again with more intrest.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 06:27:45 PM by Plane »

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2008, 06:06:05 PM »
<<If Iraq is abandoned to chaos there is no reason to suppose that something freindly and reasonable will emerge . . . >>

So now you are claiming the right to invade any country that you do not find "friendly" and "reasonable?"

<<very likely instead another chaos will give birth to another monstr better only than nothing , hateful to us or elese hospitable to our enemys so much that we will have to return . . . >>

OK, if the "chaos" is replaced with "another monster" (presumably a ruler hostile to your interests, not a creature half-man and half-beast) who you find to be "hateful" or who chooses to be on good terms with your enemies, then you will "have to return."  This is really interesting.

<<OK, so  , and in returning earn again the popsition we seem so eager to give away for nothing haveing earned it with blood and tears , we should consider carefully the potential to pay the same price again with more intrest.>>

So you "earned" Iraq and now it's yours.  You can choose to "give it away"  (presumably back to its own people) but since you own it now, you should get some kind of prize for giving it back.  A permanently friendly government.

It's kind of sad that you think you have this natural entitlement to control by the application of overwhelming lethal violence the lives and destinies of other sovereign people, but it's very revealing of a certain American mindset.  Those who live by the sword die by the sword.  Thank God you will never succeed in your objectives and soon, when you are driven out of Iraq as you were driven out of Viet Nam, most of the American people will learn to have a little more respect for international law than you apparently do.  Thanks for your honesty.

Plane

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2008, 06:32:23 PM »
<<If Iraq is abandoned to chaos there is no reason to suppose that something freindly and reasonable will emerge . . . >>

So now you are claiming the right to invade any country that you do not find "friendly" and "reasonable?"

<<very likely instead another chaos will give birth to another monstr better only than nothing , hateful to us or elese hospitable to our enemys so much that we will have to return . . . >>

OK, if the "chaos" is replaced with "another monster" (presumably a ruler hostile to your interests, not a creature half-man and half-beast) who you find to be "hateful" or who chooses to be on good terms with your enemies, then you will "have to return."  This is really interesting.

<<OK, so  , and in returning earn again the popsition we seem so eager to give away for nothing haveing earned it with blood and tears , we should consider carefully the potential to pay the same price again with more intrest.>>

So you "earned" Iraq and now it's yours.  You can choose to "give it away"  (presumably back to its own people) but since you own it now, you should get some kind of prize for giving it back.  A permanently friendly government.

It's kind of sad that you think you have this natural entitlement to control by the application of overwhelming lethal violence the lives and destinies of other sovereign people, but it's very revealing of a certain American mindset.  Those who live by the sword die by the sword.  Thank God you will never succeed in your objectives and soon, when you are driven out of Iraq as you were driven out of Viet Nam, most of the American people will learn to have a little more respect for international law than you apparently do.  Thanks for your honesty.

Thank you for finding more meaning in my words than I invested them with.

Natzi Germany ,Facist Italy and Imperial Japan were invaded for being unfreindly to the US , it is a matter of degree.

Should we indeed think on the merits of invadeing reasonable and freindly countrys?

_JS

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2008, 07:08:49 PM »
Quote
He has some intention to "get along" with the other side.
I have no intention to "get along" and will fire back when fired on.
Myself, Ann Coulter,Mark Levin don't allow others to set the ground rules of debate.
And that is something some cant handle.

LOLOLOLOLOL

I needed a good laugh. Thanks man.
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   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #73 on: June 25, 2008, 07:16:28 PM »
<<Natzi Germany ,Facist Italy and Imperial Japan were invaded for being unfreindly to the US , it is a matter of degree.>>

OMG, WHAT have you been smoking?

Japan was invaded in consequence of launching a devastating aerial assault on U.S. ships.  Germany by Britain and France in consequence of invading Poland, Italy by Britain and France in consequence of invading France, and both of them by the U.S.A. in consequence of declaring war on the U.S.A. after their ally bombed Pearl Harbor and the U.S.A. then declared war on their ally.

None of them were invaded for mere unfriendliness to the U.S.A.

Nobody is disputing that if Iraq were to invade the U.S.A. or attack a U.S. base as the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor, or attack an ally that the U.S. was bound by treaty to defend, as Britain and France were bound by treaty to defend Poland, that the U.S. would "have to" go back.  But that is hardly the issue here, because these events are so unlikely.  Your claim that the U.S. would "have to" go back into Iraq merely because a future Iraqi government could be "hostile" to the U.S. or "friendly" to its enemies, is mind-boggling.  It's certainly one of the things Obama must have had in mind when he said that America needed to change.

Amianthus

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2008, 07:18:27 PM »
Iraq shot at US aircraft patrolling the UN mandated no fly zones a number of times.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)