DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on July 25, 2014, 07:07:44 PM
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Pretty well, depending on who you ask.
Up to 90% effective, Reagan is vindicated against the Luddites who ridiculed his missle defense ideas.
But wait one.
Hamas is firing a lot of missiles that are not only cheap , they were given free by Iran.
These are simple missiles , the easy test for Iron Dome doesn't prove much.
Iran has faster moving missiles, and Israel should hold enough Iron Dome in reserve to respond against the bigger faster missiles.
The worst vulnerability of Iron Dome is that it is a bigger drain on the purse than the ballistic missiles it stops are.
How long does it take to restock?
Does Iran know how long it takes to restock?
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the easy test for Iron Dome doesn't prove much.
This does!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PUusycx3Xc
http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/24/israeli-tanks-block-missiles-with-mini-iron-dome-system-video/
http://madworldnews.com/windbreaker-israeli-defense-system-hamas-calling-ceasefire/
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I didn't know about that one, very interesting.
I am not worried that the Israelis will have any thing less then the best .
What I worried about is that the weapons being thrown at them are pretty cheap, the supply is large.
It ought to be a secret exactly how many such systems are available and how many reloads there are.
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What I worried about is that the weapons being thrown at them are pretty cheap, the supply is large.
They are not that cheap..... Iran is spending huge bucks in Syria, Iraq, with Hamas. and other places
Iran's economy really, really sucks....so it's a good thing to see Iran being drained of money.
Plus even if they are cheap weapons, the answer is severe punishment.
Zero rockets into Israel is the only thing that should be tolerated.
Any rocket attack should be severely punished
where the cost to the rocket sender is totally unacceptable.
I see Obama and Kerry now rushing in to save Hamas.
Kerry wants that ceasefire before Israel takes next step to crush Hamas and destroy more tunnels.
Obama and Kerry got to protect the terrorist Hamas. ::)
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http://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=37&ARTICLE_ID=50930
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Alas.....Hamas' "Human Dome" is working pretty good as well :'(
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(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10358932_730411893672914_6541228800384539481_o.jpg)
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it`s called priorities.
remember in Afghanistan they rather destroy the largest standing buddha statue and ask people to just give them stuff then offer the sell the statue intact for things they need. no conflict of thought there. sadly such thinking is not rare
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Yes , it is priorities .
It is also irrationality.
I wonder how many tunnels worth of building materials it would take for the authorities in charge of Gaza to construct a desalination plant
All of the tap water in Gaza is from pipes that originate at Israeli sources.
If Israel were to step one more step in the direction of General Sherman they would turn those valves closed and demand that every barrel of water be paid for with unfired missiles.
I can't see that Hamas has ever done much to make the people of Gaza less dependent.
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I`ve learned along time ago logic and rational thought is just things that not everybody bother with
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Politics/b83d6682-1613-42e0-b880-bb120af3bbae_zps6c9350ee.jpg)
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The typical Israeli line.
Put people in a fetid, walk-in jail for four generations and expect them to build the shining city on the hill.
The Zionists are like a Black Flag commercial: "They deserve to die."
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
What bullshit.
Peddle it elsewhere.
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1 HUGE problem with that theory...Gaza isn't a jail. People can come and go as they please, unlike those in jail. Just can't be bringing in bomb/rocket making material. Now, care to refute the actual points being made vs pretending they don't exist? Has Ireal and many other countries provided Gaza with tons of concrete/structure making materials, for things like Hopsitals & Schools. And has Hamas not been using them instead to build this plethora of illegal entrance tunnels into Israel?? That's not BS...that's current reality
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Gazans cannot enter and leave Gaza. There is only one border crossing for people as all; the others were closed by Israel. Egypt restricts and often simply closes the border at Raffah. Non Gazan reporters are often refused entry.
It is a prison. Rather like Auschwitz, except without the ovens.
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You just debunked yourself....there is a border crossing that they CAN enter/exit. And that Egypt is involved. Not to mention their ports. So no, it's not a prison, in any sense of the word.
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This is a large number of rockets, this is tons of cargo.
How is this getting in there?
If I were a prisoner in a prison I felt was unjust , I might build a boat or even a tunnel to escape.
Gaza fishing boats go out and come back with fish, and Gazan tunnels cost as much as housing upgrades for huge neighborhoods would , but no one is escaping through them.
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I don't think fishermen are allowed to sail beyond a certain point.
