Author Topic: Troop readiness dangerously low  (Read 4495 times)

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BT

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2008, 11:30:50 PM »
The crux of the article was staff shortage. Re-instituting the draft is one solution, redeploying and slowly building troop strength is another.

You obviously choose to cut and run.

I don't.

You accuse me of attacking because i respond to your posts? Was it not you i was discussing homeschooling, NCLB and the state of public education ? 

And no, i don't care how you feel.

I will, however, evaluate what you think.





kimba1

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2008, 11:36:26 PM »
but isn`t draftee`s more disposable than enlisted?
I know many veteran talking about nam how at the beginning how effective the soldier were compared to later on with draftee`s which pretty much are cannon fodder.
meaning if we do the draft ,we must draft in large numbers to compensate for large number of casualties cause by these less careful kids.

BT

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2008, 11:40:49 PM »
Enlistees and draftees take the same training.

They did back then and they do now.

Advanced training might be available to an enlistee as part of their contract. But that doesn't mean draftees wouldn't be eligible if they showed aptitude.


kimba1

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2008, 11:52:26 PM »
the training is the same but the caliber will be different.
a draftee isn`exactly going through the same selection process as a enlisted.
so shouldn`t there be a higher mortality rate for the drafted?

BT

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2008, 11:56:05 PM »
Quote
the training is the same but the caliber will be different.
a draftee isn`exactly going through the same selection process as a enlisted.

What makes you think that?

Both my brothers went through army basic training, my older brother was drafted. My younger enlisted. Both had the same training, same caliber.




Cynthia

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2008, 02:31:47 AM »
BT,

The way I see it is this. Just because you are the "administrator" here, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are always correct. When you post, you have a sort of tone that patronizes a bit. I have known this since we started out in teh saloon...and that's ok...but, there are times, when it's not so comfortable for me, and I have to say something about it here.

I had suggested, albeit IN THE WRONG AVENUE, that I thought perhaps that we could explore the debate posts/threads  in a format of more of a "discussion" tone  . instead of
===

 a --- YOU're Wrong..

I'm RIGht----  kind of tone.



Anyway, When you post something to a person..ok, to me....I get the feeling that you are SETTING ME STRAIGHT all according to BT! Instead of engaging me in a discussion respecting me as a free thinking individual who happens to disagree with you.



No damn big deal...but I had to express my thoughts here about this..lest you blast my butt for speaking up a bit.

I have had a lot to say about my passions in many a venue especially education. We disagree, but when you speak up about the topic, you are there for the "kill", as I sense it. I would just like to be respected more as a person who has experience or knowledge in my own right....in this saloon. 
I am not here to bash you. I admire you, Bill, I do.

But, sometimes, it's just hard for me to go up against you because I feel that there's no way to stop on the break without getting a ticket for running a red light that I clearly did NOT RUN.

You are a security guard of sorts here, sure you have to be. You are the administrator...but that's your job description and there it should stop.

I know others will not agree with me here, because you probably don't talk down to them as I FEEL you do to me. Your need to fight to the last bite in order to stay on top has just been a bit difficult for me sometimes..that's all I am saying.


I know you call it like you see it.....but you know what, so do I.

I learn so very much on this board.


I am not the smartest brick on this wall, but I have no problem admitting so.

Ok....For what it's worth, I hope I dont' get fired for these remarks. ha!
Now, I want to be able to talk with others in this forum and disagree, as I am sure we will. Perhaps, I just need to take your posts with more caution.

You're not being anything other than yourself. I know.

Ok just some thoughts,
Thanks for your time, BT

Cindy

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2008, 09:25:25 AM »
Sorry, but there is no way there will be a draft until Al Qaeda comes swarming over the boarders, a-waving their scimitars to the cry of Allahoo Akbar!

There are two choices.

Leave Iraq and military imperialism and save whatever shreds of dignity they can in Afghanistan. or keep losing troops with a shrinking army as smarter young people decide that this is just not worth dying for. Untied Christians and RR could always enlist, but somehow, I doubt that their patriotism surpasses dialing in Rush.

