Al Gore Facts

[BT]

You're using a buzzword like "rationing" in order to set up some fantasy of people standing in line to get aspirin when that is not even remotely the case.

They do the same thing as what you're talking about now but they don't call it rationing.  It's just plain old fashioned planning.

Been to an HMO lately?

Service is rationed.

Same way at the VA.

[_JS]

You can have a Federal system that is administered on a local or state level.

You're creating a strawman Bt. Canada is an excellent example of a system run and administered on the provincial level under a federal mandate. Britain has local NHS Trusts. No one is suggesting that we ignore the needs of local communities.

Sirs, I've not read any serious attorney who suggests that a constitutional amendment is required for universal healthcare any more than it was required for Medicare, Medicaid, GI Bill, Interstate Highways, the war on drugs, etc.

[BT]

ou can have a Federal system that is administered on a local or state level.

Medicaid is state administered.

And i don't want a federal program. I want it locally funded and controlled.

[sirs]

Sirs, I've not read any serious attorney who suggests that a constitutional amendment is required for universal healthcare any more than it was required for Medicare, Medicaid, GI Bill, Interstate Highways, the war on drugs, etc.

Did you miss the part where I conceded that many a Legislative & Executive body have overstepped their bounds to impliment Federal mandates that should never have been made to be Federal mandates??  It still does NOT refute what should absolutely be made Constitutional IF it's the wish for the Fed to PROVIDE UHC vs simply promote it

[_JS]

And i don't want a federal program. I want it locally funded and controlled.

Yeah. So? That's why we have elections, correct? I could see a system of universal healthcare run as a mandate to the states. There are a myriad of options and possibilities. The NHS is only one of many such systems.

Did you miss the part where I conceded that many a Legislative & Executive body have overstepped their bounds to impliment Federal mandates that should never have been made to be Federal mandates??  It still does NOT refute what should absolutely be made Constitutional IF it's the wish for the Fed to PROVIDE UHC vs simply promote it

No. The burden is on you to prove that it does require a constitutional amendment. The courts have not suggested that it does. I've yet to see any of the other acts (to which you conceded) that have been negated by the Supreme Court. Until that happens they are constitutionally permissible.

You show me the Supreme Court case that proves otherwise and you'll have an argument. You are arguing ex nihilo and you've got to do better than that.

[BT]

Yeah. So? That's why we have elections, correct?

Yeah. And it seems to me it is easier to convince  a smaller group of citizens with shared interests and get passed into law through a referendum than it is to convince an entire nation with diverse interests the correctness of your position. Probably less expensive too.

[_JS]

Yeah. So? That's why we have elections, correct?

Yeah. And it seems to me it is easier to convince  a smaller group of citizens with shared interests and get passed into law through a referendum than it is to convince an entire nation with diverse interests the correctness of your position. Probably less expensive too.

Maybe, then again maybe not.

Poll finds 51% of Republicans favor Universal Health Care

[BT]

Maybe, then again maybe not.

Poll finds 51% of Republicans favor Universal Health Care

Good . Those 51% can influence their state legislatures.

How do you propose to pay for the program on a federal level?

At the state level it can easily be done with sales taxes.

[sirs]

Did you miss the part where I conceded that many a Legislative & Executive body have overstepped their bounds to impliment Federal mandates that should never have been made to be Federal mandates??  It still does NOT refute what should absolutely be made Constitutional IF it's the wish for the Fed to PROVIDE UHC vs simply promote it

No. The burden is on you to prove that it does require a constitutional amendment.

PROVIDE for the Common Defense, while simply PROMOTING the General Welfare.  BIG BLACK & WHITE Lettering.  Can't miss it.  I can give you their definitions, if you wish

[_JS]

Maybe, then again maybe not.

Poll finds 51% of Republicans favor Universal Health Care

Good . Those 51% can influence their state legislatures.

How do you propose to pay for the program on a federal level?

At the state level it can easily be done with sales taxes.

Last time I checked those 51% get to vote in Federal elections too Bt.

Well, we can reap a lot of savings from Medicare, Medicaid, VA health programs, all that money that used to go to paying for health insurance premiums...

I bet I can figure something out

[_JS]

Did you miss the part where I conceded that many a Legislative & Executive body have overstepped their bounds to impliment Federal mandates that should never have been made to be Federal mandates??  It still does NOT refute what should absolutely be made Constitutional IF it's the wish for the Fed to PROVIDE UHC vs simply promote it

No. The burden is on you to prove that it does require a constitutional amendment.

PROVIDE for the Common Defense, while simply PROMOTING the General Welfare.  BIG BLACK & WHITE Lettering.  Can't miss it.  I can give you their definitions, if you wish

Yawn.

You get back to me with that Supreme Court Case, ya hear.

When you get done with your false libertarian claptrap and present some real arguments I'll be here.

[sirs]

PROVIDE for the Common Defense, while simply PROMOTING the General Welfare.  BIG BLACK & WHITE Lettering.  Can't miss it.  I can give you their definitions, if you wish

Yawn.  You get back to me with that Supreme Court Case, ya hear.

I'll stick with the clear and concise wording of the Constitution, if you don't mind.

[_JS]

So by that definition, we should not have VA hospitals.

[BT]

So by that definition, we should not have VA hospitals.

The VA benefit is different than an entitlement.

[_JS]

It is clearly, by Sirs definition, not providing for common defense.