Author Topic: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts  (Read 1742 times)

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Kramer

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Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« on: September 08, 2008, 12:10:14 PM »
Here's an opinion. A glaring difference between McCain and Obama is each ones ability to maintain composure when the going gets tough. McCain learned something that Obama has not yet learned and is an essential presidential character trait. How to not look & act scared when the going gets tough. Obama's desperation is evident the last past few days with his comments on keeping the tax cuts, his wanting to join the Army after high school and even his error in proclaiming his Muslim faith. Do we want a guy that panics or gets moody when the going gets tough, or someone that wildly grasps at straws? Will our enemies see his weaknesses and take advantage - of course they will. Clearly Obama is emerging a flawed & somewhat immature candidate. If this campaign is proof the mans been tested then I have to declare Obama has failed the test. Sorry Obama supporters but you got the shaft when you veered away from Hillary toward the light but sadly you were fooled by a mirage.


Obama: Recession could delay rescinding tax cuts


WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy.

Nevertheless, Obama has no plans to extend the Bush tax cuts beyond their expiration date, as Republican John McCain advocates. Instead, Obama wants to push for his promised tax cuts for the middle class, he said in a broadcast interview aired Sunday.

"Even if we're still in a recession, I'm going to go through with my tax cuts," Obama said. "That's my priority."

What about increasing taxes on the wealthy?

"I think we've got to take a look and see where the economy is. I mean, the economy is weak right now," Obama said on "This Week" on ABC. "The news with Freddie Mac (FRE) and Fannie Mae (FNM), I think, along with the unemployment numbers, indicates that we're fragile."

Obama was referring to the two mortgage companies taken over by the federal government Sunday in what could become a huge taxpayer bailout. The nation's unemployment rate climbed to 6.1 percent in August from 5.7 percent the month before, the government said last week. It was the first time in five years that the unemployment rate had topped 6 percent.

Obama and McCain have sparred over tax policy for months. Obama says McCain wants to continue Bush administration policies, noting that McCain had voted against the Bush tax cuts but then embraced them as he campaigned for the Republican presidential nomination.

"John McCain likes to talk about fiscal responsibility, but there is no doubt that his proposals blow a hole through the budget," Obama said.

McCain has repeatedly hammered Obama over taxes in an attempt to paint him as a typical tax-and-spend liberal. McCain wants to make permanent the Bush tax cuts, which are set to expire at the end of 2010.

"We can get this economy back on it's feet," McCain said in an interview aired Sunday on "Face the Nation" on CBS. "Don't raise their taxes. Get it going again. Americans are hurting in a way that they have not hurt for a long time."

The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's tax plan would benefit middle-income taxpayers more than McCain's. However, Obama would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year also would see taxes rise.

McCain's plan cuts taxes across all income levels. It would cut taxes for those in the top 1 percent by more than $125,000, raising their after-tax income an average 9.5 percent, the center concluded.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080907/D93228880.html

Plane

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 12:41:06 PM »
One of the wisest things John F. Kennedy did was to advocate sharply reduced taxes on Americas wealthy, the economic benefit was immediate , tho some people attribute the upturn to other factors.

If Obama reads up on history and follows the charts of American economic progress his tax plans may start looking more like McCains.

I think Obama is pretty smart , this is just the sort of thing he might learn on the job.

Kramer

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 12:43:52 PM »
One of the wisest things John F. Kennedy did was to advocate sharply reduced taxes on Americas wealthy, the economic benefit was immediate , tho some people attribute the upturn to other factors.

If Obama reads up on history and follows the charts of American economic progress his tax plans may start looking more like McCains.

I think Obama is pretty smart , this is just the sort of thing he might learn on the job.

If he's just figuring that out where is he on foreign policy learning curve. Yeah I know he went to Europe and gave some speeches but that isn't really the kind of foreign policy experience I'm talking about

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 01:51:43 PM »
One of the wisest things John F. Kennedy did was to advocate sharply reduced taxes on Americas wealthy, the economic benefit was immediate , tho some people attribute the upturn to other factors.

==================================
The wisdom of lowering tax rates depend on the tax rates in question.

After 8 years of Eisenhower-Nixon, tax rates in 1961 were much higher than they are today in percentage terms.

There must be taxes. Taxes at 100% end all productivity by whomever they apply to. There is an ideal rate of taxes that maximizes both revenue and productivity. I see no proof that the tax rates under Clinton were not at or near this figure.

The rich as employers, have greatly benefited from the increases in productivity. Productivity has gone up as must as 50% in recent times, but those doing the work have not come close to getting even a third as much in increased wages and benefits. Who has benefitted the most from increases in benefits? The rich, of course.

It is not as though the guys in the penthouse offices have become 100% or 100% more productive, but their wages and benefits have easily increased this much.

