Fewer Guns, Fewer Deaths

[domer]

Anyone want to argue Second Amendment "rights" today?

[sirs]

I'd suggest reading my counterpoint article on the 2nd amendment, which outines a non-laweresque position on the status and importance of the 2nd amendment quite distinctly. 

And if memory serves me right you're a staunch supporter of liberty vs the supposed erosion of those rights in the face of dealing with the Terrorist threat, by this very administration.  It would be kinda hypocritical to then wish to dismantle one of our core liberties, doncha agree?

Not to mention how completely simplistic, & minus any assemblence of nuance your thread title would tend to imply.

[domer]

Personally, I reject the "militia rights" approach to the Second Amendment, believing in a "personal rights" approach (even in the face of contrary evidence: a historian-friend of mine who has researched the matter claims that gun ownership at founding was sparse, due to cost) that the prevailing way of life before and at founding had guns as a central feature -- for hunting but crucially also for protection -- even when the budding urban areas are taken into account. This personal use, I argue, gives an important key to understanding the controverted language of the Second Amendment.

That said, this is a right that must be earned and should be severely regulated.

[kimba1]

it should be treated as a right not as a requirement
meaning people who wish not to own it should be left alone and not be called idiots by the NRA members
which is not a smart move by people of the NRA,since alot of non-gun owner are supporters of the 2nd amendment.

[Amianthus]

meaning people who wish not to own it should be left alone and not be called idiots by the NRA members

Care to provide a sample?

[Amianthus]

Anyone want to argue Second Amendment "rights" today?

Guns only in the hands of the government and criminals, more deaths.

[sirs]

Anyone want to argue Second Amendment "rights" today?

Guns only in the hands of the government and criminals, more deaths.

Boy, can't get any more definative, than that     

[kimba1]

Can`t provide links since it`s been almost a year since I talked about it
but quite a few times I notice gun supporters don`t want gun owners right they want mandatory ownership.
many times I`ve heard statements"your not patriotic if you don`t own a gun"
even here I hear on talks about the right to not own guns I will hear" everybody has the right to be stupid".
these statements don`t exactly support the RIGHT`s of people.
despite the NRA stating they support people decision to not own guns.
there are very valid reasons for this

[sirs]

Can`t provide links since it`s been almost a year since I talked about it but quite a few times I notice gun supporters don`t want gun owners right they want mandatory ownership.  many times I`ve heard statements"your not patriotic if you don`t own a gun"

Say WHAT??  As a prior NRA member and stauch Bill of Rights advocate, what are you talking about, Kimba?     The NRA has always supported the right to bear arms, not a right that "everyone-is-to-have-one-and-if-you-don't-you're-not-being-patriotic".  To be honest, that sounds alot like rhetoric you'd hear coming from groups like Brady, purposely distorting the position of the NRA and gun rights advocates.  Unless you can show me some quotes or an NRA platform pushing such an extreme position, I'm gonna have to assume you're falling into the latter category

[Michael Tee]

How about they can own a licensed gun if they have no criminal record and never pleaded insanity to any criminal charges?  And the gun they own has to be kept on the premises of a licensed gun club or shooting range which will lose its licence and forfeit a five million dollar bond if any gun in its custody ever strays off the premises?

[sirs]

How about they can own a licensed gun if they have no criminal record and never pleaded insanity to any criminal charges? 

Minus the license, absolutely

And the gun they own has to be kept on the premises of a licensed gun club or shooting range which will lose its licence and forfeit a five million dollar bond if any gun in its custody ever strays off the premises?

Ummm, no.  That has no bearing what-so-ever to what the 2nd amendment embodies.  It's no surprise in locales with more liberal concealed carry laws, that gun violence and crimes using guns is lower, than those locales with extreme regulations/restrictions of gun ownership

[Michael Tee]

<< It's no surprise in locales with more liberal concealed carry laws, that gun violence and crimes using guns is lower, than those locales with extreme regulations/restrictions of gun ownership>>

Yeah?  Wonder what kind of liberal concealed carry laws were operating around Virginia Tech when the shit hit the fan?  Or how many students woulda bin killed if he could only have accessed his weapons at a licensed gun club from which he could never remove them?

[sirs]

<< It's no surprise in locales with more liberal concealed carry laws, that gun violence and crimes using guns is lower, than those locales with extreme regulations/restrictions of gun ownership>>

Yeah?  Wonder what kind of liberal concealed carry laws were operating around Virginia Tech when the shit hit the fan? 

I have no clue.  My guess is that like most universities, they have very strict rules, if not complete banning of guns on campus = only the bad guys and law enforcement have them.  And if there are no armed law enforcement on campus --> can lead precisely to what transpired today

Or how many students woulda bin killed if he could only have accessed his weapons at a licensed gun club from which he could never remove them?

You seem to be under the warped impression that bad guys (you know, the ones that commit murder, and kill pursposely people with guns) would actually follow such a regulation.  Unfortunately Tee, in the real world, such strict enforcment and abridgement of the 2nd amendment puts at risk, and in this case, hurts the innocents the most, as the killer would have simply obtained one illegally.  A more realistic question would be how many students woulda been killed if a trained citizen/student with a CCW were on campus at the time the killer was lining up his 1st victim, and was in a position to stop it?

[kimba1]

I never said the NRA was behind this .
I said certain members think like this.
I never even heard of brady
I even qouted members here are happy with the right to not own a gun.

[BT]

I don't own a gun.

Have never felt the need for one, and am quite happy not owning one.

But tell me i can't own one and i'll buy one before the ink is dry on your law.
 
Because then i will feel the need for one.