DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: sirs on December 07, 2006, 11:03:11 PM
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(http://www.cagle.com/working/061201/ohman.gif)
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No matter what the US does or when, Iran will always share a border with Iraq, as well as a majority Shiite population. Iraqi Shiites will always visit shrines in Iran, Iranians will always visit shrines in Iraq.
An American complaining about Iranian interest in Iraq makes about as much sense as an Iranian complaining about US involvement in Canada, or Canadian involvement in the US.
This cartoonist seems to ignore geography and history.
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An American complaining about Iranian interest in Iraq makes about as much sense as an Iranian complaining about US involvement in Canada, or Canadian involvement in the US. This cartoonist seems to ignore geography and history.
And the previous responder seems to ignore the current history & threat that Iran poses vs the threat that Canada poses
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(http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/061207/varvel.jpg)
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Maybe I missed a news story (wouldn't be the first time), but what makes you think the Iraq Study Group report is aligned with the interests of the Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?
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An American complaining about Iranian interest in Iraq makes about as much sense as an Iranian complaining about US involvement in Canada, or Canadian involvement in the US. This cartoonist seems to ignore geography and history.
And the previous responder seems to ignore the current history & threat that Iran poses vs the threat that Canada poses
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You have missed the point, entirely.
Iran is a neighbor of Iraq. It will always be a neighbor of Iraq, just as the US is and always will be a neighbor of Canada.
Iran poses ZERO threat to the US. Iran has not been an agressor since times of the Roman Empire.
Go on, Pray for Victory in the Iraqi Crusade.
It's a dumb cartoon, and now you have found it a partner. Obviously James Baker is an ally of Ahmadinejad.
NOTE: Israel is NOT a part of the US, and will never be one.
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An American complaining about Iranian interest in Iraq makes about as much sense as an Iranian complaining about US involvement in Canada, or Canadian involvement in the US. This cartoonist seems to ignore geography and history.
And the previous responder seems to ignore the current history & threat that Iran poses vs the threat that Canada poses
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Iran is a neighbor of Iraq. It will always be a neighbor of Iraq, just as the US is and always will be a neighbor of Canada. Iran poses ZERO threat to the US. Iran has not been an agressor since times of the Roman Empire. Go on, Pray for Victory in the Iraqi Crusade.
NOTE: Israel is NOT a part of the US, and will never be one.
I realize Xo your propensity for not getting it, or perhaps worse, getting it, but trying to convince others otherwise. The point remains, that the U.S. has nothing to worry about from a neighboring Canada. Iraq has everything to worry about from a neighboring Iran.
NOTE; Israel has nothing to do with this thread
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Maybe I missed a news story (wouldn't be the first time), but what makes you think the Iraq Study Group report is aligned with the interests of the Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?
Since it advocates that the U.S. vacate the area sooner rather than later. Perhaps before Iraq is ready to handle their own security. I'm pretty sure Ahnadinejad would be salivating at both prospects.
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Is it your assertion then, Sirs, that our only course of action in Iraq should be the exact opposite of anything Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad might like, regardless of what that course of action actually entails?
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Is it your assertion then, Sirs, that our only course of action in Iraq should be the exact opposite of anything Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad might like, regardless of what that course of action actually entails?
No
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So if we decided to do something that happened to align with something Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would like to see happen, then that something could still be the right thing to do?
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So if we decided to do something that happened to align with something Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would like to see happen, then that something could still be the right thing to do?
"Could" being the operable word there. I'm not seeing it currently however
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Iraq has everything to worry about from a neighboring Iran.
The US didn't about Iran conquering Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War, which was started, by Iraq, by the way.
No matter what the US does, Iran and Iraq will ever be neighbors.
Iraq has about 23 million, and decreasing. Iran has about 77 million, and growing.
So what do you propose? Moving Iraq? Moving Iran?
Keeping a huge American Army in Iraq forever?
I am afraid none of these is within the realm of possibility.
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NOTE; Israel has nothing to do with this thread
Were it not for Israel, there would have been no Iraq War. Every one of the prominant NeoCons except Cheney is Jewish, and all of them are Zionists.
The US cannot invade Iran. If it were to try, Iran could shut off nearly all oil from the Persian Gulf, and it would not require nukes, either.
I guess all we can do here against any Iranian threat is draw stupid cartoons.
It is just as well that Iran proposes no threat to the US.
Iraq and Israel will just have to learn to look out for themselves.
s
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The US cannot invade Iran. If it were to try, Iran could shut off nearly all oil from the Persian Gulf, and it would not require nukes, either.
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Would shutting Europe and China's oil supply down really hurt us?
In the US we buy more oil from Canada and Mexico than from Iran and Iraq.
China might get by with its Cuban oil but Europe will be severely starveing.
