A sign of things to come?

[Universe Prince]

In a future where immigration is more restricted than now through regulations and more strict enforcement, there comes the danger of a labor shortage. But wait, the government comes to save the day! The farmers have asked for this help and so instead of low paid immigrant workers the government provides... prison inmates working for less than a dollar a day. Not so you say? Exactly so I say. Why?

As migrant laborers flee Colorado because of tough new immigration restrictions, worried farmers are looking to prisoners to fill their places in the fields. In a pilot program run by the state Corrections Department, supervised teams of low-risk inmates beginning this month will be available to harvest the swaths of sweet corn, peppers and melons that sweep the southeastern portion of the state. Under the program, which has drawn criticism from groups concerned about immigrants’ rights and from others seeking changes in the criminal justice system, farmers will pay a fee to the state, and the inmates, who volunteer for the work, will be paid about 60 cents a day, corrections officials said.

   [. . .]

Although chain gangs and prison farms have long been staples of American correctional culture, the concept of inmates working on private farms is unusual. But there are signs that other states are following suit. The Iowa Department of Corrections is considering a similar program because of a migrant labor shortage in that state. Several Iowa farmers called recently to request inmates in lieu of migrant workers, said Roger Baysden, the director of the state’s prison industries program. One farmer asked for as many as 200 inmates, Mr. Baysden said.

   [. . .]

With the start of the farming season looming, Colorado’s farmers are scrambling to figure out which crops to sow and in what quantity. Some are considering turning to field corn, which is mechanically harvested. And they are considering whether they want to pay for an urban inmate who could not single out a ripe watermelon or discern between a weed and an onion plant. “This is not a cure-all,” Mr. Pisciotta said. “What our farm laborers do is a skill. They’re born with it, and they’re good at it. It’s not an easy job.”

Whole New York Times article by Dan Frosch at the other end of this link.

Who says we can't get Americans to do this work? Pshaw. We have all the slave lab... I mean prison workers we need. And after all, we can always just throw more pot smokers in jail.

Yeah, okay, maybe that sarcasm was over the top, but I have a hard time not being severely critical of the whole situation.

[kimba1]

not quite off

here in california,we have pelican bay a maximun security prison.
the problem with it is it needed prisoners for it to exist.
 many policies and laws have been tweeked .
now we have soo many prisoners in california ,theirs talk of exporting them off state.
if the state makes a good income contracting prison labor.
It`s a very good bet prison population will grow to met demands for cheap labor.
using prisons as a income source is not a good idea.

[BT]

This story seems to be incomplete. It says what the prisoners are paid but it doesn't say what the state is paid.

I would hope it is at least on par with the going rate for migrant workers.

If it isn't whoever negotiates the placement of workers should be fired.

[The_Professor]

and any monies made by these prisoners should go into the victim's fund.

[BT]

and any monies made by these prisoners should go into the victim's fund.

What if there is no victim?

[kimba1]

I would think it would be comparable to ther prison job pay
ex. laundry,cook etc.
usually quite low and it would count for shortening their senctence.
remember all this work is voluntary.
despite what people tend to think about how great slavery is voluntary is always better quality than involutary work

[The_Professor]

and any monies made by these prisoners should go into the victim's fund.

What if there is no victim?

It should go into the 3DHS fund for continual improvement.

[BT]

It should go into the 3DHS fund for continual improvement.

Touche'

[Plane]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17469749/


A diffrent sighn of the times .

An Employee evesdrops on the employer and the media.

Who is the victim?

[Universe Prince]

Interesting. So far, none of the responders but Kimba seems concerned about the use of prisoners. And BT seemed concerned that the state government might be getting gypped. Huh. Oh well.

[Plane]

Interesting. So far, none of the responders but Kimba seems concerned about the use of prisoners. And BT seemed concerned that the state government might be getting gypped. Huh. Oh well.

Are we worried that the stuff we buy at Wall Mart might be made by Chineese prison labor?

[BT]

I did not offer an opinion about the use of volunteer prison labor. I did comment on the fact that your story seemed incomplete.

