Romania Marks 20th Year Since Kommie Kollapse

[Michael Tee]

<<The ideals of the Founding Fathers were codified in the constitution . . .>>

Many of them, yes.  I was speaking in a broader sense.  The Founding Fathers were liberal, humane, rational men who shared in a Zeitgeist, the Enlightenment.  I don't think that, as men of The Enlightenment, they believed in torture, or wars of aggression, or even in slavery, though they may have held racial views, common at the time and "scientific" in their opinion, which could have rationalized slavery.  I certainly don't think any of them would have thought that one white man could justifiably enslave another.  I believe the Founding Fathers would have wanted Americans to try to be a better nation, to set a higher standard, just because that's the kind of people they were.  If you were to ask me, OK, where did they write that down? - - I wouldn't know where to begin looking, but I bet it's more likely than not that I'd find it somewhere, if I spent enough time searching.

[BT]

The founders wanted this to be a nation of laws and set the framework for it to be just that. If they wanted us to be a better nation, they would have written better laws.

[Plane]

About half of them thought that slavery should end when they wrote the constitution compromises were made with the other half.

When these compromises broke down about seventy years later the civil war resulted.

[Michael Tee]

<<The founders wanted this to be a nation of laws and set the framework for it to be just that. >>

I won't quarrel with that.

<<If they wanted us to be a better nation, they would have written better laws.>>

That's not true.  I believe they recognized the inherent limitations of any system of laws and did the best they could.  I think they expected more good to come of the nation that they created than actually came.

[BSB]

If you don't like what you think this nation has become, Mr. Canada, frankly, that's too god damn bad. You don't pay taxes here, you don't vote here, and you aren't part of any change here, be it for the better, or worse. All you do is whine on the internet from a distance. All you do is tout your own moral view, and actions, and complain about what you perceive to be the moral views and actions of others. That makes you a blowhard. And more to the point, in your case, you're a blowhard with bad intentions.

[Kramer]

If you don't like what you think this nation has become, Mr. Canada, frankly, that's too god damn bad. You don't pay taxes here, you don't vote here, and you aren't part of any change here, be it for the better, or worse. All you do is whine on the internet from a distance. All you do is tout your own moral view, and actions, and complain about what you perceive to be the moral views and actions of others. That makes you a blowhard. And more to the point, in your case, you're a blowhard with bad intentions.

I will say this -- at least Mikey presents a case and debates and rarely if ever resorts to name-calling. I respect him more than you even though him and I disagree. Personally I feel he is much less a danger to himself and others than you.

[BSB]

There you go again, We. After a post that said nothing to, or about, you, you start up your shit.

[Kramer]

There you go again, We. After a post that said nothing to, or about, you, you start up your shit.

I don't mind defending a friend even though he can defend himself. I defend your option to act like a prick if that is your only recourse. Take a handful of pain medicine, tuck yourself in for the night, and check in tomorrow.

[Plane]

If you don't like what you think this nation has become, Mr. Canada, frankly, that's too god damn bad. You don't pay taxes here, you don't vote here, and you aren't part of any change here, be it for the better, or worse. All you do is whine on the internet from a distance. All you do is tout your own moral view, and actions, and complain about what you perceive to be the moral views and actions of others. That makes you a blowhard. And more to the point, in your case, you're a blowhard with bad intentions.

Where I live I won't meet someone whit MT's sort of Point of view very often , years could go by.


What you are complaining about is half of what makes him valuable.


I do not know if there is a Zen of disagreement , but I think there could be. Have you ever heard of something of that sort?

[BSB]

We've been through this debate before, Plane. I disagree with you. You don't go after change by calling this country AmericKKKa day after day. That kind of negative approach gets no one anywhere. Further, as an American I don't like it, and I have every right to call out the source of that kind of garbage.   

[BSB]

Even more to the point, Plane, snowblower said that when we get attacked again, how ever bad it is, it won't be bad enough. Now you may enjoy that kind of debate, Plane, I find it rather sad.

[Plane]

We've been through this debate before, Plane. I disagree with you. You don't go after change by calling this country AmericKKKa day after day. That kind of negative approach gets no one anywhere. Further, as an American I don't like it, and I have every right to call out the source of that kind of garbage.   

I don't want you to stop .

I do want you to not take it personally, we are not going to resort to the code of duels so your satisfaction is ultimately going to be poor.

But if you are courious about what the opposite way of thinking is comeing up with you can listen to MT .

You are not required to agree with me , I am just observing from my point of view.