Iraq: a bad idea to start with, a worse idea to continue. TWO turds in a punchbowl, two farts in a diving bell do not make for better punch.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2008, 12:11:05 PM »
i think it's more of the "lets fight elsewhere, lets get ready for another battle, lets fight the real war on terror"

which is a fraud

always words but no action

they dont wanna confront the enemy anywhere

What enemy?

The problem is very, very low morale primarily thanks to your buddies at KBR and Blackwater and Donnie Rumsfeld. The Democratic Congress really f***ed up with their good intentions and shortening the active duty time for the Reservists. It basically forces them to do all of the necessary training right before they mobilize.

Iraq is an incredibly boring duty with extremely mundane activities that just happen to get very dangerous every once in a while. There is no booze or pornography allowed on post and MP's contantly do searches and seizures. The only prostitution is from a few female soldiers who are making a fortune with some "capitalist enterprise." It is hot as hell, sand fleas, ticks, and an all-around shitty duty where if you over-eat you can gain enough weight, get a discharge, and take a job doing the exact same work for KBR or Blackwater and make 3-6 times what you made "defending our freedom."

Nice.

So yeah, there are serious problems in the US Army. Likely they aren't budget problems, I'll grant that. But this war is killing the Army.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2008, 12:39:15 PM »
"What enemy?"

she says it better than me:

WHAT PART OF THE WAR ON TERRORISM DO THEY SUPPORT?

This year's Democratic plan for the future is another inane sound bite designed to trick American voters into trusting them with national security.

To wit, they're claiming there is no connection between the war on terror and the war in Iraq, and while they're all for the war against terror "absolutely in favor of that war" they are adamantly opposed to the Iraq war. You know, the war where the U.S. military is killing thousands upon thousands of terrorists (described in the media as "Iraqi civilians," even if they are from Jordan, like the now-dead leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi). That war.

As Howard Dean put it this week, "The occupation in Iraq is costing American lives and hampering our ability to fight the real global war on terror."

This would be like complaining that Roosevelt's war in Germany was hampering our ability to fight the real global war on fascism. Or anti-discrimination laws were hampering our ability to fight the real war on racism. Or dusting is hampering our ability to fight the real war on dust.

Maybe Dean is referring to a different globe, like Mars or Saturn, or one of those new planets they haven't named yet.

Assuming against all logic and reason that the Democrats have some serious objection to the war in Iraq, perhaps they could tell us which part of the war on terrorism they do support. That would be easier than rattling off the long list of counterterrorism measures they vehemently oppose.

They oppose the National Security Agency listening to people who are calling specific phone numbers found on al-Qaida cell phones and computers. Spying on al-Qaida terrorists is hampering our ability to fight the global war on terror!

Enraged that the Bush administration deferred to the safety of the American people rather than the obstructionist Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court, one Clinton-appointed judge, James Robertson, resigned from the FISA court in protest over the NSA spying program.

Democratic Sen. Russell Feingold called for a formal Senate censure of President Bush when he found out the president was rude enough to be listening in on al-Qaida phone calls. (Wait until Feingold finds out the White House has been visiting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's "MySpace" page!)

Last week a federal judge appointed by Jimmy Carter ruled the NSA program to surveil phone calls to al-Qaida members in other counties unconstitutional.

Democrats oppose the detainment of Taliban and al-Qaida soldiers at our military base in Guantanamo, Cuba. Democrats such as Rep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, have called for Guantanamo to be shut down.

The Guantanamo detainees are not innocent insurance salesmen imprisoned in some horrible mix-up like something out of a Perry Mason movie. The detainees were captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan. You remember ? the war liberals pretended to support right up until approximately one nanosecond after John Kerry conceded the 2004 election to President Bush.

But apparently, imprisoning al-Qaida warriors we catch on the battlefield is hampering our ability to fight the global war on terror.

Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin has compared Guantanamo to Nazi concentration camps and Soviet gulags, based on a report that some detainees were held in temperatures so cold that they shivered and others were forced to listen to loud rap music ? more or less approximating the conditions in the green room at "The Tyra Banks Show." Also, one of the detainees was given a badminton racket that was warped.

