DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: sirs on December 17, 2012, 02:48:54 PM
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How ironic...there are are dumb statements, and then there are stupid statements, and Bloomberg managed to include both phrases in 1 sentence. Stunning
Bloomberg was asked by a reporter to respond to Rep. Louie Gohmert's comments over the weekend that he wished the principal of the school, who died trying to take down shooter Adam Lanza, had a gun. Bloomberg responded by saying, "There are dumb statements and then there are stupid statements.....I don't know what the gun would have done."
How about that a gun could have STOPPED every adult and child murdered last week in Conn. The staggering level of ignorance regarding guns, that comes from the left, any time one of these tragedies occurs, is truely mindboggling
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Get serious!
The principal did not know that this guy was walking into the school with an assault rifle. She would have been aware of this only when she heard the first shots.
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A) no when said she did know
B) it was NOT an assault rifle
C) An armed security guard was far more likely to have seen him, dressed as he was, and prevented even the 1st shot. THAT's what a gun could have done
By the way, who was the 1st person(s) shot? You're positive it wasn't the principal?
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If it wasn't an assault rifle, what the Hell was it?
Of course the principal did not fire the first shot. That is bull-goose looney.
Should you go for a stroll with Mayor Bloomberg, notice that he is the one who gets to wear the "I'm with Stupid" t-shirt.
There in NO WAY they are going to put an armed security guard in every public school in this country.
The problem is guns. Crazy people with guns,and so many guns that every crazy person can get one.
I am for adding a tax on ammo. Say a $10 per bullet tax, and a $1000 tax on those huge clips for ammo.
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If it wasn't an assault rifle, what the Hell was it?
define assault rifle, that is really kinda tough
Of course the principal did not fire the first shot. That is bull-goose looney.
Should you go for a stroll with Mayor Bloomberg, notice that he is the one who gets to wear the "I'm with Stupid" t-shirt.
There in NO WAY they are going to put an armed security guard in every public school in this country.
The problem is guns. Crazy people with guns,and so many guns that every crazy person can get one.
I am for adding a tax on ammo. Say a $10 per bullet tax, and a $1000 tax on those huge clips for ammo.
The first shots were apparently into the glass of the door to gain access by breaking in, a tougher door might have helped .
If there were a firearm of any sort at all available to the staff there would have been some chance of fighting successfully other than zero.
The principal was valiant and attempted to tackle the guy , I would have liked it fine if she had succeeded , even if this had ment that she was armed and shot at him instead of jumping at him barehanded.
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If it wasn't an assault rifle, what the Hell was it?
I'd sure like to see, but it sure as hell wasn't an assault rifle, unless the mom had some arrangement with the Government for being licsened to have one. Assault rifles are already largely illegal
Of course the principal did not fire the first shot. That is bull-goose looney.
Who said she did?? :o I asked if she was shot 1st.
There in NO WAY they are going to put an armed security guard in every public school in this country.
Why not. Are the children & their safety not that important??
The problem is guns.
The problem is the people who use guns to hurt/kill, NOT the guns themselves, not to mention those who are ignorant of how guns are used
I am for adding a tax on ammo. Say a $10 per bullet tax, and a $1000 tax on those huge clips for ammo.
Which again hits the law abiding FAR more seriously than any criminal who can just steal what he wants.
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I have noted that the ammo is under lock and key in every store where I have seen it, just like the prescription drugs, the expensive jewelry and the cigarettes. It would be hard to steal as it is now, and far harder if it cost $10 for one bullet.
I think I would make blanks exempt. My neighbor likes to use his pistol as a noisemaker, and blanks are a lot safer. When one is outside of a sixpack, one might shoot exactly straight up, and a bullet might then come straight down.
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I have noted that the ammo is under lock and key in every store where I have seen it, just like the prescription drugs, the expensive jewelry and the cigarettes. It would be hard to steal as it is now, and far harder if it cost $10 for one bullet.
I have found many a shop, where they are not. But that's beside the point...that's why bad guys are bad. They're not going to worry so much about some increased tax, if they're stealing it, nor is it going to stop them from even purchasing what they need to perform their 1time suicide run. Your tax hurts the law abiding far more, since they're the ones that generally abide by the law, and if they're responsible gun owners, they're also practicing in the local shooting range, or the woods, requiring the need to buy more ammo. You're just trying to create an atmosphere of increasing difficulty for the law abiding
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That is a starter. These people are insane, anyway.
If you make it very expensive and hard for everyone, you make it harder for the guilty as well.
There is no way that they are going to put an armed guard in every school.
That would cost too much and would be minimally effective.