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Would shutting Europe and China's oil supply down really hurt us?
In the US we buy more oil from Canada and Mexico than from Iran and Iraq.
China might get by with its Cuban oil but Europe will be severely starveing.
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You might be :P clueless :P as to how international commodities are bought and sold.
China does not import oil from Cuba. China does not export oil to anyone. Cuba has 11 million people and any amount of oil it uses in comparison with China, which has 1,1000 million would be inconsequential. But there is no oil commerce between China and Cuba at all, so this is meaningless.
Neither the United States nor the US government (except for the emergency reserves) does not import oil. Companies import oil, and they pay the world price. If there is a small supply and a high demand, the price goes up everywhere.
If no oil went to Europe or Japan or China, this would shut down both imports from and exports to either region. I don't suppose you have bought any products recently that were not made in the US, so this would naturally not affect you ;).
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So Iraq could indeed cut its own throat and inconvienience us quite a lot?
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So Iraq could indeed cut its own throat and inconvienience us quite a lot?
If you are talking to me: We cut our own throats in Iraq , my friend, but your are right that silly old "inconvenience' of 3000 US dead and $300 billion wasted dollars and counting.
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If the US were to bomb Iran, then Iran could retaliate by cutting off oil shipped out through the Persian Gulf, which would be most exports from Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Oman.
This would not be good for the economies of any countries that import oil.
I said nothing at all about Iraq "cutting its throat".
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...snip...
I realize Xo your propensity for continuing to not get it, yet the point still remains, that the U.S. has nothing to worry about from a neighboring Canada. Iraq has everything to worry about from a neighboring Iran.
NOTE; Again, Israel has nothing to do with this thread, or the points being made about the threat Iran poses to Iraq
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I realize Xo your propensity for continuing to not get it, yet the point still remains, that the U.S. has nothing to worry about from a neighboring Canada. Iraq has everything to worry about from a neighboring Iran.
NOTE; Again, Israel has nothing to do with this thread, or the points being made about the threat Iran poses to Iraq
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What is there to get?
There are three times more Iranians than Iraqis.
That the United States must stay in Iraq until Iran moves out of the neighborhood?
Do you actually think that this will happen, that Iran will get so tired of living next door to an Iraq that won't ask its American buddies to leave that it will just cancel the lease, ask for its deposit back, and resettle in the Himalayas, or perhaps the South Pacific?
Maybe Iran's territory could be leased out to some Bengals. There are surely enough of them, and not only have they outgrown Bangla Desh, but the little territory they do have tends to flood every monsoon season.
I don't think Antarctica, though unsettled, is much of a viable alternative.
What are the odds that the US will stay in Iraq until Iran ceases to be a threat in the minds of the CIA or the Neocons?
I say very slim to none.
What is the conclusion that you draw from your "point"?
That the US should invade Iran, which has 77 million people, none of whm really want us to invade their country?
I would say that this is a tad foolhardy, seeing as Iraq which has 22 million people didn't turn out too well, nor did Afghanistan, which is becoming reinfested with Talibani again, except this time they seem to be narcotrafficking Talibani.
What was the good thjat came from invading Grenada again? We DID do that one right, didn't we?
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What is there to get? There are three times more Iranians than Iraqis.
So frellin what? Good gravy Xo, you're not this dense. If anything you simply reinforce my point that Iraq has everything to fear from a neighboring Iran. Just because they're neighbors.........I mean what is your point? Yea, they border each other. And the relevence to that is what again, besides the threat they pose?
That the United States must stay in Iraq until Iran moves out of the neighborhood? Do you actually think that this will happen, that Iran will get so tired of living next door to an Iraq that won't ask its American buddies to leave that it will just cancel the lease, ask for its deposit back, and resettle in the Himalayas, or perhaps the South Pacific?
What are you smoking?, and how the hell did you jump to that completely illogical conclusion? Iran move out of the neighborhood? ???
What is the conclusion that you draw from your "point"? That the US should invade Iran, which has 77 million people, none of whm really want us to invade their country?
Ummm, that the threat Iran poses to Iraq is legitimate maybe. Outside of that, there was not much more of a point to the cartoon that began this thread
What was the good thjat came from invading Grenada again? We DID do that one right, didn't we?
And that has what to do with the tea in China?
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If the US were to bomb Iran, then Iran could retaliate by cutting off oil shipped out through the Persian Gulf, which would be most exports from Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Oman.
This would not be good for the economies of any countries that import oil.
I said nothing at all about Iraq "cutting its throat".
Yes you did.
The US cannot invade Iran. If it were to try, Iran could shut off nearly all oil from the Persian Gulf, and it would not require nukes, either.
The US can shut the Straights of Hormouz better than the Iranians , this would be cutting their throat , they would be screaming for mercy pretty quick.
