Obama throws Israel under the Bus

[Xavier_Onassis]

I like the idea of disarming Palisrael, then having the Dutch come in for a spell to run the entire place while dumping the Golan into the Mediterranean to form polders (as the Dutch have built in the Zeider Zee), which would then be a second country.

Then in some way, one country gets the new land and a bunch of money, and the other gets the old country, less the money.

[sirs]

I think yours is far more viable than Bt's nuke plan....problem is you'll never get a country, especially Israel, to "lay down their arms", and allow someone else to try and protect them.  I don't think any sovereign country, outside of complete economic collapse, or the losers of a war, would allow that

[kimba1]

how sad

I`m trying to imagine them releasing control, I`m not kidding  It`s not working. is it a racial thing or  are THEY  that f##KED UP

[Xavier_Onassis]

They are seriously f@¢ked up, and have been so since allegedly God deeded them the place. Presumably Jacob lived in Canaan, and his next to last son Joseph was sold into slavery to an Egyptian, became prime minister, and then invited all his kinfolk in when there was a big drought. He was either a really good CEO, prophetic, or perhaps both.

 Then somehow (the Bible is silent on this) the Hebrews were enslaved, and Moses (who had an Egyptian name and was some sort of Egyptian prince, despite being a Hebrew because of rivers and baskets) organized them and they left, with God's help, and after 40 years ended up back in Canaan (where else is there after one leaves Egypt?).

Costa Rica gave up its army in 1948, Andorra never had one. Militaries have been the bane of the Middle East since independence.

[Plane]

     Nuclear Wepons require credability, people who don't believe that the bombs owner has the crazyness and fortitude to attack with the bomb carry on as if it was not there.

     I think that Isrelis and Palistinians already have demonstrated the crazyness and fortitude required to ignore a nuclear threat, after all Isreal has had its own bomb (probly) for twenty years , even if they can only build one a year they have enough by now to ruin all their neighbors.

      Want to talk about my idea?
   Lets hold a hearing in public where all of the concerned parties are tried on the charge of being bad parents, then whit the evidence examined and ruled upon a large UN force rolls up every child of vunerable age. After a stabilizeing period with the children in protective custody they are all returned to responsible parents , not their own , parents of the opposite faction. Parents who cannot demonstrate good parenting skills don't even get that.

     Yes this is a tough and ugly and unlikely idea , it is only better than killing them all.

   Or perhaps , waiting for them to all kill each other.

[Plane]

They are seriously f@¢ked up, and have been so since allegedly God deeded them the place. Presumably Jacob lived in Canaan, and his next to last son Joseph was sold into slavery to an Egyptian, became prime minister, and then invited all his kinfolk in when there was a big drought. He was either a really good CEO, prophetic, or perhaps both.

 Then somehow (the Bible is silent on this) the Hebrews were enslaved, and Moses (who had an Egyptian name and was some sort of Egyptian prince, despite being a Hebrew because of rivers and baskets) organized them and they left, with God's help, and after 40 years ended up back in Canaan (where else is there after one leaves Egypt?).

Costa Rica gave up its army in 1948, Andorra never had one. Militaries have been the bane of the Middle East since independence.

  Tibet could have used a stronger Army , too late now , the takeing of Tibet is a feint accompli even though it occured pretty recently.

[sirs]

      Want to talk about my idea?
   Lets hold a hearing in public where all of the concerned parties are tried on the charge of being bad parents, then whit the evidence examined and ruled upon a large UN force rolls up every child of vunerable age. After a stabilizeing period with the children in protective custody they are all returned to responsible parents , not their own , parents of the opposite faction. Parents who cannot demonstrate good parenting skills don't even get that.

     Yes this is a tough and ugly and unlikely idea , it is only better than killing them all.

I like it, as inpractical and impossible as it is, I do like it.  Far better than the nuke notion

   Or perhaps , waiting for them to all kill each other.

That's likely, and tragically, more viable   

[BT]

Because your "peace plan" requires the non-starter nuking of entire regions, as repercussions.  Mine doesn't.  that's why

Does that make you an incrementalist?
Kill folks a little at a time?

[sirs]

Only if my goal was to eventually kill as many people as I can.  Since I'm not advocating killing anyone, outside of terrorists and those trying to sabotage the peace process, not sure how you can even entertain the notion of incrementalism.  Actually I do, its a perverted (if not deflective) effort to undermine my serious idea(s) at addressing the problems in the ME, while we ignore your nuking the region peace plan

[BT]

Only if my goal was to eventually kill as many people as I can.  Since I'm not advocating killing anyone, outside of terrorists and those trying to sabotage the peace process, not sure how you can even entertain the notion of incrementalism.  Actually I do, its a perverted (if not deflective) effort to undermine my serious idea(s) at addressing the problems in the ME, while we ignore your nuking the region peace plan

The goal is peace in the region.

Your solution is the equivalent of a time out.

Mine is the equivalent of a zero tolerance expulsion.

Which do you think gets their attention?

And isn't that the goal, get their attention and change their behavior?

[sirs]

Only if my goal was to eventually kill as many people as I can.  Since I'm not advocating killing anyone, outside of terrorists and those trying to sabotage the peace process, not sure how you can even entertain the notion of incrementalism.  Actually I do, its a perverted (if not deflective) effort to undermine my serious idea(s) at addressing the problems in the ME, while we ignore your nuking the region peace plan

The goal is peace in the region.

And your proclamation that Israel go back to its 67borders, while not addressing the enemy surrounding it, is guaranteed to bring on FAR MORE DEATH and war, than mine

Not to mention the exponential death involved in your "peace plan"

Your solution is the equivalent of a time out.

Not at all.  It's a "hey, this is what's going to happen IF......."

Mine is the equivalent of a zero tolerance expulsion.

NOT TO MENTION A NON-STARTER

Let me give you a hint of a starter:
- Hamas MUST remove from its charter death of Israel
- in Writing, the surrounding Arab nations, including the Palestinians, as run by Hamas, MUST acknowledge the right of Israel to exist, right where it is

From that point:
Israel will move back to its 67borders...IF....in writing, there are clear repercussions to befall any organization and/or nation that dares to launch ANY attack on the new Israel and its 67borders

Repercussions can include military attacks upon any and/or all CnC centers, any and/or all communication centers, and any/or all vehicles with wheels.  Repercussions to be swift and total
 

Which do you think gets their attention?

The one that is FAR MORE VIABLE

And isn't that the goal, get their attention and change their behavior?

Reality does play a part in this

[kimba1]

tell me if this wrong, nuking them is not a peace plan,but a self defense situation. these action are not exactly self-contain

[sirs]

You'd have to ask Bt.....its his "Peace plan" that includes the potential of turning the entire region into a glass parking lot

[BT]

And your proclamation that Israel go back to its 67borders

That was not my proposal, nor my prediction. Perhaps you can show the class where i said that.

[Plane]

   I can hardly imagine either of these sides being willing to settle for anything less that full ownership of Jeruselem.

    This and a cupple of other points are more important to the participants than peace is.

    From our POV peace is the cheif goal , but there are plenty that would put peace secandary to other goals , enough in number to matter .