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Yeah, lets have armed security guards at every elementary school. Maybe they can hand out survivalist paraphernalia while they're at it. Or, gee, maybe we can stop feeding the gun-nut mentality, and act more responsibly where it comes to firearms. I know that's a novel idea.
BSB
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It's maybe on the armed guard. Depending on the shooter it's likely the guard would be shot first.
Pretty much for me all armed guard scenerio would be to shoot anybody i know is armed. Remember it takes massive amount of practice time get most armed people to respnd properly to a threat. It very likely a elementary school guard will have a slow enough reaction to get killed. Just saying make sure the guard is better trained has very little meaning since such training would likely mean he should work elsewhere.
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"Remember it takes massive amount of practice time get most armed people to respnd properly to a threat. ..........................................................Just saying make sure the guard is better trained has very little meaning since such training would likely mean he should work elsewhere. "
Ah huh, like with the Secret Service or Delta.
BSB
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It's maybe on the armed guard. Depending on the shooter it's likely the guard would be shot first.
Kimba....I think it will happen...we have armed guards in banks. (many times off-duty cops)
why not schools?....I betcha it happens.
San Antonio Security Guard Shoots
Would-Be Massacre Suspect Four Times
17 Dec 2012
A would-be shooter in San Antonio, Texas, was stopped yesterday by an off-duty police officer working as a security guard at a movie theater. The off-duty police officer shot the suspect.
The shooting suspect, Jesus Manuel Garcia, 19, opened fire at a restaurant in a mall in San Antonio. His former girlfriend worked at the restaurant, and he had worked there as well. Garcia apparently chased employees out of the restaurant, then began shooting at a police car outside. When he ran to the Santikos Mayan Palace Movie Theater, he was quickly shot four times by a security officer. According to Louis Antu of the Bexar County Sheriff's Office, the deputy saved "a lot of lives."
This is the third shooting attempt in a populated area in a week stopped by another gun-owner or security guard. In an Oregon last week, Jacob Tyler Roberts opened fire at a mall, killing two people and wounding another, before a conceal and carry permit holder pulled a gun. Roberts then killed himself. A shooting attempt at Fashion Island in Southern California was foiled when bicycle officers on scene stopped the suspect and arrested him.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/17/Security-guard-stops-theater-shooting (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/17/Security-guard-stops-theater-shooting)
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Note "off-duty officers"
bank guards can alo be college kids just making tuition. Also i know of several banks with armed guards that often get robbed anyway.
The sheer volume of schools which most truely don't need is huge and will be hardpressed to get experinced guards away from banks or armoured truck, factory complex,concierge security.
As a school i hope they do a thorough background check on security guard and not just use recemondations. You"ll be surprise how many should not be around children
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Boy, CU, you're really into the dooms day stuff. Armed security guards at elementary schools, survivalist gear and food, Iran is going to attack Israel, etc., etc. Chill out dude.
BSB
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Doesn't take long for the hyper left to go uber irrational following a simple logical idea, like a few armed guards at a school. Naaa, we have to make the idea into some militia mounted survivalist act. Skip the rational and go right into the ludicrous....sop
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It might be difficult to have a high standard and many thousands of armed guards also.
The best of the best will always be scarce , so having even one Delta force comando embeded at every school is unlikely.
At what standard might the idea start to work?
Sending some of the school administrators to train in the proper use of wepons might be possible for a lot of schools, accepting well screened volenteers might work for some.
I think probly the deepest pool of talent that could be tapped is retired soldiers .
This would include every kind of person , so screening would be a good idea.
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The quickest way to make the schools safer is to not advertise that they are gun free zones.
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bank guards can alo be college kids just making tuition. .
Also i know of several banks with armed guards that often get robbed anyway.
Kimba....nothing in life is 100%.
They can break in Fort Knox if they want in bad enough.
Security is almost always a numbers game and a shell game.
If we can send billions to Islamist in Egypt,
we can certainly hire off duty officers at our schools.
I see off-duty cops working all around my area, traffic directors at private buildings
security at private buildings, security at banks, ect....
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They can break in Fort Knox if they want in bad enough.
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So your opinion is that no one has broken into Fort Know because they just lacked ambition?
That is just stupid.
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Boy, CU, you're really into the dooms day stuff. Armed security guards at elementary schools, survivalist gear and food, Iran is going to attack Israel, etc., etc. Chill out dude. BSB
BSB I was a Boy Scout and our motto was "Be Prepared".
I think the world is spinning out of control.
Just read the newspaper....
Something has to give....I don't trust our politicians.
Most high schools have an off duty officer, why not all schools?
The American People would be more than willing to pay for it,
instead of most of the non-sense gvt does...this is a real function.
My running water was out for 18 hours recently.
It was an eye-opener.
I see spending $100 on Life Straws as an incredibly good investment.