I won't have to imagine what MT is thinking, there on the antipodes of logic and history, because he is generous with his thoughts. How would I figure out what that thinking is like without someone like this to discuss it with?

I don't expect that I will agree with MT very often , but I always do agree with myself. If agreement were the ultimate goal I should spend more time talking to myself.

[Plane]

Even more to the point, Plane, snowblower said that when we get attacked again, how ever bad it is, it won't be bad enough. Now you may enjoy that kind of debate, Plane, I find it rather sad.

Well it is sorta sad , looking at it like that.

The better off the people of the world become, the more it will seem to him that they are being cheated of the even better world thay could have had. How better could one garuntee frustration?

Lets be glad that we are closer to perfect.

[BSB]

The point is this Plane. While I disagree with the rulers of Iran, Cuba, etc., you will never hear me say I hope that their country is attacked by terrorist thugs and that thousands are killed, and even that that won't be bad enough.

[Michael Tee]

<<If you don't like what you think this nation has become, Mr. Canada, frankly, that's too god damn bad. >>

That's my honest opinion, for what it's worth.  I don't give a shit whether you like it or not.

<<You don't pay taxes here . . . >>

That's not entirely true.  I pay a sales tax every time I buy anything in your fucking country.  Besides which, you fucking moron, since when did payment of taxes validate an opinion, or non-payment invalidate one?

<< . . . you don't vote here>>

Fuck you, ass-hole.  You didn't vote in Viet Nam, but that didn't stop you and your fellow war criminals from bombing, maiming, murdering and torturing any Vietnamese citizen who foresaw a different future for his or her country than you did.  So excuse me if I step on your toes, dick-breath, it's a very minor intrusion compared to the one you committed.

<< . . . and you aren't part of any change here, be it for the better, or worse. >>

Read your own posts, shit-head.  Or at least try to keep 'em all in tune.  You said yourself that my postings caused you to change your mind on the Arab-Israeli issue and furthermore you don't know who else reads this shit.   Besides, you should thank God that I DON'T have a bigger following in the U.S., because if I did, I would make God-damn sure that every fucking war criminal would pay for his crimes with his fucking life.  So don't bitch about me NOT being a part of any change in your fucked-up country, because if I did, not only would it be one hell of a better place but a lot of the bastards you served in Nam with could be on trial for their lives.

<<All you do is whine on the internet from a distance. >>

Fuck you.  The distance is negligible, ninety minutes from Buffalo, three and a half hours from Detroit by car.  I'm in Manhattan five or six times a year and I've been all over your fucking country including the Deep South.  We watch your movies and TV, listen to your music and comedy and most of us know more about your fucking country than you do.  Besides which, WTF do you care where my opinion comes from?  If I were beaming my thoughts in from Betelgeuse, they would still be more coherent, more apposite, more logical than your pathetic little brain-farts, wherever you're posting your crap from.

<<All you do is tout your own moral view, and actions . . . >>

Geeze, sorry 'bout THAT, boss, next time I'll make sure to post only yours.  Fucking moron.

<< . . . and complain about what you perceive to be the moral views and actions of others. >>

No shit, Sherlock.  Those are my opinions.  If you want to voice a contrary opinion, feel free.  The simple fact is, I'm right and you're wrong.  You're full of shit and I can prove it.  So I guess that rules out voicing a contrary opinion, doesn't it?  What's left?  Oh, I know!  Let loose a shitload of invective and insult.   Oh but you figured that out all by yourself, didn't you?  Boy that makes you smart.  I knew you had to be smart because you got into the Special Forces.  You must be a real fucking intellectual. Killing people and taking them apart requires a really keen mind.  Must be frustrating as hell for you when your Neanderthal ideas are exposed for the shit they are and the only logical response is to take out the old K-Bar and dismember your opponent slowly in front of his wife and kids but you can't do it because it's an internet debate and WTF can you do  but . . .  yeah, you got it, YEAH, more gutter insults.  The military "mind" at work.  Well thanks for showing us how it works, pal, it's been very instructive.

  <<That makes you a blowhard. And more to the point, in your case, you're a blowhard with bad intentions.>>

Yeah, that's it.  I'm an evil guy, BSB.  I'm for peace and against war, I'm against racism and fascism and militarism, I want all Americans to have equal access to health care regardless of the thickness of their wallets, so I'm a blowhard.  With BAD INTENTIONS.  Fuck you, man.  Fuck you right up the ass with your own rifle cleaning equipment.  Get my drift?  Go fuck yourself.