Author Topic: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released  (Read 9610 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2010, 01:27:35 PM »
<<This is in a combat zone, and these are soldiers. If you want them to act to like police officers and wait until they're fired upon, then you should send some Mounties over there. Police are trained to ask questions and wait for provocation, soldiers are trained to react with deadly force when in a combat situation (which means just being in a combat area, NOT waiting until they're fired on).>>

Combat zone, my ass.  It's a combat zone because they call it a combat zone, nobody was firing on them and they knew God-damn well that the citizens were legally permitted to carry AKs for self-defence.  Even calling that urban street scene a combat zone is a stretch.

There was absolutely no evidence in the video that weapons were being loaded into the van.  The van was in plain sight as was the wounded journalist crawling towards it.  Where were the weapons being loaded in?  That was the bullshit those punks radio'd back to base so they could get permission to shoot up the wounded and their would-be rescuer.

It was obvious from the demeanour of those Nazi punks that this was not a combat zone and they were not under fire.  Anyone who's ever watched newsreels of men under fire (and I've watched dozens of them) knows that they are nowhere near as relaxed as those punks were.

Michael Tee

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2010, 01:39:37 PM »
<<6,000,000 Jews were murdered in WWII. SIX MILLION. How can 6,000,000 million people act so passively as to be murdered day after day for years? Cowardice?>>

Now I know you're fucking with me.  You're not that fucking ignorant.

<<If that is in your history it would serve your self esteem to see Nazies everywhere and then PRETEND to fight them like a two bit punk in no threat of real battle. >>

Nice try.  Better than admitting the obvious - - that there's little or no moral distinction between the U.S. military and the Nazis.  Hurts when you're a member or former member of the U.S. military and accustomed to demanding and receiving the unthinking adulation of the ignorant American public.

<<Like on the internet. On the internet you can call anyone a Nazi, then start insulting them, safely hiding behind your anonymity, and PRETENDING you're a lot tougher then your forefathers who were so passive they got lined up by the millions and stuffed into ovens.>>

Right, next time I'll take the easy way out and pretend those sick loser fucks are heroic defenders of universal human values.

<<Are all Jews cowards?  I don't know.>>

LOL.  Glad to see you're keeping an open mind on the subject.

<<Are all American soldiers murdering thugs? Are all Vietnam vets torturers? >>

Put it this way - - some are and the rest of them enable and support the murderers and the torturers.  Maybe five or six percent are OK, but they better hide it or they'll be hounded out of the service.


sirs

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2010, 01:43:50 PM »
<<This is in a combat zone, and these are soldiers. If you want them to act to like police officers and wait until they're fired upon, then you should send some Mounties over there. Police are trained to ask questions and wait for provocation, soldiers are trained to react with deadly force when in a combat situation (which means just being in a combat area, NOT waiting until they're fired on).>>

Combat zone, my ass.  It's a combat zone because they call it a combat zone, nobody was firing on them and they knew God-damn well that the citizens were legally permitted to carry AKs for self-defence. 

Someone want to call Tee on this, to back it up with proof, if its so "obviously" legal?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 04:39:58 PM »
Combat zone, my ass.  

Michael are you denying that this event took place in what was a very hot combat
zone at that time of the Iraq war? Seriously there had been numerous American soldiers killed
and helicopters shot down and fired upon in this same combat zone. If you are trying...
and I am not saying you are....but if you are trying to sell the idea that this was some
docile neighborhood....Michael that is just not true. This was a very dangerous area.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2010, 04:49:22 PM »
Snowblower, WWII is over. The Jews got massacred. They pulled a Palin and quit. We fought against the Germans. They were the Nazies. Go away, asshole. Cry on someone else's shoulder.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 05:00:08 PM by BSB »

BSB

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2010, 04:59:05 PM »
"I have never yet seen a newsreel of men in combat where guys under fire are as happy and jocular...." 

A) I have seen guys joking with each other while being under fire. I've joked with guys while we getting pounded with 120mm rockets.

B) Newsreel? This isn't WWII Snowblower.

Michael Tee

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2010, 06:07:50 PM »
<<Michael are you denying that this event took place in what was a very hot combat
zone at that time of the Iraq war? >>

Come on, CU4, get real.  Was there anything in that video that gave the appearance of a "very hot combat zone?"  Did those guys sound scared or excited to you, like someone was firing or about to fire on them with live ammunition?  Did you hear how casually,  without any hint of urgency in their voices, they radio'd for permission to shoot up the van?  BULLSHIT this was combat.  I know it wasn't and so should you.