I suppose some people do escape, but deem it foolish to make it public.
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If it is possible to smuggle many tones of Cement in, it can't be that much harder to smuggle a few people out.
That there is no place for them to go next is more the problem.
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Cement requires no passport or papers. There are very few totally impenetrable borders anywhere. But that does not mean that Gaza is not a prison.
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Actually it does, since people can still come and go...unlike a prison
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There are many prisons where people come and go, and more than the people in Gaza do.
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Prisons would not be so bad if we were carefull to lock up plenty of decent people.
How many Prisons are built by the inmates ?
When Gaza was released from occupation it was hailed as a great step forward and a preview of the "two state solution".
In hindsight it seems strange that anyone expected it to be an advance at all, it is so obviously a bad situation.
In foresight , is this a true vision of how well a "two state solution" might work?
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I know next to nothing about that world but I never had the impression that those two wanted a solution to co-exist.
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There are many prisons where people come and go, and more than the people in Gaza do.
Visitors and staff, sure. People in Gaza can come and go as well....which agan debunks the ridicuolus claim that Gaza is no different than some prison :o
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I know next to nothing about that world but I never had the impression that those two wanted a solution to co-exist.
There can be no solution between 2 sides, when one of those sides is set on seeing the other side cease to exist. A solution requires that both recognize the other. There will never be peace so long as Israel's right to exist is never established as a foundation to any peace.
Lemme put it another way....if Palestinians were to unilaterally lay down their arms, there'd be peace. If the Israelis were to unilaterally lay down their arms, they'd be slaughtered
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Americans seem prejudiced in favor of peace.
We shouldn't assume that everyone is , there seems be things that some people would rather have than peace.
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There are a considerable number of Zionists that claim that Palestinians do not exist and that they have a right to all of the West Bank.
There are murderous groups on both sides that would want to assassinate any leader that agreed with the other side.
I reiterate: this struggle is as important to me as the struggle over Kashmir. The problem is the US will not treat it as such. Withdraw aid and tax breaks to Israel, just as we do not provide these to anyone in Kashmir. If we did this, we might see a two state solution. If we don't do this, it is almost certain that the current mess will continue, and we will get the bill for it.
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Americans seem prejudiced in favor of peace.
We shouldn't assume that everyone is , there seems be things that some people would rather have than peace.
Exactly, and while there may be some Zionists' that don't believe there should be any Palestinians, that's not a mandate of their Government, nor something they're teaching in their schools
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Many of the Israeli fanatics do not say there should not be any Palestinians, they say there are none.
Jews are experts at public relations, advertising and propaganda.
Arabs, especially clowns like Hamas are absolutely no good at all at convincing anyone other than other Muslims. In the Muslim world, the authenticity of a statement comes from the status of the "expert" that makes it. To most Westerners, Joe Isuzu is more credible than Muhammad himself.
Muslims are illogical like fundie televangelists on steroids.
The fact remains that incarcerating a million and a half people for several lifetimes is a humanitarian outrage.
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Your opinion at how evil and manipulative the Jews are is duly noted. The FACT remains that it's the Palestinians led by Hamas that won't accept a state of Isreal to exist in the region. And will literally launch rockets from densely populated regions of Gaza to specifically get a max amount of their own civilian casualties, in a retaliatory response. Not the other way around
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There are fanatics on both sides, and as always when violence begins, they become the focus of all commentary. Both sides justify killing their opponents. The Zionists are a lot better at this, because they have a larger budget, and kill more of their enemies. But in the long run, none of this accomplishes anything, other than to magnify the hatred between the factions.
It was better and more logical when there was just David and Goliath and some spectators who agreed that they would go along with the outcome.
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The funny thing here is that no one is denying fanatics on any side. The realty is that one side of this issue however has a mandate to see the other side cease to exist. That's not present the other way around
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The Jewish fanatics claim that there is no such thing as a "Palestinian". They call the Israeli Palestinians in the Knesset ,"Israeli Arabs".
Hamas; spokesmen are nut cases. Hyperbole and rhetoric are their favorite things.
Each and every sura of the Koran begins, "In the name of Allah, the great, the compassionate, the merciful". All save th4e "Satanic Verses"
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Whatever Jewish fanatics that there are, DON'T RUN THE GOVERNMENT. Are you not grasping the difference yet??
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They are a part of a coalition in the present government, and as such, they throw wrenches into the machinery each and every time negotiations are proposed, and that is why none have been possible.
