Slippery Slope

[Michael Tee]

<<Mikey, I'm OK with those types of assassinations but only when adults occupy the White House.>>

The Constitution requires a President to be, IIRC, 35 years of age at least, so they're always gonna be adults, Kramer.  But my question is why?  How come you don't trust the government to run a fucking candy store but you think they can take over the function of a judge, jury, prosecutor, defence counsel and court of appeal?  Why is that?

Second question - - can the same people have the same power of life and death over U.S. citizens inside the U.S. borders?  Are you OK with that too?

[Plane]

<<This is absolutely availible to the entire Al Queda , including Osama Bin Laden , it only requires that they surrender themselves to responsible authoritys.>>

Basically, my slippery slope comment referred specifically to the assassination of American citizens abroad by Dennis Blair or his employees.  Technically, the one American citizen who was killed by a drone attack in Yemen was in a car on a highway, driving from point A to point B.  There was no "combat" going on,..........

Start over from right there, since 9-11 when have we been at combat with Al Quieda?



Getting shot in your car is exactly what happened to Clyde Barrow , were his rights abridged?

[Kramer]

<<Mikey, I'm OK with those types of assassinations but only when adults occupy the White House.>>

The Constitution requires a President to be, IIRC, 35 years of age at least, so they're always gonna be adults, Kramer.  But my question is why?  How come you don't trust the government to run a fucking candy store but you think they can take over the function of a judge, jury, prosecutor, defence counsel and court of appeal?  Why is that?

Second question - - can the same people have the same power of life and death over U.S. citizens inside the U.S. borders?  Are you OK with that too?

well mike as of late I'M disillusioned with our government both DeM & Rep.

I don't trust any of them:
ADA - Americans with Disabilities Act
AMT - Alternative Minimum Tax
CAN-SPAM - Controlling the Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography and Marketing Act of 2003
CFR - Council on Foreign Relations
CIA - Central Intelligence Agency
COG - Continuity of Government
DARPA - Defense Advanced Researchs Progect Agency (www.darpa.mil)
DEA - Drug Enforcement Agency
DOD - Department of Defense
DOE - Department Of Energy
DOL - Department of Labor
DOT - Department of Transportation
DUI - Driving Under the Influence
DWI - Driving While Intoxicated
EPA - Environmental Protection Agency
EPRI - Electric Power Research Institute
ESA - European Space Agency
EU - European Union
FAR - Federal Acquisition Regulation
FBI - Federal Bureau of Investigation
FCC - Federal Communications Commission
FDA - Food and Drug Administration
FDIC - Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
FEMA - Federal Emergency Management Agency
FERPA - Family Educational Records Privacy Act
FLSA - Fair Labor Standards Act
FREDDIE MAC - Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation
FTC - Federal Trade Commission
GDP - Gross Domestic Product
GINNIE MAE - Government National Mortgage Association
GNP - Gross National Product
GOP - Grand Old Party
HONDA - Home School Non-Discrimination Act
HUD - U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development
JCS - Joint Chiefs of Staff
OSHA - Occupational Safety and Health Administration OR Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970
PC - Politically Correct
NAFTA - North American Free Trade Agreement
NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration
NCIS - National Criminal Intelligence Service (U.K.)
NDIU - National Drugs Intelligence Unit (U.K.)
NSA - National Security Agency
NSC - National Security Council
RICO - Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Act
SBA - Small Business Administration
SLORC - State Law and Order Restoration Council
SOCA - Serious Organised Crime Agency (U.K.)
SSA - Social Security Administration
SSN - Social Security Number
SWAT - Special Weapons and Tactics
TIN - Tax Identification Number
UDHR - Universal Declaration on Human Rights
UN - United Nations
UNEP - United Nations Environment Program
UNFPA - United Nations Fund for Population Activities (see www.unfpa.org)
USA PATRIOT
USAF - United States Air Force
USDA - United States Department of Agriculture
USGS - United States Geological Survey
USPS - United States Postal Service
UGMA - Uniform Gifts To Minors Act
UTMA - Uniform Transfers To Minors Act

[Michael Tee]

<<Start over from right there, since 9-11 when have we been at combat with Al Quieda?>>

plane, I don't even know what that question means, but I will start over again:

1.  An American citizen is a passenger in a car on a road in the middle of the desert in Yemen.  We don't know if he's armed and we will assume that nobody in the car is shooting at anyone and nobody outside the car is shooting at them.

