Glenn Greenwald in Salon

[BT]

Rumsfeld was Navy, then later Naval Reserve.

National Guard units have served in theaters of war since the founding of this nation.

Two of the three men you listed as having avoided military service, in fact, did not.

[Michael Tee]

<<Rumsfeld was Navy, then later Naval Reserve.>>

from Wikipedia:  "He was an aviator in the United States Navy between 1954 and 1957 before transferring to the Naval Reserve."
In other words, he got into naval aviation after the Korean War was safely over, while the U.S. was at peace, and got out about three years later while the country was still at peace.

<<National Guard units have served in theaters of war since the founding of this nation.>>

"The Air National Guard was known to be a safe haven from combat for rich white boys."  Colin Powell said that.  But maybe the poor guy was just ignorant of the fact that National Guard "units" had served in theaters of war since the founding of the nation.  Maybe the rich white guys seeking shelter from combat just didn't have access to good historians.

<<Two of the three men you listed as having avoided military service, in fact, did not. >>

I did not list anyone as having avoided military service.  Clearly both Bush and Rumsfeld served.  I listed them as avoiding combat.  All three of them avoided combat.  I listed more than three men, too.  I listed Perle, Wolfowicz and Feith in addition to the first three.  All six of them were successful in avoiding combat. 

[BT]

Don't know why Powell would say that. As Joint Chief of Staff during the First Gulf War he deployed 43,000 National Guard troops to the theater.

And In case you didn't know, the military sends you where they need you, if you are wearing a uniform you could be sent into combat.

I could have as easily ended up on a swift boat as i did in Iceland. I even asked for duty in the Pacific.

The powers that be had other plans for me.

[BT]

He attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC partial scholarships (A.B., 1954)

And then he went on active duty in the Navy. I don't see where Korea played into this progression.

[Michael Tee]

<<Don't know why Powell would say that. >>

Don't be so modest.  Sure ya do.

<<As Joint Chief of Staff during the First Gulf War he deployed 43,000 National Guard troops to the theater.>>

Uh, he was speaking of events decades previous to that.  He knew whereof he spoke.

<<And In case you didn't know, the military sends you where they need you, if you are wearing a uniform you could be sent into combat.>>

I guess that just slipped Powell's mind when he was writing his memoirs, eh?  Or maybe he never realized  that.  Maybe he thought that the military had to ask a soldier's permission before sending him anywhere.

<<I could have as easily ended up on a swift boat as i did in Iceland. I even asked for duty in the Pacific.>>

From what I'm told by folks who were there,  you can be sent from the rear echelon to the front line merely because you have pissed off someone higher up in the chain of command, or you can be kept Stateside in spite of repeated requests for transfer to a combat zone merely because your commander in the States thinks you are a pretty smart guy and wants you on his team on not somebody else's team.  The Army hath its reasons, all of which Powell must have known when he wrote that, at the time of the Viet Nam War, the Air National Guard was a refuge for rich white guys anxious to avoid combat.

Stop spinning, BT.  At the end of the day, Powell wrote what he wrote, and he knew what he was talking about, too.  All the spin in the world ain't gonna change that.

<<The powers that be had other plans for me. >>

Well, they must have been benign, because you're still with us.

[Amianthus]

Uh, he was speaking of events decades previous to that.  He knew whereof he spoke.

National Guard, Air National Guard, and other reserve units all had deployments to Viet Nam during the war years. Not sure if every state had contributed, but they WERE deployed there.

[BSB]

Soldiers aren't sent from the rear to the front unless they have the right MOS. No one wants a shitbird in their infantry unit if he doesn't know which end of his M16 to point at the enemy.

As for the National Guard and all that stuff: Some went, most did not. Most, and I repeat, most, not all, who went into those units were trying to avoid Vietnam.   


 

[Xavier_Onassis]

Infinite were the ways, but at the end of the day, not one of them had risked a hair on his head.
============================
Well, there ARE training and war game accidents. It is safe to say that none of them risked harm from an enemy.

One is at a greater risk going up in a trainer than in a commercial airliner, I am sure.

[Michael Tee]

<<National Guard, Air National Guard, and other reserve units all had deployments to Viet Nam during the war years. Not sure if every state had contributed, but they WERE deployed there.>>

Nothing's a sure thing.  You can seek refuge from a flood on the roof of a house and then the house gets washed away.  Whether the refuge worked for all who bought into it or not, the fact is that it was seen by Colin Powell and many others as a refuge for rich white boys seeking to avoid combat and in the case of G.W. Bush and tens of thousands of others, it fit the bill.

<<Soldiers aren't sent from the rear to the front unless they have the right MOS. No one wants a shitbird in their infantry unit if he doesn't know which end of his M16 to point at the enemy.>>

I am good friends with an AWOL U.S. corporal who was in precisely that position.  He unknowingly pissed off a senior officer(the guy was wearing civvies at the time and was otherwise unknown to my friend) and late that same Friday afternoon, when it was too late for him to call around and find someone to countermand or otherwise nullify the order, an order came in for him to embark on 48 hrs. notice for Viet Nam, with all the necessary specifics included.  My friend immediately packed his bags, drove straight to Detroit and over the border to Windsor.  The guard at the gate of his camp knew where he was going and wished him luck.  He got refugee status here and lived happily ever after as a Canadian.  Maybe he wasn't going straight to the front line, but there was no reason not to think so.  He was just as good a soldier as anyone else, and none of it is exactly rocket science.  He sure as hell wouldn't have pointed the wrong end of the rifle at anyone.

During the war, my dad's cousin was an RCAF corporal in charge of a gun crew on a small island off the coast of Newfoundland.  A 2nd Lt. dropped in on the island and told our cousin to arrest one of the crew for drunkenness.  The order was absurd, our cousin refused to follow it and the officer threatened him with court-martial.  The base commander dropped in on the island later to hear our cousin's version of the dispute.  Almost immediately afterward, the Lt. was on his way to France.  

The easiest way to deal with a fuck-up, or even with somebody who is just making unnecessary waves, is to transfer him out to somewhere else.  Obviously, the Lt. wasn't necessarily going to the front, but his life expectancy sure wasn't increased when he got  transferred from Newfoundland to France.

[Plane]

I am good friends with an AWOL U.S. corporal who ..............

Avoided combat, but you like him anyway?

[Michael Tee]

<<Avoided combat, but you like him anyway?>>

That would depend on the combat he avoided.  The real heroes of the Viet Nam War are the guys who wouldn't go.

[sirs]

And which combat/wars were Bush & Rumsfeld supposedly avoiding again?

[Kramer]

Soldiers aren't sent from the rear to the front unless they have the right MOS. No one wants a shitbird in their infantry unit if he doesn't know which end of his M16 to point at the enemy.

As for the National Guard and all that stuff: Some went, most did not. Most, and I repeat, most, not all, who went into those units were trying to avoid Vietnam.   


 

at least they came home whole

[sirs]

<<Avoided combat, but you like him anyway?>>

That would depend on the combat he avoided.  The real heroes of the Viet Nam War are the guys who wouldn't go.

And which combat/wars were Bush & Rumsfeld supposedly avoiding again?

.....timer......


Your silence speaks volumes.  My thanks

[BT]

Soldiers aren't sent from the rear to the front unless they have the right MOS. No one wants a shitbird in their infantry unit if he doesn't know which end of his M16 to point at the enemy.

As for the National Guard and all that stuff: Some went, most did not. Most, and I repeat, most, not all, who went into those units were trying to avoid Vietnam.   


 

at least they came home whole

cut the crap kramer