Author Topic: How Many Laws Can One Break?  (Read 7468 times)

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BT

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 10:18:45 PM »
Quote
Someone else understands where I'm coming from on McCain.

I don't understand this. It seems your largest issue is gay marriage and Obama has flat out stated that he believes marriage to be between one man and one woman and he bases this on his religious beliefs.

Yet Palin is the thumper?

Why does Obama get a pass on this issue?



BSB

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 10:27:36 PM »
test

BSB

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2008, 10:29:44 PM »
Hmmm..., I did that because in another thread when I tried to post it kept telling the body of the message was empty.

sirs

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2008, 10:32:53 PM »
Quote
Someone else understands where I'm coming from on McCain.


I don't understand this. It seems your largest issue is gay marriage and Obama has flat out stated that he believes marriage to be between one man and one woman and he bases this on his religious beliefs.  Yet Palin is the thumper?  Why does Obama get a pass on this issue?

Because the MSM keeps repeating her comments, laying the perception that she's the thumper, while ignoring Obama's perhaps?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2008, 10:48:31 PM »
FM is fairly knowledgeable. I am curious what his viewpoint might be since the issue directly affects him.


Plane

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 04:46:41 AM »
After a few weeks, it will finally sink in - - this guy is no further left than Bill Clinton,...



That would be bad enough if it were true , but really , who in the country is to the left of BHO?

I think that everyone to his left at all was too far into the wings to get elected.

fatman

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 08:10:53 AM »
I don't understand this. It seems your largest issue is gay marriage and Obama has flat out stated that he believes marriage to be between one man and one woman and he bases this on his religious beliefs.

Yet Palin is the thumper?

Why does Obama get a pass on this issue?


Because the MSM keeps repeating her comments, laying the perception that she's the thumper, while ignoring Obama's perhaps?

FM is fairly knowledgeable. I am curious what his viewpoint might be since the issue directly affects him.

I'm not sure what you're asking BT.  In about 6 hours when I take an early lunch to hit the ballot box, I'll be casting my vote for McCain.  I don't know if I would consider gay marriage my biggest issue, I have a lot of others competing for my attention too, mostly issues that most voters don't consider, i.e. resource management on Federal lands.  But I post a lot on gay marriage issues and gay rights issues in here because that's what I'm comfortable in sharing my knowledge in, as you mentioned it's something that affects me directly, whereas whenever I've posted on issues regarding the Forest Service or fisheries it doesn't get much response.

By no means am I giving Obama a pass, if I were, I'd probably vote for him.  As you mentioned, he opposes gay marriage and Biden voted for DOMA, which McCain did also.  I've posted in here before about how a lot of Dems/liberals play lip service to gay rights, but when they have the chance to affect change we end up with nothing, or worse yet, a compromise that in many ways is worse than the original policy, such as Don't Ask, Don't Tell.  I tend to think that McCain will be a one term Pres if elected, and that would allow him to break with some of the wishes on the far right.  I trust him to break with the far right more than I trust Obama to break with the far left.  I don't like either choice, but after reviewing the various other candidates, that's my decision.  There are liberal Republicans, and I've always considered myself more or less belonging to that philosophy.

As for Palin, you're right, I don't generally like her.  There are some things that I do like about her, but her negatives (in my opinion) outweigh the positives.  She gives me the same creepy feeling that I used to get about Huckabee, I don't have a problem with religious people per se, but I do have a problem when they are in a position to use those views to influence public policy, especially on gay rights.  Time will tell if my perceptions are valid or flawed.

I don't post about Obama/Bidens positions on gay rights, because generally they're crap.  Until I see a party actually become pro-active on those issues, I will hold to that opinion.  But just because I post on Republican positions and not the Democratic ones doesn't mean that I'm blind to their position or that I'm giving a pass, but I do like to highlight the hypocrisy of a party/ideology that advocates the removal of government influence in our lives using legislation and constitutional amendments to limit or deny me and others like me a basic human right.  I guess I'm a cynic in that sense.