2.  An American  predator appears in the sky above the car.

3.  Dennis Blair or one of his employees decides that the American citizen and the other people in the car need to die.

4.  A signal is given in Dennis Blair's or his employee's office and the predator blows the car up, killing the American citizen.

So my questions are, if the American citizen was a combatant, who was he in combat with?  And how can you be content that the representative of the American government, which you don't trust to run an automobile company, social security, public health or a fucking candy store, can have the power to decide that this American citizen should be killed without a trial, a judge or a jury?


<<Getting shot in your car is exactly what happened to Clyde Barrow , were his rights abridged?>>

Probably yes, but can we discuss the case of Dennis Blair and his licence to kill American citizens without getting bogged down in the details of Clyde Barrow's case, about which we probably both know almost nothing?

[sirs]

<<This is absolutely availible to the entire Al Queda , including Osama Bin Laden , it only requires that they surrender themselves to responsible authoritys.>>

Basically, my slippery slope comment referred specifically to the assassination of American citizens abroad by Dennis Blair or his employees.  Technically, the one American citizen who was killed by a drone attack in Yemen was in a car on a highway, driving from point A to point B.  There was no "combat" going on, no evidence even that the guy was armed for combat and it's only by the most twisted and artificial distortion of the plain meaning of words that it could be claimed the guy was in combat or even a "combatant" let alone an "enemy" combatant when he was a citizen of the United States of America.

"Citizen of the U.S.A." does NOT grant one immunity from being targeted by military, if its been determined such a person was funtioning in the capacity or working with elements of those trying to kill Americans, or other coalition forces.  Again, that's been done in every war, both modern and historically.  No judge, no jury, no defense.  They don't have to be "in combat", merely determined to be working with those who are.

In other words, there is no "slope" here, as we have 2 completely different mountain ranges.  The one Tee is trying to apply is criminal activity.  The one Blair is referencing is that of military actions, in a state of war

[Plane]

1.  An American citizen is a passenger in a car on a road in the middle of the forest in Germany.  We don't know if he's armed and we will assume that nobody in the car is shooting at anyone and nobody outside the car is shooting at them. The Year is 1944

2.  An American  B -24 appears in the sky above the car.

3.  General LeMay or one of his employees decides that the American citizen and the other people in the car need to die.

4.  A signal is given in General LeMay or his employee's office and the B-24 blows the car up, killing the American citizen.

[Michael Tee]

<< . . . 4.  A signal is given in General LeMay or his employee's office and the B-24 blows the car up, killing the American citizen.>>

That's a good point, plane.  The differences are: 

1.  The U.S. and Germany are at war.  Germany declared war on the U.S.A. when the U.S.A. declared war on Japan.
2.  The American was in a car in a forest in Germany, a nation with which the U.S.A.  was at war.

OTOH,
1.  The U.S.A. is not at war with Yemen.
2.  The American therefore was not in "enemy territory" without authorization; he was in a country he had every right to be in.  If he was there to pursue illegal activity, it should be decided on a more stringent basis of proof tnan whatever Dennis Blair or his employees happen to think.

In effect, you're saying that once an American citizen leaves the U.S., his life is in the hands of Dennis Blair and his workers,, not a judge and jury.

So my questions are, how come you can trust the US government civil service with the lives of any US citizen outside the borders of the US when you don't even trust the US government civil service to run a candy store?  and, why not use the same principle INSIDE the US, where the guy is much closer to his targets if he is in fact an "enemy combatant?"  (That was what I meant by "slippery slope.")

