The Chavez Meltdown!

[Kramer]

Cars like the Vega, Pinto, Neon, Cavalier and Escort were not designed by any union people. Nor did unions decide that people should be sold enormous SUV gashogs and trucks when any fool could see that a surge in gas prices would collapse the market.

It was poor management that screwed up GM and Chrysler.

unions were a big part of the failure of GM

[Amianthus]

The big 3 failed because they sold crap.

When did Ford fail?

[Plane]

The big 3 failed because they sold crap.

When did Ford fail?

Ford didn't come get a handout , isn't this makeing it operate at a disadvantage ?

[Amianthus]

Ford didn't come get a handout , isn't this makeing it operate at a disadvantage ?

Yes, they are at a disadvantage - they could not write off massive debt like the other two.

However, they recently announced a profit, which neither GM or Chrysler have been able to do.

[Christians4LessGvt]

"It was certainly not the intention of the Founding Fathers"

Come on Michael...are you really trying to argue that the
intentions of the "Founding Fathers" was not limited government?

"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

[Michael Tee]

<<Come on Michael...are you really trying to argue that the
intentions of the "Founding Fathers" was not limited government?>>

Limited government?  Get real, CU4, they had just rebelled against a monarchy.  ANY kind of government they'd intend after that would have to be "limited government" compared with what they perceived to be the one-man rule of George III.  The question is how limited they wanted it to be.

The only thing the 10th amendment limits is the power of the Federal government.  The British North America Act, which was the former constitution of Canada, replaced in 1982 by the Canada Act, had similar provisions.  I think they are characteristic of any federal form of government in which smaller units, formerly sovereign themselves, are enticed into a federal union.  If the smaller units are to be coaxed into giving up their exclusive sovereignty, the most natural thing would be to limit the powers of the new federal government to those embodied in the constitution of the new nation, otherwise its constituent units would have no idea just how much power they are giving up.

What was interesting to me about the 10th amendment was that it put no limits at all on the powers of the state governments, which were sort of the "vacuum cleaners" of governmental power, picking up anything that wasn't put squarely into the federal government's little cookie jar.  If the power existed and it wasn't assigned to the feds by the Constitution, then it went to the state governments without any specific limits on it.

What is puzzling to me about it is that the powers that aren't given to the feds are given to the state governments OR THE PEOPLE.  Huh?  Which power goes where?  What people?  The people of the federal state or the people of the individual constituent states?  I never "got" the 10th.

[BSB]

Ami

Ford has a long and illustrious history of losing market share. Over the years, at different points in time, they've lost it to GM, Toyota, and Chrysler. They lost market share for 10 years running from the mid 90's into the new century. In 2006 Ford mortgages all its assets. The only reason they didn't get into as much trouble as GM this time around is because they aren't as big. 

However, despite all that, when it comes to a pickup truck I wouldn't buy anything but a Ford, the Mustang's a fun, well built, car, and they're on a roll in general. 

[Universe Prince]

What is puzzling to me about it is that the powers that aren't given to the feds are given to the state governments OR THE PEOPLE.  Huh?  Which power goes where?  What people?  The people of the federal state or the people of the individual constituent states?

Yes.

[Amianthus]

Ford has a long and illustrious history of losing market share. Over the years, at different points in time, they've lost it to GM, Toyota, and Chrysler. They lost market share for 10 years running from the mid 90's into the new century. In 2006 Ford mortgages all its assets. The only reason they didn't get into as much trouble as GM this time around is because they aren't as big.

Ford has increased market share 14 months out of the last 15 months. And they must not have been much smaller than GM - they're both at around 15%.

[BSB]

The last 15 months are a drop in the bucket. The big 3, all of them, sat with their collective heads up their asses while Toyota went from nothing in terms of market share in the US to all but taking them all out of the picture. The big 3 are lucky middle America was as loyal to their products as they were dispite Toyota's huge gains. 

[BSB]

I don't want to end on a sour note here though. Ford has been very impressive of late and you're right in that that should be recognized.

[Amianthus]

The last 15 months are a drop in the bucket. The big 3, all of them, sat with their collective heads up their asses while Toyota went from nothing in terms of market share in the US to all but taking them all out of the picture. The big 3 are lucky middle America was as loyal to their products as they were dispite Toyota's huge gains. 

Toyota's market share never broke 20%. Only GM and Chrysler ever broke 20% market share, and they're the ones hurting now. Matter of fact, Toyota at it's best barely topped Ford at it's best - around 17.5%. And Ford is approaching that market share again, while Toyota is backing away from it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Ford had the same unions and the same contracts as GM. A major difference is that the Ford family owns a huge share of the company, while GM had no such control. Ford was in horrible shape through most of the 90's and early 00's. The Escort was a piece of crap, the Taurus and the LTD were technologically obsolete, and the Lincoln was mostly the sort of car used to ferry the dead and mourners to funerals. Around 2008, they got wise, and revised the entire lineup, except for the Focus, which was rated better than all the local competition.

Now it looks like Ford might outsell Toyota, what with all the sticking accelerator problems that Toyota had.

The Malibu several other models of Chevy have been getting excellent reviews from all the car magazines, as are the Buicks and the Ford Fusion.

Toyotas are reliable as a rule, and fairly easy to repair. The usual complaint about Toyotas is that they are boring.

[Amianthus]

Ford was in horrible shape through most of the 90's and early 00's. The Escort was a piece of crap, the Taurus and the LTD were technologically obsolete, and the Lincoln was mostly the sort of car used to ferry the dead and mourners to funerals. Around 2008, they got wise, and revised the entire lineup, except for the Focus, which was rated better than all the local competition.

Actually, I'll disagree with you on this. The early 90's cars were all crap, but that was also the time that Toyotas started to go downhill. I had been a regular Toyota customer since the early 80's, and my '92 Toyota was less than satisfactory. I replaced an '87 Toyota with a '97 Escort LX, and that was a great car (we sold it late last year). I replaced my '92 Toyota with a '00 F150, and I added an '05 Five Hundred. About the mid 90's is when Ford started making some good cars again, definitely by '97. Of course, it takes time to overhaul an entire lineup, so for a few years they were stuck with some models that were less than appealing. The Fusion is an awesome car. My next car will either be the Fusion or the Flex (depends on whether my wife or I win that argument...)

[sirs]

On a slightly related tangent, Ami, what did you think of the Toyota Supra, circa 1986 - 1992?  Just curious