The Army sounds like a comedian from an old vaudeville sketch, "Who ya gonna believe, me or your own lyin' eyes?"  It's funny to watch because in real life who is so stupid as to be convinced by some slick-talking con artist that what he saw with his own eyes wasn't what it all too obviously was?  (Usually it's the guy caught by his wife in bed with a bimbo.  "Who ya gonna believe . . . ?)

The army and those Neanderthals in the chopper want you to believe that this was a battle.  They called it combat.  But they held onto that tape buried in the vault and wouldn't show it to anyone.  Reuters was still fighting in the courts for an order to get that tape and their chances didn't look so hot.  If it weren't for some courageous whistle-blowers inside the Army itself, that tape would still be buried in an Army vault.  Is that really how an innocent party behaves?  Bury the evidence at all costs?  Come on, CU4.  If you were on a jury in a murder trial, and you heard that the accused busted his ass to hide a film of the event, that would mean nothing at all to you?  If you suspected your bookkeeper had been embezzling money from you, but he hid the books and fought you in court to keep them hidden from you, WTF would you really think - - that the guy was innocent but had a genuine fear you might misinterpret the books? 

<<Seriously there had been numerous American soldiers killed
and helicopters shot down and fired upon in this same combat zone. >>

When?  Where?  You probably couldn't find a street corner anywhere in Baghdad where some kind of shit hadn't gone down somewhere.  The fact is there were no American soldiers being killed in the streets below at that time, there was no firing from the street, there was no fire coming from the van which was trying to pick up the wounded and there was absolutely zero evidence of insurgents inside the van, which the soldiers saw arrive on the scene. 

<<Michael that is just not true. This was a very dangerous area.>>

Use your head, CU4?  Did it look dangerous to you?  Did you see any evidence of the danger?  Every street corner in fucking Baghdad is probably a "dangerous area" at some point in the 24-hour, 7-day cycle, but was it dangerous to those guys at that time?  Use your head, CU4 - - you heard those guys yourself.  Honest to God - - did they sound scared?  Did they sound like guys were shooting at them?  Did they sound like their lives were in danger?   Where was the urgency in their voices?  Where was the tension?  Haven't you ever seen combat newsreels of guys in a firefight?  I'm not saying nobody jokes at all, but these guys were joking all the time, and I never saw any combat newsreels of anyone that laid back under fire, nor, I bet, did you.

Michael Tee

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2010, 06:13:35 PM »
<<A) I have seen guys joking with each other while being under fire. I've joked with guys while we getting pounded with 120mm rockets.>>

I don't say nobody ever jokes under fire.  I'm saying those guys were more laid back and relaxed than ANY men I've ever seen in real combat newsreels.

<<B) Newsreel? This isn't WWII Snowblower.>>

Newsreels, videotapes, live radio broadcasts from the front; WWII, Korea, Vietnam, even Iraq or Afghanistan - - what's the fucking difference?  I've heard and watched lots of them and I've never seen such a bunch of laid-back, joking, laughing hoodlums as are portrayed in this tape.  There isn't a single shred of evidence that indicates that they were in danger or under fire at the time.  Those guys were NOT in any danger at any time.

sirs

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2010, 06:14:35 PM »
Those guys were NOT in any danger at any time.

Says you
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2010, 06:25:24 PM »
Come on, CU4, get real.  Was there anything in that video that gave the appearance of a "very hot combat zone?"  Did those guys sound scared or excited to you, like someone was firing or about to fire on them with live ammunition?  Did you hear how casually,  without any hint of urgency in their voices, they radio'd for permission to shoot up the van?  BULLSHIT this was combat.  I know it wasn't and so should you.

Again, from the link you provided:

"According to Tom Cohen, CNN, the soldiers of Bravo Company 2-16 Infantry had been under fire all morning from rocket-propelled grenades and small arms on the first day of Operation Ilaaj in Baghdad.  Al Jazeera stated that the Army had received 'reports of small arms fire' but as they were unable to positively identify the gunmen they proceeded to dispatch Apache helicopters to the area.