One of these days I'll post my thoughts on how Goldwater conservatism morphed into this conservatism that we have today, which is less of a governmental conservatism than a social one.

BT

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 09:56:39 AM »
The purpose of my query was not to lock you into a candidate. Obama or McCain, follow your instincts.

My query was more conversational. I know and you know both parties pander to whomever will get them votes.

But I do see a lot of damning of the GOP for their position vis a vis the definition of marriage but i don't see a lot of posting about dems who advocate one thing and then vote in the opposite direction.

And I just wanted to know if you observed the same thing.

Consider it a reality check on my part. Validation of my own observations if you will.




Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 10:26:22 AM »
I see a whole bunch of diehard rightwingers poised to be sore losers no matter what President Obama does.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 10:43:07 AM »
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I see a whole bunch of diehard rightwingers poised to be sore losers no matter what President Obama does.

Payback's a mother

sirs

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2008, 10:55:37 AM »
Boy, ain't that gonna be the truth.  There was not a damn thing Bush ever got credit for, and it started even before he even took office.   "Stolen election" and it's offshoots for 8 years, and not 1 piece of positive acknowledgement.  In the dictionary under "sore losers", you might see a picture of a "diehard leftwinger"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2008, 10:58:14 AM »
<<I trust him to break with the far right more than I trust Obama to break with the far left.  >>

THAT'S what drives me nuts - - the false equivalency made between McCain and his ties to the far right and Obama and his "ties" to the "far left."

Obama doesn't have "ties" to the far left - - Ayers was somebody he met long after his (Ayers') days of bombing and armed struggle were over, Wright was his preacher with whom he felt comfortable for many years, and whose angry rhetoric, as Obama made clear in one of his most memorable speeches, was pretty much standard-issue in many black churches, and Khalidi was an interesting and intelligent professor who, as a fellow academic, Obama socialized with and sometimes benefited from his baby-sitting.  NONE of these guys were active in any way in Obama's Presidential aspirations or campaign.  Apart from the inspiration that Wright may have provided, none of them played any key role in Obama's ascent.

McCain, OTOH, has a long and ugly history of right-wing and even terrorist associations, from the World Anti-Communist League, a haven for Nazis and Nazi collaborators, sponsor of Central American death squads, and contributor to the Nicaraguan Contras, on whose American affiliate's Board of Directors McCain served, to crooks like Charles Keating and far-right preachers like John Hagee, whose endorsement McCain was forced to spurn only after Hagee proclaimed that Adolf Hitler had been doing "the Lord's work."  This rabble wasn't some casual series of happenstance connections, they were all integral to the advancement of McCain's career.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2008, 11:07:21 AM »
 "Stolen election" and it's offshoots for 8 years, and not 1 piece of positive acknowledgement.

The election WAS stolen, Juniorbush got fewer votes

Other than his AIDS assistance, Juniorbush has been eight long years of utterly unprecedented incompetence, stubborness, and hatefulness.

He lied his way into a war he had no idea of how to end, and then did zip to keep the economy going. His preformance was so utterly pitiful that his own party refused to have him attend its convention, mentioned him about twice, and nominated a bogus "maverick" to run against his miserable record.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2008, 11:16:03 AM »
See what I mean?....the epitome of a sore loser
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: How Many Laws Can One Break?
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2008, 11:48:56 AM »
Is any valid criticism of Bush possible (i.e., has he done ANYTHING wrong?) or is every single thing that XO complained of merely the imaginary grievances of a "sore loser?"

If all the griping is merely "sore losers" being sore, how come all the Republicans are running from Bush as fast as their little legs can take them?  Does that mean that every Republican figures the mass of the American people are themselves either "sore losers" or dumb enough to fall for the "sore losers'" con?  Doesn't say much for the Republicans' respect for the intelligence and wisdom of the people they want to lead.