What was not emphasized was that both states where programs like this are under evaluation have Dem governors in the statehouse. What also was not emphasized was what lobbying groups conributed to which legislators so that this trial could take place. And though they did point out that the prisoner/laborers recieved 60 cents a day compensation it did not provide details as to the states cut. Your comment about pot smokers just goes to show how much work the libertarian party has in front of it and how little it has accomplished thus far. Just so you know, i think some drug laws need revisiting. But that has more to do with personal experience and observation than it does some libertarian treatise.

The devill is in the details. And the story was remiss in providing them.

I am surprised that you object to prisoners volunteering to work outside prison gates. It's a free exchange of labor for modest reward. It is their time they are volunteering and i don't see where they are coerced to participate.

Would you object as much if they were paid the current rate for migrant workers?

[Universe Prince]

What was not emphasized was that both states where programs like this are under evaluation have Dem governors in the statehouse.

I don't care what the party affiliation of the state governors might be. And I was not criticizing a political party.

What also was not emphasized was what lobbying groups conributed to which legislators so that this trial could take place.

I don't care about that either.

And though they did point out that the prisoner/laborers recieved 60 cents a day compensation it did not provide details as to the states cut.

As you might have guessed by now, that is not where my concern lies.

Your comment about pot smokers just goes to show how much work the libertarian party has in front of it and how little it has accomplished thus far.

Oh, I dunno. Considering that a few states are trying medical marijuana laws even though the feds keep trying to stop them, perhaps libertarians (not necessarily the Libertarian Party) have accomplished more than you give them credit for. Not that long ago, Colorado actually had an initiative on the ballot that would have eliminated penalties for adults possessing an ounce or less of marijuana. Granted, the initiative failed, but a similar one had previously been passed in Denver. Yes, there is a long way to go, but progress is being made.

Just so you know, i think some drug laws need revisiting. But that has more to do with personal experience and observation than it does some libertarian treatise.

Pooh yi.

I am surprised that you object to prisoners volunteering to work outside prison gates. It's a free exchange of labor for modest reward. It is their time they are volunteering and i don't see where they are coerced to participate.

I don't object to that. I find the use of prison labor as a substitute for immigrant workers to be offensive and really stupid. People who are skilled at the work are being scared off, and the resulting labor shortage is to be filled with prisoners. And the prisoner program is hardly a free exchange of labor. The prisoner has no liberty to negotiate his wage. He merely volunteers for a work program or spends his time in the prison itself. It's not exactly slave labor, but it ain't that far off.

Would you object as much if they were paid the current rate for migrant workers?

Yes. The 60¢ an hour is a sort of perverse icing on the cake. The issue is using prison labor because of a crack down on illegal immigrants. One of the many arguments made against the immigrant laborers is that they work for lower wages. Now prisoners are going to get 60¢ an hour to do the work, and somewhere someone is happy that American culture and values are being preserved.

I realize now, of course, that my concern in this matter is wasted. No one cares. I think this is the biggest barrier that libertarians face. Not the rampant criticism that libertarianism is impractical (which it is not) or that libertarians cannot get elected. Those are merely symptoms of the larger problem that most people do not give a damn about the consequences of things like cracking down on immigration or the "war on drugs". The consequences they get are the ones they think will get them what they want. We're saving America from the illegal immigrants or helping the poor or whatever. So long as the intentions can be maintained, who cares if it hurts people?

[BT]

I don't care what the party affiliation of the state governors might be. And I was not criticizing a political party.

Don't recall saying you did. And though i didn't critcize the political party invilved it is an illuminating coincidence that both states mentioned had dems at the helm.

And though your goals in posting the story might have been loftier, my interest was piqued by what was left out of the story. You asked if this is a sign of things to come, my interest was how did we get to this point.

The simple fact is that apparently our fruits and vegetables are going to be brought to table by lawbreakers. One group that sleeps behind bars or one group that crosses borders in the dead of night.

[Plane]

The simple fact is that apparently our fruits and vegetables are going to be brought to table by lawbreakers.

Do you suppose that something is profoundly wrong with the law?