Of course they could preempt this by cutting their own throat , either way the USA would have to get by on the oil it has and can buy from Canada , Mexico and Venizuela.
Europe would have to exist on the oil of Saudi Arabia and the North Sea and Russia.
China would be stuck with coal, and the increase in pollution China would them produce would roll across the pacific and make us seriously sorry.
But I digress.
If Iran cuts off the oil of the Persian Gulf they will be instantly out of money and reduce their credit rateing , they would produce a dearth of employment in the whole region and earn no credit or freinds.
Come to think of it if Al Queda ever wants to shut the straights of Hormouz they could do it with a roumor , roumors are pretty cheap but they can be very expensive on the opposite end. Since they havent tried I kinda expect that they have figured out how empty the threat is.
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Yes you did.
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The US cannot invade Iran. If it were to try, Iran could shut off nearly all oil from the Persian Gulf, and it would not require nukes, either.
The US can shut the Straights of Hormouz better than the Iranians , this would be cutting their throat , they would be screaming for mercy pretty quick.
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Eyes they have, yet they do not see. Ears they have, yet they do not hear. Tongues thay have, yet...
No, I did not say anything about IRAQ (not Iran, IRAQ) cutting its throat.
If Iran were bombed by the US it could make everyone quite unhappy by sinking things in the Persian Gulff, and/or perhaps blowing up a few tanker terminals.
More specifically, Iran could simply inform the US that if the US bombs Iran's nuclear installations, then Iran will retaliate by closing off the Persian Gulf to tankers.
The oil business does not work in real life as it does in your imagination. The oil goes to the highest bidder. Thgis happened during the 1970's crisis and would happen again.
Al Qaeda could not shut down anything. No one takes them seriously anymore.
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The oil business does not work in real life as it does in your imagination. The oil goes to the highest bidder. Thgis happened during the 1970's crisis and would happen again.
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. The oil goes to the highest bidder.
Right! You are absolutely right!
I imagine this exactly the way you state this, the Oil will go where it is wanted worst , who will outbid the US?
Where is Gas cheaper than in the US now? Europe will be badly hurt and China even worse , we will drive a lot less but of all the worlds hurt we wouldbe hurt the least and Iran the most.
Iraq would also be hurt but we could still finance their efforts and the pipelines thru Turkey would become more important.
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The US does not buy oil.
Most of the buying and selling of oil is done between private companies, and they do not, repeat DO NOT have patriotism as their main motivation for selling that oil to their fellow countrymen. They could give a rat's ass about their country. It's about the profits. Maybe aboiut the shareholders' profits. Not you and your car.
Companies buy oil. Not the US. Companies. They do it to profit from doing it, I repeat.
Some of those companies are American companies, but you will find, if you investigate what happened in the 1970's oil crisis that companies were selling and bidding up prices of oil while the oil was in tankers. Some tankers changed course several times as ever higher bids came in.
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The US does not buy oil.
They could give a rat's ass about their country. It's about the profits. Maybe aboiut the shareholders' profits. Not you and your car.
Companies buy oil. Not the US. Companies. They do it to profit from doing it, I repeat.
Some of those companies are American companies, but you will find, if you investigate what happened in the 1970's oil crisis that companies were selling and bidding up prices of oil while the oil was in tankers. Some tankers changed course several times as ever higher bids came in.
" Most of the buying and selling of oil is done between private companies, and they do not, repeat DO NOT have patriotism as their main motivation for selling that oil to their fellow countrymen."
I would sell my stock in them if they were otherwise!
You are correct the bidding is actually done by you and I and how is a poor Chineese guy going to out bid you and I?
And Imagine the public of Iran watching the world price of Oil climbing to outragious new highs while they are swimming in it and unable to sell more than a trickle?
Yes this reminds me of the sciene in "Blazeing Saddles " when the Sherriff takes a hostage.
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You are correct the bidding is actually done by you and I and how is a poor Chineese guy going to out bid you and I?
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Rather easily,actually.
The Chinese govt. does the buying for petroleum. It can make deals for the whole nation. Gasoline is heavily subsidized in the PRC, and it benefits the growing middle class as well as the Chinese auto industry, which has to be a major priority as an export industry for China. The Chinese need to provide gasoline to prevent riots and other political problems.
The possibility of riots over fuel is much more likely in the PRC than in the USA, where at most, a couple of bozos fighting over their place in line might make the Nightly News More at Eleven.
Chances are that within a dozen years, you will be either driving or seeing a lot of Chinese-made Buicks, VW's and Cherrys, sold super-cheap at a dealership near you.
US oil purchases will be made by companies whoi would just as soon sell that oil to the Japanese, the French or the Germans as to fellow Americans. Whoever has the biggest bucks.