New York Times columnist Bob Herbert complained this week that detainees in Guantanamo have "no hope of being allowed to prove their innocence." (I guess that's excluding the hundreds who have been given administrative hearings or released already.)

Of course all the usual "human rights" groups are carping about how brutally our servicemen in Guantanamo are treating the little darlings who are throwing feces at them.

Democrats oppose the Patriot Act, the most important piece of legislation passed since 9/11, designed to make the United States less of a theme park for would-be terrorists.

The vast majority of Senate Democrats (43-2) voted against renewing the Patriot Act last December, whereupon their minority leader, Sen. Harry Reid, boasted: "We killed the Patriot Act" , a rather unusual sentiment for a party so testy about killing terrorists.

In 2004, Sen. John Kerry, the man they wanted to be president called the Patriot Act "an assault on our basic rights." At least all "basic rights" other than the one about not dying a horrible death at the hand of Islamic fascists. Yes, it was as if Congress had deliberately flown two commercial airliners into the twin towers of our Constitution.

They oppose profiling Muslims at airports.

They oppose every bust of a terrorist cell, sneering that the cells in Lackawanna, New York City, Miami, Chicago and London weren't a real threat like, say, a nondenominational prayer before a high school football game. Now that's a threat.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 12:42:28 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2008, 12:48:21 PM »
I'm not going to address the above as it will lead to an amazing amount of questions and tangents. It never answered my question.

What enemy?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2008, 01:09:32 PM »
It never answered my question. What enemy?

Oh yes it absolutely did answer the question.
Just maybe not to your liking.

while they're all for the war against terror "absolutely in favor of that war" they are adamantly opposed to the Iraq war. You know, the war where the U.S. military is killing thousands upon thousands of terrorists.

I would be interested in your answer to this too:

Assuming against all logic and reason that the Democrats have some serious objection to the war in Iraq, perhaps they could tell us which part of the war on terrorism they do support? That would be easier than rattling off the long list of counterterrorism measures they vehemently oppose.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2008, 01:35:28 PM »
It never answered my question. What enemy?

Oh yes it absolutely did answer the question.
Just maybe not to your liking.

while they're all for the war against terror "absolutely in favor of that war" they are adamantly opposed to the Iraq war. You know, the war where the U.S. military is killing thousands upon thousands of terrorists.

I would be interested in your answer to this too:

Assuming against all logic and reason that the Democrats have some serious objection to the war in Iraq, perhaps they could tell us which part of the war on terrorism they do support? That would be easier than rattling off the long list of counterterrorism measures they vehemently oppose.

It is not that it isn't to my liking, it is that we're talking cross purposes. I'm asking you a question. You're giving me an answer in the frame of how the Democrats think.

I don't care about that. The Democrats and Republicans are political parties. Despite what their loyal supporters say, they both watch the public opinion polls like hawks watching a field mouse. You're trying to apply logic to a system (the US political system) that doesn't function within a rigid logical framework. It functions just as the Roman Republic functioned - mob rule. Welcome to democracy. It is insidiously stupid and incredibly irrational.

Still, I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1. We're not killing "thousands of terrorists" in Iraq. We're killing insurgents. If that is too much semantics for you, consider the fact that none of these "terrorists" would have ever been a threat to the United States (or anywhere) had we never invaded Iraq. Note the name of General Petraeus' field manual for the US Army: Counterinsurgency not Counter-Terrorism. This is not a "War on Terror."

Does that make the Democrats right? No, because it goes back to politics. Someone needs the grapes to say that the entire concept of a "War on Terror" is ridiculous.

2. Some of the counter-terrorism bullets you mentioned are too broad, others are just flat out immoral. Profiling Muslims? What does that even mean? Are you going to strip search Muhammed Ali? Gitmo is a farce and defies everything this country has ever stood for (even at a facade level). The people that were "released" as you say, were released after years of imprisonment. They weren't allowed contact with spouses, lawyers, anyone. Many were detained on evidence that would have never stood in a court of law or even a military court. We destroyed lives and what compensation did these individuals get (got to love the "individual liberty" of the right wing)? A form letter with a half-ass apology. Sometimes not even that.

And yet, Christians supported this as well as extraordinary rendition? Nice. WWJD indeed!
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Cynthia

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2008, 02:10:25 PM »
God, I love this board.