"The Air Weapons Team (AWT) of two Apache AH-64s (part of the 1st Cavalry Division) had been requested by the Army's 2-16 Infantry Battalion, under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Kauzlarich, before July 12 to support Operation Ilaaj. Tasked to conduct escort, armed reconnaissance patrols, counter-IED and counter-mortar operations, the two helicopters left Camp Taji at 9.24am. They arrived on station in New Baghdad at 9.53am, where, according to the official report, sporadic attacks on coalition forces continued."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2010, 06:26:33 PM »
Yea, obviously "no danger at any time"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BSB

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2010, 06:51:28 PM »
There is something seriously WRONG with some of the people in here.

This nut-job MT thinks that because he has watched a few "newsreels" he has a handle on what does and does not occur in a combat situation.


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Plane

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2010, 07:10:32 PM »
6,000,000 ..............





Woah there!

That ropes in a lot more than MT and seems innapropriate somehow.

Michael Tee

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2010, 07:15:26 PM »
<<"According to Tom Cohen, CNN, the soldiers of Bravo Company 2-16 Infantry had been under fire all morning from rocket-propelled grenades and small arms on the first day of Operation Ilaaj in Baghdad.  >>

NONE of which was going on within sight of the helicopter.  None of which activity was being engaged in by the victims of the American Neanderthals.  None of the victims being in any kind of firing position.  All of them openly walking down a public street in broad daylight within eyesight of hovering US helicopters.  Come on, don't you know bullshit when you see it?  Somewhere in the neighbourhood, Americans might have come under fire.  Tens of thousands of people live in the neighbourhood.  There was no indication at all that this dozen or more people had any part to play in the fighting and the fact that they took no action to seek cover or attack the choppers makes it highly improbable that they had anything to do with it.

<<Al Jazeera stated that the Army had received 'reports of small arms fire' but as they were unable to positively identify the gunmen they proceeded to dispatch Apache helicopters to the area.>>

Translation:  reports of gunfire from unidentified gunmen in an area bring helicopters to the area who shoot up anyone within the area.  Even though there is NO indication that the victims of the shooting were gunmen and in fact with numerous indications to the contrary (the failure to fire at the helicopters and/or take cover, both before and after the helicopter attacked.)

<<"The Air Weapons Team (AWT) of two Apache AH-64s (part of the 1st Cavalry Division) had been requested by the Army's 2-16 Infantry Battalion, under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Kauzlarich, before July 12 to support Operation Ilaaj. Tasked to conduct escort, armed reconnaissance patrols, counter-IED and counter-mortar operations, the two helicopters left Camp Taji at 9.24am. They arrived on station in New Baghdad at 9.53am, where, according to the official report, sporadic attacks on coalition forces continued.">>

New Baghdad is one of the nine administrative districts of the City of Baghdad, which has a total population of 6.5 million people.  (see Wikipedia articles on both New Baghdad and Baghdad for this information.)  Assuming all nine districts to be roughly equal in population, New Baghdad would have an approximate population of 722,222.  So you have two helicopters dispatched to a district of about 720,000 people, where somewhere somebody is making "sporadic" attacks on coalition forces.  Not even those fucking Neanderthals are so fucking dumb that they would mistake a dozen guys taking up no firing positions, taking no cover from helicopters, firing no weapons and walking along a street in broad daylight as the people making "sporadic attacks" on Americans somewhere in a city of 720,000 people.  This is just crap.

Again use your head, CU4, Ami.  Use your common sense.  Use your judgment.  Do these guys LOOK like they're afraid?  Under fire?  In danger of being shot down?  Do they SOUND like it?  And ask yourself, if the Army is so fucking innocent, why did they fight so hard to keep the tape from the eyes and ears of the American people?  Why does it come to the eyes and ears of the people only through the agency of a whistle-blower?   The answer is all too obvious.  These guys are liars and murderers and everyone can see it.

Plane

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Re: New Tapes of Another U.S. Massacre of Civilians About to be Released
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2010, 07:15:45 PM »
The army, when it was hiding the tapes, said that the men were engaged in a battle.

Did this look like a battle to you?  Did the guys sound like they were in a battle to you?  I've seen numerous newsreels of men in battle, being shot at, and none of them sounded anything like those jokers in the helicopter.

You know God-damn well that was no battle.  Not even close to one.


This seems poorly thought out.

Do you beleive that the American Soldiers really have nothing to fear from the helpless Iriqui fighter?

The poorly trained and poorly armed resistance causes no worry to the mirthfull professionals that they attempt to attack in all futility?

Would you like to recruit yourself to our propaganda force?

You are a natural.