Every year that Roger Smith was president of GM in the 1980's, GM produced crappy cars, lost market share, had lower profits and Roger got a raise several times greater than the annual income of a line worker who did actual physical labor.

Lowering middle class tax rates makes up for their not sharing in the massive increases the rich got due to increases in productivity.

 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 07:59:53 PM »

There must be taxes. Taxes at 100% end all productivity by whomever they apply to. There is an ideal rate of taxes that maximizes both revenue and productivity. I see no proof that the tax rates under Clinton were not at or near this figure.



 

What is this amount?

sirs

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 08:48:37 PM »
Obama is currently....pardon the phrase....ALL over the ballpark right now.  Now he supports tax cuts, and won't raise taxes unless ....the economy is doing poorly, in which case supposedly not rasiing them is a good thing, but apparently in good times, that's when you raise taxes....surge has worked, but he was right, even though nearly all the benchmarks have been met.  Not going to drill, unless we need to drill, we can sell off some of our emergency petroleum reserves, except of course, we're not going to.  McCain hasn't said anything bad about my faith, though he has and its very offensive

It can give someone a migraine
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 08:55:20 PM »
What is this amount?

=======================
The ideal income tax rate seems to start with 0% up to the poverty rate of perhaps $12K for a family of four, then 10-35% from there, in a progressive increase depending on total income.

Everyone, including the very poor, pay around 6.75% to Social Security, with an equal amount paid by the employer. It's not an income tax, but it is a tax.

Nearly ALL of Juniorbush's tax cut went to people with incomes over $150K per year.
Special rates of a piddly 15% were paid on the income of hedge fund managers.

If you want to know the exact rates, go to irs.gov. It;s hardly a secret.



"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 08:57:22 PM »
Until Obama is in the White House and has exact figures on the real debt caused by the Iraq war (much of it is classified or hidden) he will not be able to determine the best course to follow.

I don't think McCain can make a decent evaluation of the situation, either, and for the same reason.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Kramer

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 08:58:59 PM »
What is this amount?

=======================
The ideal income tax rate seems to start with 0% up to the poverty rate of perhaps $12K for a family of four, then 10-35% from there, in a progressive increase depending on total income.

Everyone, including the very poor, pay around 6.75% to Social Security, with an equal amount paid by the employer. It's not an income tax, but it is a tax.

Nearly ALL of Juniorbush's tax cut went to people with incomes over $150K per year.
Special rates of a piddly 15% were paid on the income of hedge fund managers.

If you want to know the exact rates, go to irs.gov. It;s hardly a secret.






Take a guess at how much SS I pay. Well I am self-employed. Have you ever been self-employed? Try is sometime, you might drop socialism like a bad habit.

Kramer

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 09:01:28 PM »
Until Obama is in the White House and has exact figures on the real debt caused by the Iraq war (much of it is classified or hidden) he will not be able to determine the best course to follow.

I don't think McCain can make a decent evaluation of the situation, either, and for the same reason.


I get it -- car salesman says buy my car it does this and does that. I say how much. He says trust me and after you sign the deal I'll tell you. I would be naive to take that deal.

Plane

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2008, 09:37:41 PM »
Until Obama is in the White House and has exact figures on the real debt caused by the Iraq war (much of it is classified or hidden) he will not be able to determine the best course to follow.

I don't think McCain can make a decent evaluation of the situation, either, and for the same reason.


I get it -- car salesman says buy my car it does this and does that. I say how much. He says trust me and after you sign the deal I'll tell you. I would be naive to take that deal.

I think Nixon had a secret plan to end the war.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 09:40:18 PM »
I think Nixon had a secret plan to end the war.
===========================================
I am betting that you believed him and voted for him, too.
Him or George Corley Wallace.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 09:40:40 PM »
What is this amount?

=======================
The ideal income tax rate seems to start with 0% up to the poverty rate of perhaps $12K for a family of four, then 10-35% from there, in a progressive increase depending on total income.

Everyone, including the very poor, pay around 6.75% to Social Security, with an equal amount paid by the employer. It's not an income tax, but it is a tax.

Nearly ALL of Juniorbush's tax cut went to people with incomes over $150K per year.
Special rates of a piddly 15% were paid on the income of hedge fund managers.

If you want to know the exact rates, go to irs.gov. It;s hardly a secret.





That doesn't sound so bad , but there is a devil in the details and tax law is enourmous on details.

Right now the top five percent of earners pays (roughly) 80% of the taxes paid and the lowest fourty percent pay practicly nothing other than SS.  How much more progressive does this need to be?

Plane

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Re: Obama Flip-Flops on Tax Cuts
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 09:42:38 PM »
I think Nixon had a secret plan to end the war.
===========================================
I am betting that you believed him and voted for him, too.
Him or George Corley Wallace.


Alas ,I was too young .

I did weep at his resignation , I was very disapointed , especially because I didn't at the time know how many of the accusations against him would turn out to be true.