March on....guys...March on.



 ;D





Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2008, 02:21:21 PM »
We're not killing "thousands of terrorists" in Iraq. We're killing insurgents.
If that is too much semantics for you, consider the fact that none of these "terrorists" would have ever been a threat to the United States (or anywhere) had we never invaded Iraq.


#1.
I dont think that is true.
I think we are in WW3 being currently fought primarily by proxies of the two sides.
So I believe we are killing the enemy in Iraq.
We can fight them in Iraq or some place else.
They are not going away.

#2.
Even if that were true "if we had not invaded Iraq"
But we did!
We are in Iraq.
al-Qaida is now in Iraq that is reality ("if we hadn't invaded" is not reality)
al-Qaida is constantly announcing how important the battle of Iraq is.
The Left said "see we shouldn't have invaded the enemy wasn't in Iraq.
Ok, but we did, and the enemy is there.
But the Left still wants to "cut & run".
So in reality, it doesn't matter whether the enemy is there or not.
The Left wants to run away.

Where does the Left want to confront the enemy?
Should we allow the other side of the proxy war to topple Israel?
Topple Saudi Arabia?
Topple Egypt?
Topple Kuwait?
Topple UAE?
Topple Lebanon?
Should we allow the other side of this proxy war to roam freely toppling governments?
Lets say all the above happens over the nexxt decade after we "pull back".
Then what?
Whats your plan then?

There is one Islamic Theocracy now.
Exporting terror, military might, insurgency, ect...
Whats gonna happen if instead of 1 Islamic Theocracy doing it, we have 10 Islamic Theocracies doing it?
Maybe all with nukes.
What then?


Note the name of General Petraeus' field manual for the US Army:
Counterinsurgency not Counter-Terrorism. This is not a "War on Terror."


Are you denying that counterinsurgency can not be a part of the War on Terror?
which by the way should be re-named the The War With Radical Islam.

The name of the Petraeus manual is a name for a specific battle strategy within the War on Terror
but could also probably be used in other situations. It's basically a game-plan within a larger
picture.

Someone needs the grapes to say that the entire concept of a "War on Terror" is ridiculous.

So what is your solution to a movement called radical Islam that threatens governments all over the world?

What specifically would you do to counter radical Islam and Iran?

I know, I know, deny it exists.
It'll all just go away, yeah sure.


2. Some of the counter-terrorism bullets you mentioned are too broad, others are just flat out immoral. Profiling Muslims? What does that even mean? Are you going to strip search Muhammed Ali? Gitmo is a farce and defies everything this country has ever stood for (even at a facade level). The people that were "released" as you say, were released after years of imprisonment. They weren't allowed contact with spouses, lawyers, anyone. Many were detained on evidence that would have never stood in a court of law or even a military court. We destroyed lives and what compensation did these individuals get (got to love the "individual liberty" of the right wing)? A form letter with a half-ass apology. Sometimes not even that.

Yes sometimes when under attack people do what the have to do.

See Abe Lincoln:

That the Writ of Habeas Corpus is suspended in respect to all persons arrested, or who are now, or hereafter during the rebellion shall be, imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or other place of confinement by any military authority of by the sentence of any Court Martial or Military Commission

And yet, Christians supported this as well as extraordinary rendition? Nice. WWJD indeed!

Yes absolutely, and proudly I might add.
I think surrender is a disgrace.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 02:25:13 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Troop readiness dangerously low
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2008, 03:25:34 PM »
There is no such thing as a "war on terrorism", anymore than there could ba a 'war on poverty', a 'war on drugs', or a 'war on cholesterol'

You cannot fight a war on an abstract noun. Removing the Taliban from Afghanistan was a piece of cake, because medieval Muslims can't actually run a country or defend it. What these bozos CALL the 'war on terrorism' is a war to deprive citizens of their rights and privacy under the pretext that they are being protected, ad it's pretty much bogus. Had the Sup[reme Court not stuck a moron on the throne, and had anyone of reasonable competence been National Security Advisor other than obsolete Soviet Scholar Condi Rice, there would have been no 9-11.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."