Author Topic: Out of the frying pan...  (Read 1059 times)

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hnumpah

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Out of the frying pan...
« on: July 31, 2008, 07:27:09 AM »
Quagmire Exchange
by Charley Reese

If Barack Obama's idea of ending the occupation in Iraq is to transfer most of the troops to Afghanistan, he won't have accomplished much. He's right that we should not be in Iraq, but we also shouldn't be in Afghanistan.

Our sole interest in Afghanistan should be to get Osama bin Laden. After that, we should bring our guys home. It's none of our business what kind of government Afghanistan has or if it even has a government.

In case you've forgotten, the northern warlords seized Kabul after the Russians left. Their looting and brutality caused many Afghans to look with favor on the young men of the Taliban. The Taliban whipped the warlords and began to rule the country with their iron-fisted version of Islam.

It's no mystery why they extended a welcome to bin Laden. He had played a prominent part in the fight against the Soviets. He was a wealthy young man and could easily have spent his time in the world's best resorts. But he picked up a rifle and his checkbook and fought against the Russians.

So when the Bush administration demanded that they hand over bin Laden, the Taliban refused. It was in part a matter of hospitality. The laws of hospitality in that part of the world obligate you to defend your guests. The Taliban didn't have a chance. The country had been in a state of war for nearly two decades, and much of it was just rubble salted with land mines.

We bribed the warlords to provide the ground troops while our air power, guided by Green Beret or Seal spotters, bombed the bejeebers out of them. The Taliban had no air defense. It was all over pretty quickly, except for two big flubs.

The leader of the Taliban escaped, as did bin Laden. By then, the Bush administration had turned its attention to Iraq and Saddam Hussein, who had no truck with terrorists or with the attack on the U.S. Saddam supported the Palestinians in their struggle for independence, but he disliked the Syrian government and hated the Iranians.

Nevertheless, the Bushies were determined to invade Iraq, and consequently both the Taliban leader and bin Laden remained free. And they are still free. The kernel of this nut is that the people who planned the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were inconvenienced but not punished. In the meantime, President Bush's obsession with Saddam cost 4,000 Americans lives and landed us in a quagmire.

Now, five years later, the Bush people are wringing their little hands that the situation in Afghanistan has gone to Hades, and in typical American fashion, both Bush and Obama seem to think the only answer is more troops. It's funny, in a morbid sort of way. Bush was wood-post ignorant of Iraq, and apparently Obama is wood-post ignorant of Afghanistan.

The Afghans are a people who rather enjoy fighting. It's been said that if they run out of foreigners to fight, they will fight each other. It would take more troops than we have to occupy Afghanistan, which is about the size of Texas. It is run by the warlords and is a major producer of opium. Corruption is rampant.

Obama needs to be forced to come clean and spell out in specific detail exactly what he wishes to accomplish in Afghanistan and how much blood and treasure he's willing for the American people to spend to get it. He needs to be forced to tell the American people what, if any, benefits they will get in exchange for the lost lives and tax dollars.

Obama is younger, smarter and better educated than John McCain, but that said, he is your standard political liberal and opportunist. Swapping one quagmire for another is hardly a brilliant foreign policy.



July 26, 2008



The only problem with spelling out exactly what his plans are for Afghanistan is that it would merely be another campaign promise, and we all know what happens with those.

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Out of the frying pan...
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 11:00:12 AM »
Our sole interest in Afghanistan should be to get Osama bin Laden. After that, we should bring our guys home. It's none of our business what kind of government Afghanistan has or if it even has a government.

================================
I think I disagree. The US can probably stabilize Afghanistan with not too much difficulty, especially if they do not go ape on eliminating opium. They should leave Afghanistan with a stable government and then remove the troops.

When the Russians finally left, half the country was under 15 years old, and very few had any education whatever. The result was the Taliban takeover, Al Qaeda and 9-11. The US could have avoided this, but did nothing.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Out of the frying pan...
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 11:43:46 PM »

I agree with you XO.

I must reexamine my thinking.


The Taliban stomped on the Opium Crop enough to make the rest of the world thank them , how can we get that back?


http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/ask/60828.htm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/af.html

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Out of the frying pan...
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 11:47:13 PM »
Afghanistan is a very poor country. There are few crops that can be grown and marketed abroad at such a high profit as opium.

The current world food crisis is making grains (barley and oats and perhaps millet will grow in Afghanistan) a lot more expensive. But at the moment, opium is not the major issue: the Taliban and Al Qaeda are.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Out of the frying pan...
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2008, 12:37:59 AM »
Afghanistan is a very poor country. There are few crops that can be grown and marketed abroad at such a high profit as opium.

The current world food crisis is making grains (barley and oats and perhaps millet will grow in Afghanistan) a lot more expensive. But at the moment, opium is not the major issue: the Taliban and Al Qaeda are.


In India most of the worlds leagally grown Opium poppys are grown on licensed farms.
Won't these Opium feilds cause us to come in conflict even if everything elese goes well?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Out of the frying pan...
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 11:43:45 AM »
In India most of the worlds leagally grown Opium poppys are grown on licensed farms.
Won't these Opium feilds cause us to come in conflict even if everything elese goes well?
   

Afghanistan has ALWAYS grown opium, since the 1800's. If it's a problem, it hardly requires an invasion and overthrow of the government.

As for India, what does that have to do with it?

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Out of the frying pan...
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 04:11:05 PM »
In India most of the worlds leagally grown Opium poppys are grown on licensed farms.
Won't these Opium feilds cause us to come in conflict even if everything elese goes well?
   

Afghanistan has ALWAYS grown opium, since the 1800's. If it's a problem, it hardly requires an invasion and overthrow of the government.

As for India, what does that have to do with it?



India  controlls poppy production the government buys the harvest and doesn't allow anyone to plant without government liscense.

I wonder what it would cost to buy the whole poppy crop out from under the smugglers?