[Rich]

Actually what he's saying is, once you've joined a terrorist group, particpate in planning and carrying out terrorist acts against America and it's allies, you can expect to catch a missle at anytime.

Dumbass. Get your no fly notice yet?

[Michael Tee]

<<Actually what he's saying is, once you've joined a terrorist group, particpate in planning and carrying out terrorist acts against America and it's allies, you can expect to catch a missle at anytime.>>

Yeah, and what I'm saying is that this is quite a departure for the American citizen who until now had expected to have certain little safeguards in place, like trial by jury and an appellate review court, before his government could arbitrarily take away his life.

But I'm sure a crypto-Nazi like you is already jerking off at the prospects of the government being able to execute sentence of death on its own citizens without such pesky little nuisances as trials, juries and appeals.

<<Dumbass. Get your no fly notice yet?>>

You'll be the first one to know, Rich.  But don't hold your breath.

[sirs]

<<Actually what he's saying is, once you've joined a terrorist group, particpate in planning and carrying out terrorist acts against America and it's allies, you can expect to catch a missle at anytime.>>

Yeah, and what I'm saying is that this is quite a departure for the American citizen who until now had expected to have certain little safeguards in place, like trial by jury and an appellate review court, before his government could arbitrarily take away his life.

That's because said "American Citizen" is no longer functioning in the capacity of a criminal.  He's now graduated to the level of enemy combatant.  Just as any other soldier/collaborator, in any other war had to face.  Ergo, no departure of any kind here.  Boy, haven't seen material this dense since our bathroom countertop remodel

 

[Christians4LessGvt]

the prospects of the government being able to execute sentence of death on its own citizens without such pesky little nuisances as trials, juries and appeals.

Michael are you saying that if a predator is dispatched with solid info that Osama Bin Laden is
sitting in a vehicle in a field in Yemen & two of his riding buddies are American citizen members
of Al-Qaida that we should not fire the missle?

[Xavier_Onassis]

This is a highly unlikely scenario. It would not be much more unlikely of Paris Hilton were riding in the trunk. With her pet Chihuahua.

[Michael Tee]

<<& two of his riding buddies are American citizen members
of Al-Qaida that we should not fire the missle? >>

Solid info?  Every fucking cop in America has "solid info" about somebody.  THAT'S what American citizens can lose their lives to, some bureaucrat's "solid info?"

You gotta be fucking nuts, CU4.  For centuries Americans, and for centuries before that, Englishmen, had the right to a trial by jury before their lives could be taken away by their government, and now you're ready to abolish a citizen's right to be judged by a jury of his peers, in a trial conducted by a judge, with appellate court review, all that to be replaced by "solid info" in the hands of some fucking government bureaucrat???

Sorry to say, CU4, but YOU are a bigger threat to America than any fucking "terrorist" because only Americans can do to American civil liberties what you are proposing to do to them.  Death by bureaucracy, death by "solid information."  Anyone who believes in that while at the same time believing that the government can't run a candy store is crazier than a fucking bedbug.

[Christians4LessGvt]

So Michael....in a war...if some US citizens join the other side...we are to "call off the dogs" and not attack the enemy because when we bomb the enemy there are some US Citizens traitors among them? And you call me "F-ing crazy"? Don't advance on Hitler because woe low and behold there are some Americans that have joined up with Hitler?.....LOL

ps: BTW your Boy Obama....I doubt he is checking the citizenship of the enemy he is bombing the hell out of!

Look at these Obama numbers....he is going full boar!
http://www.longwarjournal.org/pakistan-strikes.php

[Rich]

>>Yeah, and what I'm saying is that this is quite a departure for the American citizen who until now had expected to have certain little safeguards in place<<

You're a fucking idiot. I'm sure the first thing radicalized American terrorists are thinking is, " They can't get me here, and if they do they won't kill me. I have certain protections."

You're not only an idiot your a fucking fool.