That is why Hamas has gained popularity.
I think it is time to give up on sending aid to Israel and anyone else, or at least threaten seriously to do so. Netanyahu will never bring about a 2 state solution, just as Hamas will not, either.
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Popularity among....whom? Whatever "popularity" they have comes with the propaganda that they push, that they're the supposed victims in this debacle. Any popularity with the Palestinians is do largely to the ongoing education of Palestinian children of just how evil Israel is supposed to be. Popularity among any Muslims in general, is along those lines, and fed with the images of Palestinians getting killed. And in all those ignorant positions, there is no Israeli Government action calling upon the eradication of the Palestinian people. So you can opine about "wrenches" all you want, the FACT remains that the only side that is calling for the destruction of anyone is Hamas and the radicals that run their government
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Yeah, whatever.
Who even gives a shit.
All I say is that i am tired of financing this crap. We sent bazillions to Israel. We have no obligation to do this, most Americans are not concerned with Israel or the Palestinians. We send diplomat after diplomat and these jerks refuse to move a finger. Neither side is worth a damn. Israelis can come to the US or Canada and no one will bother them.
God did not award real estate to anyone, and even if he did, then he sent the Romans to throw out the Jews long ago.
Hamas is a bunch of ignorant fanatics, and I have no control over what they tell their children. I don't think that that justifies Israel constantly colonizing the West Bank.
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Yeah, whatever.
Who even gives a shit.
I do...as does every mother who's lost a child in this conflict.
God did not award real estate to anyone, and even if he did, then he sent the Romans to throw out the Jews long ago.
So, trying to justify the actions and rhetoric of Hamas I see. Sad
Hamas is a bunch of ignorant fanatics, and I have no control over what they tell their children. I don't think that that justifies Israel constantly colonizing the West Bank.
They're not, but at least you're recognzing what Hamas is doing and educating the children in. Until Muslims & Palestinians start loving their children more than they hate Israelis, there will never be peace....period
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There is no way that I can return dead children to life or prevent the Israelis from killing more of them. I have written my Senators and Congresswoman, but this is Miami and Israel is never criticized here. So far, the Hamas rockets have not killed any children, or so I have heard.
This could and should have been settled long ago by forcing Israel to agree to terms or lose all US support. Now it has simply gone too far it seems. i support neither side: they are all fanatics.
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There is no way that I can return dead children to life or prevent the Israelis from killing more of them.
EGADS....ENOUGH WITH THE IRRELEVANT DEFLECTIONS. :o This has nothing to do with who has some magical ability to manipuate time. This isn't Dr. Who...this is simply current reality. Yes, it could have been settled long ago. BUT NOT UNTIL ONE SIDE REMOVES FROM ITS MANDATE THE CESSATION OF THE OTHER SIDE. And hint, this doesn't require Israel to do a damn thing.
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Israel has the obligation to bargain in good faith. But every time talks are scheduled, they start adding to their colonies or takeovers and the Plaestinians withdraw. Thois has happened right under your nose dozens of times.
What is this "hint" crap?
Playing some child's game here, sirs?
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Israel has no obligation at this point except defend itself. It has shown plenty of good faith, but unfortunately the side they're "bargaining with" has as part of their bargain the cessation of the state of Israel. There is no "good faith" to bargain with, until that changes
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The negotiations thus far that I was referring to have been between the PLO, which has not denied Israels' right to exist, and Israel. Hamas was elected by the people of Gaza, the PLO by the people of the West Bank
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So far, the Hamas rockets have not killed any children, or so I have heard.
That is a neat trick, how indeed does Hamas avoid this?
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The rockets are extremely inaccurate. I suppose some Hamas types might be happy if they actually hit a child, but I doubt if they all would. The odds are small that they will hit anyone.
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So what purpose do they serve?
I have an idea, but your idea might be different so I will tell you mine second.
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http://qz.com/247273/israeli-kids-are-singing-along-to-a-terror-pop-hit-recorded-by-hamas/
Cute story.
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http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/australian-pm-appalled-at-decapitated-head-photo/article/396102
Not a cute story.
Australia could join an ad hoc coalition to feed refugees .
A lot of the world is unhappy with Isis, Could President Obama do as well as the two presidents Bush at collecting together allies for a real set of allies to rescue the threatened people of Iraq?
I think it possible , we could even invite Russia to come along , they don't love Isis either.