Author Topic: Ignorance is indeed bliss  (Read 4631 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2008, 10:33:28 PM »
Quote
No, I'd be in favor of doing away with oil altogether.

I agree we should certainly lessen our dependencies upon it.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 07:36:33 AM »
Petroleum is useful for making plastics. Many useful plastics can be made from soybeans, though. When it is cheaper to make something from soybeans than petroleum, that is what will happen. There won't be a total shutoff of oil anywhere, this will be a gradual process, just as the shift from coal to oil and whale oil to kerosene was a gradual process.

The government could and should strive to encourage the development of alternate energy. Giving the oil companies the choice of developing these or paying more taxes is a good idea. It would also be a good idea to lift the embargo on importing alcohol from Brazil. The whole ethanol from corn process depends on subsidies, and these should be phased out, so that they can develop fuel from crops that can be grown on marginal land without irrigation and fertilizer, like switchgrass and jojoba.

Big Oil has lots of sweetheart deals with the Juniorbush government, and these are not to the advantage of most of the people. Personally, I fill my tank with biodiesel (about 40 cents a gallon cheaper than dinodiesel) about 10 gallons per week, and I have invested rather heavily in natural resources funds, so I am personally profiting from expensive gasoline more than I am being ripped off. Not being an idiot, I see no reason to swim against a current I cannot control. In the words of Paul Simon, "who am I to piss against the wind?"

If you would like to benefit from the current silly pro-Big Oil policy too, I recommend FSESX, RYDEX and PRNEX funds as good choices to do this. USO is a bit too volatile for my taste. Naturally, check these out on your own, because my advice is not guaranteed and past performance is no guarantee of future success. EWC is a pretty good Canada ETF (exchange traded fund), with a lot of it involving the Canadian oil boom.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 12:06:07 PM »
<<So you would be in favor of drilling in ANWR as long as it was the govt and not some greedy private corporation?>>

No, I wouldn't.  Wait till I get to see Alaska first.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 12:11:00 PM »
No, I wouldn't.  Wait till I get to see Alaska first.

You would go to ANWR?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2008, 12:19:36 PM »
I'm just impressed how no one on the left can defend this notion as a way of decreasing gasoline prices.  Instead it's support is largely as some sort of vengeful and justified attack to "big oil".  All the while neither able to defend how such an 'attack" will get passed onto we consumers in the form of even higher gas prices.  Yea, the party of the "little guy".......my eye
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2008, 12:40:06 PM »
No, I wouldn't.  Wait till I get to see Alaska first.

Most of ANWR looks like this:



And most of it doesn't even have the pretty caribou to look at.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2008, 01:25:24 PM »
uh, that was supposed to be a joke.  The humour lay in the supposed selfishness of it - - let me see ANWR in its relatively pristine state first and THEN despoil it by drilling for oil.  As if I didn't give a shit about subsequent generations as long as I gratified my own needs to see and experience first.  oh well.  never mind.  So I won't quit my day job.


sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2008, 01:42:20 PM »
I think we can largely "get real" on the notion of drilling.  Folks like Brass, and probably Tee, wouldn't support drilling for oil anywhere, even if it were in Death Valley, or some other hellhole.  So the notion that ANWR drilling is being opposed because it may negatively wrinkle the eco-structure and mating habits of some tundra amphibian are largely bogus.  Drilling is opposed because any oil aquired will undoubtedly help "big oil", and they're the real enemies. 

Ignore the probability of increasing supply & decreasing demand, ignore the probablility that gas prices would come down, ignore the new jobs created, ignore the new technology which greatly lessens the physical impact to the surrounding area, bottom line is if it remotely could be helpul to "big oil", it must be opposed......at all costs.....even if that cost is skyrocketing gasoline prices.  Screw the "little guy", must stick it to "big oil"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2008, 01:42:39 PM »
Within a few years, the oil sands are likely to become more important to the United States than all the oil that comes to us from Saudi Arabia.


« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 02:33:37 PM by Cynthia »

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2008, 02:03:37 PM »
<<Folks like Brass, and probably Tee, wouldn't support drilling for oil anywhere, even if it were in Death Valley, or some other hellhole. >>

BS

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2008, 02:06:42 PM »
So Tee does support drilling for oil.  Capitalist bastard         ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2008, 02:16:16 PM »
Requiring oil companies to invest money in alternative technologies OR pay the same amount in taxes makes perfect sense.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2008, 02:19:48 PM »
And most of it doesn't even have the pretty caribou to look at.

Definitely the first thing that I've read on here that made me laugh in a long time.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2008, 02:21:04 PM »
Yea, let's madate that Restaurants be required to invest their own money into farming.  And if not, the taxes they pay could then be passed onto the consumer in the former of even higher costs.  Yea, makes perfect sense

 ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Ignorance is indeed bliss
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2008, 02:21:34 PM »
Requiring oil companies to invest money in alternative technologies OR pay the same amount in taxes makes perfect sense.

Exactly yes.

And that is exactly what the windfall proposal wants to do.