To be able to drink almost any water if there were a major problem for $100?
It's a no brainer to me.....but if it's not to you....ok...thats great too.
2EachHisOwn.
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So your opinion is that no one has broken into Fort Know because they just lacked ambition?
That is just stupid.
No what is really stupid is your literalism.
You always miss the point, stuck on some unimportant detail.
The point is almost anywhere can be broken into if someone wants to bad enough.
The most secure banks have been robbed....the most secure locks have been picked.
Homes with cameras, security systems, guard dogs have been robbed.
Presidents surrounded by arm guards with machine guns have been shot.
People die wearing seat belts....
The point being that preventative measures are still worth taking even-though
they are not fool proof.
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The quickest way to make the schools safer is to not advertise that they are gun free zones.
EXCELLENT suggestion. Kinda like the house with no dog, but the sign says "beware of dog", or "this place equipped with surveillance". Even if you didn't have armed guards, at least don't advertise that you don't. Great suggestion, Bt
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Cu
I'm saying thier are not enough of these trained folks and as a guard myself i don't see that many around me. Despite my job is with the city which require higher than average security background. In fact I'm probly exactly the kind of guard for those school. It's extremely dificult finding people fill my position. Lots of willing people but very few qualify and the ones that get in by referal don't last the year. Just yesterday the museum informed us that policy changes are going to be made about armed incidents.
P.s. i don't recall school ever saying they are gun free?
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Cu...I'm saying thier are not enough of these trained folks and as a guard myself i
don't see that many around me.
Ok...but we can get it done....
what....do we say "well hell nobody is trained lets just throw in the towel"
if we landed on the moon, we can get off-duty police officers in our schools.
Plus we have very high unemployement. We have lots of military retirements.
If there are not enough off-duty officers....we can start training people as well
as use the retired military and other options like professional guards like yourself.
If you're gonna do anything...there are always problems to overcome.
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No what is really stupid is your literalism.
You always miss the point, stuck on some unimportant detail.
The point is almost anywhere can be broken into if someone wants to bad enough.
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But your point is clearly untrue.
No one has broken into Ft.Knox, and it is not because of a lack of desire.
If you do not wish to be accused of saying stupid thjngs, stop saying stupid things.
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The point being that preventative measures are still worth taking even-though
they are not fool proof.
Of course they are. I agree with this.
That is why we need to BAN semiautomatic rifles, like the one that was used to kill all those children.
That is why we need a national database of dangerous loonies, so fewer of them will be able to arm themselves.
Even if this guy swiped his mother's gun, that is not the usual case.
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But your point is clearly untrue
Wrong again.....it is in fact quite clear that my statement is not untrue.
You on the other hand implying it is humanly impossible to break into Fort Knox
because it has not yet happened is what is untrue.
No one has broken into Ft.Knox,
No one had flew airplanes into the World Trade Center either.
Under your logic, you would have said it was impossible or not for lack of desire
When it clearly was possible, just had not been done.
If you do not wish to be accused of saying stupid thjngs, stop saying stupid things.
Being accused of saying something stupid by the ultimate stupid is not really high on my importance level.
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d'oh ;)
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d'oh ;)
arguing over not-important to the point details is his obvious way to deflect away from
the primary point and his way to attack those who he hates....he is a hateful old rascal Sirs!
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That's a pretty fair summation
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Kimba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsdzBC23GobBqNYqXty64CovrfamgO1Mcg4II56C8IcqtIu7MY)
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I`ve never seen that
on guns , I`m point out my museum can`t get these guys and we offer training.I`m not saying give up but point out the difficulty and possibly alternatives. what solutions I got no idea but that doesn`t mean armed guards is the only answer or if it`s an answer at all. I did point out the guard may possibly offer little protection.
I do have a question . what caused this? meaning maybe we should address the cause and study it to minimize future incident by being able to identifying it. maybe saying he`s nuts may not be enough anymore.
quite guy keeps to himself- it`ll be scarey if that was said in the news
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I do have a question . what caused this? meaning maybe we should address the cause and study it to minimize future incident by being able to identifying it. maybe saying he`s nuts may not be enough anymore.
well Kimba one area might be drugs all these half-wits are taking!
funny.....kids seemed to get along pretty well until they started loading them up with drugs!
http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school (http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school)
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I do have a question . what caused this?
maybe this Kimba:
America's problem is not guns.
Mass shootings were never commonplace years ago like they are today.
Our children are products of Lazy and Absent parenting and that is the problem.
1. Parents need to be actively involved in their childrens' lives
2. Parents should not use XBOX 360 or PS3 as Babysitters
3. Actively Regulate what your kids watch on TV
4. Lessons in humility, compassion, love, and loss.
5. Don't blame TV, Video Games, Magazines, etc. for how your child has turned out. That is your fault for allowing them to intake that information. YOU ARE THE PARENT!!!!
