question about hillary

[The_Professor]

We do that here in Houston County. It seems to help.

[Cynthia]

Objections are in the direction that you seem to want to shovel the "d" problems into and under one roof.

tame the masses......those who don't tow the line.

Oh...that's an idea.

BT, one way or the Highway attitude?

My objection is that you are not an educator, but an arm chair idealist.

Discipline problems can be altered and controlled through change in more than one way.....and helping families who have few or no resources to support the child, is one way to attack the problem.

I guess I hate to hear someone blatantly come up with a way to solve a problem that involves a brick, or cemented four wall location.

[Xavier_Onassis]

They have schools for kids with learning and discipline problems in Miami-Dade County, but it hasn;t made any major difference that I can see.

Of course, I teach in a private university, and my daughter graduated in 1990.

[BT]

Perhaps the idealists can teach at the D school and let the pragmatists teach the other 35 kids in a class who want to learn.


Since when did the one or two in a class who have behavior problems take precedence over those who want to learn?

[Cynthia]

They have schools for kids with learning and discipline problems in Miami-Dade County, but it hasn;t made any major difference that I can see.

Of course, I teach in a private university, and my daughter graduated in 1990.

I am frankly happy to say that we in NM are not up to the "par" of many States in the Union.ha!

But, children are going to always have problems...even the gifted.

Differences in learning styles, cognition, and social interaction ..no matter...children all deserve attention.

[Cynthia]

Perhaps the idealists can teach at the D school and let the pragmatists teach the other 35 kids in a class who want to learn.


Since when did the one or two in a class who have behavior problems take precedence over those who want to learn?

Are you saying that those kids who have problems don't want to learn?

I get the feeling that you are reprimanding and finding fault with those kids, BT.

They do have the potential to learn.

I have one in my class...and he is helpless because of his home environment. He comes to my class and he is inspired to learn. He loves school. I would hate to hear that anyone would put him into an institution of sorts....because he is a child of gang members......which he is.  Damn, you've hit a nerve with me, Bill. But you are good at that...and frankly, I thank you for that.

Your 3DHS is here to stay for the very reason...that is your guidance..but it's hard to respond with such topics when challenged by you sometimes....it brings a teacher to a critical mass moment.

There's so much more to say about education.....why? It depends of the individual, always. ..always.....

Children are always to be given the benefit of the doubt that raised them.

[BT]

If he loves mainstream school then he will modify his behavior to avoid d school.

And if he doesn't maybe a visit to d school will help him appreciate what he is missing.

And if d school doesn't work out there is always juvi school.

[Cynthia]

I think it's better to try to help kids and families, before punishing them by sending them to D- or Juvi schools.
That was my point. I don't think that we as a society care to try that venue as often as PUT THEM AWAY.....where they will stay and learn a lesson. not necessarily, BT

[BT]

I think it's better to try to help kids and families, before punishing them by sending them to D- or Juvi schools.
That was my point. I don't think that we as a society care to try that venue as often as PUT THEM AWAY.....where they will stay and learn a lesson. not necessarily, BT

Perhaps that is the problem. Schools are not designed to be social services agencies. They are designed to educate the citizens of the future.

I am not saying you shouldn't take a personal interest in a troubled student. Good on you if you do. What i am saying is when their behavior affects the other students in a class and takes away from their learning opportunities, then something else needs to be done.

We don't think twice about removing cancerous tumors from a body so that the disease doesn't spread.

Why should troublesome students be any different?

Setup a branch office of child services at D school, if need be.

[_JS]

We don't think twice about removing cancerous tumors from a body so that the disease doesn't spread.

Why should troublesome students be any different?

Possibly because a troublesome student is nothing at all like a "cancerous tumor."

[BT]

Possibly because a troublesome student is nothing at all like a "cancerous tumor."

Why not? Are they not a tax on teachers time? Do they not distract from the mission? Do they not eat up valuable resources disproportionate to their numbers?

It's funny. We don't think twice about removing drunk drivers from the highway. And when we do so, we don't care what kind of childhood they had. We remove them from the highway because they are a danger to others.

I suggest that those who interfere with the primary goal of schools which is to educate our children, are  a danger too society, just as much as a drunk driver is to those on the highway.

[_JS]

Possibly because a troublesome student is nothing at all like a "cancerous tumor."

Why not? Are they not a tax on teachers time? Do they not distract from the mission? Do they not eat up valuable resources disproportionate to their numbers?

It's funny. We don't think twice about removing drunk drivers from the highway. And when we do so, we don't care what kind of childhood they had. We remove them from the highway because they are a danger to others.

I suggest that those who interfere with the primary goal of schools which is to educate our children, are  a danger too society, just as much as a drunk driver is to those on the highway.

Drunk drivers are removed for being an immediate danger to the safety of others. Not for "interfering with the primary goal" of other drivers or the transportation system of a government. Once again the parallel you are illustrating is not even close to identical.

Children are people, human beings, not statistical units of production measured against resources to rate effectiveness of output and production. You're starting to sound like the Nationalist Government of South Africa.

[kimba1]

i think the problem is in the past too many of these truely bad students who should really be dead or in prison actually do too well.
I think the solution is too not allow these people jobs with any authority.
a d or juvi school is pretty much mean a point of no return.

[BT]

I am not suggesting that children are not people. I am not suggesting that children with disruptive behavior should be abandoned. I am suggesting a d school might be better equipped to rescue these children than aurora mainstream middle school might be.

I am not suggesting that additional resources can not be brought to bear at these schools. I am not suggesting that councellors, nutritionists, medical and oter personnel can not be made available.

I am suggesting that a resource be made available so that these kids can be rescued.

Now why are you against that opportunity for redemption?

[kimba1]

in san francisco
we have a school which pretty much a juvi school .
and it just like the place you`r thinking about.
but for these kids to get there they have to be kicked out of every school in the city.
so with that in mind funding cannot ever be great for that building.
it just unrealistic in government to ever properly fund a place that expect thier student to fail.
I`m not against redemption but i do notice patterns that such desires to help kids get a education is lacking.
p.s. it`s not exactly true private schools refuse troublesome kids
if a parent donate enough money the child tends to behaive in the eyes of the faculty.
for some reason alot of my co-worker used to work in private schools and seen this happen ALOT