Questions brought to mind by recent comments

[Universe Prince]

In a thread called "A Word on Guisling [sic] Traitor Losers from My Buddy Steve Gilliard", JS said this:

I've seen arguments in here (well, in the old fora) that implied that the majority of the African-American voters who vote for Democrats were voting against their best interests. The argument implied that the Democrats trick and decieve the African-Americans into voting for them which implies that African American voters are somehow not intelligent enough to see this alleged deception for themselves, yet a group of white right wing individuals can clearly see it for them.

In the interest of disclosure concerning my attitude on the matter, I replied to the above quote by saying:

I've seen arguments in 3DHS that anyone middle class voting Republican is voting against his best interests. The argument implies that Republicans deceive all manner of folks into voting for them which implies that Republican voters are some how not intelligent enough to see this deception or to think for themselves, and that Democrats were somehow smarter and better. I'm not saying this justifies the comments you're talking about, because it certainly does not. But sometimes it is hard to be motivated to condemn someone for doing something that someone else is doing to you.

And I'll say that sort of "voting against their best interests" reasoning is wrong all around. And you're right that it is subtly racist to use it about African-Americans in particular.

Move on over to a thread called "More Truth for The Fooled to Call Racist Because it Concerns Race" and you can find this from Yellow Crane:

I would say that giving Black preachers heavy cash to incinerate their congregations to vote against their own best interests begs your question, amended:  'is voting republican better for blacks, or just Republican-purchased black preachers?'

What does it say about Black preachers to speak of them being bought by Republicans? Yes, I know Crane didn't mean all Black preachers. I am left to wonder if he meant all Black preachers who don't agree with the Democratic Party and/or liberal political positions, or if he just meant some Black preachers who disagree with Democratic Party and/or liberal political positions. It looks to me like he meant all, but I could be wrong. But really, I should set that aside. Because, imo, the more important question here is, what does he mean when he speaks of Black preachers' congregations being incited (I'm fairly positive he meant 'incite' rather than 'incinerate') to vote against their best interests? Who is wise enough to decide for all members of Black preachers' congregations what they should hold to be in their best interests? I'm not. And are we to assume that the members of said congregations are some sort of mob who need to be incited as to what they should think? Are they not capable of deciding for themselves what to think, what is in their best interests and what political philosophy they prefer?

These are surface questions, of course. If I were to go just a bit deeper, I would have to ask, why is it against the interests of the members of Black preachers' congregations to vote Republican? I know the knee-jerk response to that question: the Republican Party is the party of racism. It has its share of racists, no doubt. But what sort of political philosophy is it that says all people of a particular group are supposed to think only one way? That seems to me to be rather arrogantly authoritarian. It seems, to me, not far from saying that if they knew what was good for them, they would all think only what the Democrats want them to think. Not as a direct threat, mind you, more like a fundamentalist Christian warning his children against the dangers of alcohol and dancing. You know how it goes. Drinking and dancing is sin, turning one's back on the true faith, rebellion against God, and bad things will happen as a result. Voting Republican, advocating anything that might be on the Republican Party political platform is betrayal, turning one's back on the true political ideology, rebellion against one's group, race, whatever, and only bad things will happen as a result. In other words, it's evil to act outside the dogma decided for one by others. This is, of course, a control mechanism, an attempt to control other people's behavior by making them fear doing what someone else has decided they are not supposed to do, and by making it okay to look down on those who do those things. The intention is to protect people from evil. But the practice is to treat those other people as if they were all children not to be trusted to decide for themselves.

So is it racist to say African-Americans voting Democratic vote against their best interests? I think so. So what then is it to say speak of Black preachers being bought by Republicans to entice the congregations of these Black preachers to vote against their best interests, i.e. to vote Republican?

[Plane]

Can't argue with that.


Wish I could , but you covered all the bases .

[Xavier_Onassis]

I see no evidence of any bases, or bases being covered here.

The Republicans favor entrepreneurs, people who run their own businesses. The percentage of Blacks who fit this description is much smaller than it is among White people.

The Republicans are more often against funding public education at the college level than Democrats. Black people attend public colleges at a much higher rate than White people.

Republicans favor the suburbs over the inner cities. Black people are more often urban or rural dwellers, and tend to npot be suburbanites.

Republicans are against Equal Opportunity provisions and 'quotas'. Most Blacks favor these.

Blacks benefit more from public assistance programs than Whites. Republicans oppose public assistance programs.

Pretty much all the rabid racists left in the US favor Republicans. There was a reason why Reagan went to Phildelphia, MS to start his campaign. Nothing ever happened there except the famous multiracial lynching, and he didn't go there to denounce that.

There are plenty of reasons for a Black American to vote against some Democrats, but a whole lot more for him to vote against a Republican.

Ward Conally is famous for the same reasons that a talking dog is famous: for the fact that he is an oddity, not for the wisdom of his words.

[Plane]

"The Republicans favor entrepreneurs, people who run their own businesses. The percentage of Blacks who fit this description is much smaller than it is among White people."



Can't this change?


Can't all of the points you brought up be changed?


It may be the Republicans who make it easyer for Entrepreneurs to get started that are better for even Black people who want change to occur.

It may be Republicans who want a voucher system to open the doors to private education to more people includeing Black ones that will be better for Black people who are not happy with Status Quo.


I dispute that Racists are flocking to the Republican party , why should they ? Nobody in either party is eager to wear the mantle of White Supremecy anymore , if racists are voteing for a Nixon , Reagan , Bush or Bush or any lessor model of these , they are just reaping disapointments.