6. If you are a gun owner, 1 simple step, LOCK THEM UP AND LOCK THE KEYS UP!!
7. MOST IMPORTANT, DO NOT PACIFY your child. If they loose, let them feel loss, don't give them anything they want, make them earn it. If they cry, kick, scream, stomp......don't give it to them. Stand your ground and your child will turn out to be a better person for it.
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I truely like these answers.
please everyone , don`t care how crazy the answer I what feedback
the ones that came actually solve other problems so no answer is bad
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I do have a question . what caused this?
maybe this Kimba:
America's problem is not guns.
Mass shootings were never commonplace years ago like they are today.
Our children are products of Lazy and Absent parenting and that is the problem.
1. Parents need to be actively involved in their childrens' lives
2. Parents should not use XBOX 360 or PS3 as Babysitters
3. Actively Regulate what your kids watch on TV
4. Lessons in humility, compassion, love, and loss.
5. Don't blame TV, Video Games, Magazines, etc. for how your child has turned out. That is your fault for allowing them to intake that information. YOU ARE THE PARENT!!!!
6. If you are a gun owner, 1 simple step, LOCK THEM UP AND LOCK THE KEYS UP!!
7. MOST IMPORTANT, DO NOT PACIFY your child. If they loose, let them feel loss, don't give them anything they want, make them earn it. If they cry, kick, scream, stomp......don't give it to them. Stand your ground and your child will turn out to be a better person for it.
While I agree with everything you've said C, there are some cases, due to some tweaked wiring in the child's brain, that causes them simply to act out in hostile, if not violent ways. Some of them can be given definative diagnoses, and hopefully treated with medications, and alot of TLC, though my point is, those are the rare cases that we can't put this on the parent
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Good lord, CU, the world isn't on the edge, no one is stalking your rights. Just take it easy and use the brain for it was meant for, taking in what is really there, not what you think is there. Relax.
BSB
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Actually, they (the anti-2nd amendment folk) are precisely stalking our rights. It's just sad to see how they're not man enough to just come out and admit it, instead of hiding behind tragedies like Conn.
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as somebody who has friends that takes those meds "it does work" but I know kids who take them and the parents lets them drink coffee. meaning thier are factors for kids still having problems under it.
no.7 is funny to me
here in san fran a supervisor blames fast food for hooking kids on burgers ,said the parents can`t say no to the kids for wanting a kids meal for the prize. so banning prizes is the law. ironicly the fastfood places are smarter than local politician and simply allocate all kids prizes money to charity to bypass the law.
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There are no anti-2nd amendment rights people. There are just people who want us to live in a less gun violent society. How to do that is the debate. You're just fucked up Sirs, that's all.
BSB
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minimize future incident
Why Israel doesn't have school massacres by Israeli Citizens
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/563859_446201362093970_1439655039_n.jpg)
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There are no anti-2nd amendment rights people.
There are a whole bunch of them, frequently argueing that its about some specific militia, that it's outdated, that its about hunting, or rationalize that....
"There are just people who want us to live in a less gun violent society."
How to do that is the debate. You're just fucked up Sirs, that's all.
No, the debate is to deal with the actual problems that lead to the violent acts, not the tools that they use. That's the home of the ignorant
But, if its not about anti-2nd amendment stalkers, how do you keep the insane from accessing firearms while leaving the sane and their firearms alone?
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/authorities-crack-down-copycat-threats-newtown-210709195.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/authorities-crack-down-copycat-threats-newtown-210709195.html)
But criminology expert Ray Surette cautioned in his own study on copycat crime that "too few copycat criminals have been identified to allow for scientifically adequate research."
Surette's study of juvenile offenders in Florida, published in Crime & Delinquency in 2002, found that about a third of young prisoners had considered committing a crime that they had seen in the media—defined as TV, movies, news and music—and that a quarter of them had actually attempted to commit such a crime. But Surette had no way of knowing whether removing the media would have prevented those prisoners from committing their crimes in the first place.
In a 1984 study of prisoners in Butner, N.C., the researchers Susan Pease and Craig Love found that about 20 percent of prisoners said they had been influenced by either newspaper reports, TV news, TV shows or movies before committing a crime. TV news and newspaper reports ranked far lower than programs and movies as influencers, and almost all of the self-identified "copycat criminals" said they had the intent to commit a crime before they were influenced by media. (Some prisoners said they would watch TV crime programs and literally take notes in order to pick up on new techniques.) The lone exception was mentally ill patients, however, who did not necessarily have criminal intent before they said they were influenced by media before committing a crime.