Author Topic: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out  (Read 12449 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2008, 01:13:30 PM »
<<Or is our exploitation of Japan diffrent from our exploitation of other countrys in some way I am missing?>>

In the first place, General MacArthur was a near-genius.  Unlike a certain Presidential candidate I can think of, Douglas MacArthur not only stood first in his class at West Point, but reportedly, only one other cadet had attained higher academic standing, a fella called Robert E. Lee.  You are unfortunately all out of General MacArthurs and have been for a long time.

Japan was totally defeated, fed up with its former ways, very admiring of America and looking to be shown a new way.  There was no resistance.  America's prowess in war had been decisively demonstrated and Japan had been decisively defeated.  No one fucks with the A-bomb.  And because of their former conduct, I think the Japs knew that nobody was going to think twice about dropping another one.

In every way, Iraq is the opposite - - the American administrators are morons, the troops are raping, murdering thugs (yes, despite all the "GI-with-local-kids propaganda pictures" which fool nobody) the Iraqis, far from being decisively defeated, have fought the Americans off for five years, longer than their WWII involvement, at a cost of three trillion dollars, which everyone knows, CANNOT be sustained and so they know if they just hang on . . .   NOBODY has discredited the former regime (people now know that even the "joyous crowd" celebrating the fall of Saddam's statue was trick framing) and in fact polls show that more Iraqis think life was BETTER under Saddam and certainly no one is looking to the Americans to show them a better way, and finally anyone who isn't a moron knows that the Americans came to steal their oil.

So in short, if you think that Iraq in 2008 = Japan in 1945:  it doesn't.

Plane

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #76 on: May 31, 2008, 01:40:39 PM »
Quote
at a cost of three trillion dollars, which everyone knows, CANNOT be sustained and so they know if they just hang on . . . 


Yes I also think that without this factor they would have quit a cupple of years ago. They expected us to fold quickly.

But a trillion more or less is not what it used to be. In practical terms we could sustain this level of loss forever , if it looked like we were determined to stay till the job was done , it would probably be done already.

Japan benifited then ,from being beaten more thouroughly ?
We better remember this next time.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2008, 01:55:49 PM »
<<But a trillion more or less is not what it used to be. >>

Stop complaining, plane.  If you just tighten your belt a little, it should be more than enough for you.

<<In practical terms we could sustain this level of loss forever. . . >>

In practical terms, you're already circling the drain.  Your dollar is in trouble and your balance of trade sucks. 

<<if it looked like we were determined to stay till the job was done , it would probably be done already.>>

Well, in the REAL world, it DOESN'T look like you are determined to stay till the job is done.  In the real world, it looks like your citizenry is getting pretty God-damned fed up with a war that has cost three trillion (against initial estimates of $50 billion,) created bottomless hatred for the U.S.A. across the planet, lasted for longer than your WWII involvement (against a country of only 23 million people!!) and shows no foreseeable end in sight.  In the REAL world, anyone who can read a newspaper or follow an election campaign understands perfectly well that your clock is running out.

<<Japan benifited then ,from being beaten more thouroughly ?>>

Japan benefited because its people were forward-looking, anxious to become a part of modern Western civilization (while keeping important elements of traditional culture) and in being occupied AFTER they were thoroughly beaten from the air.

<<We better remember this next time.>>

Remember it all you like, you still won't be able to replicate the conditions I just set out.  What you'd do better to remember is the ass-kickings you received in Korea, Viet Nam and now Iraq.  It'll save you a world of pain.  Not to mention national bankruptcy.  You still haven't even paid off your Viet Nam debts.

Plane

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2008, 02:01:13 PM »
"You still haven't even paid off your Viet Nam debts."


Who do we owe them to?

Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2008, 03:39:41 PM »
"You still haven't even paid off your Viet Nam debts."


Who do we owe them to?

==================================================

T-bill holders, I would guess.  Bond-holders.  Plus holders of whatever other financial instruments the U.S. raises loans with.

Amianthus

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2008, 04:03:20 PM »
"You still haven't even paid off your Viet Nam debts."


Who do we owe them to?

==================================================

T-bill holders, I would guess.  Bond-holders.  Plus holders of whatever other financial instruments the U.S. raises loans with.

The longest debt instrument the US Government issues is 30 year bonds. According to my calculations, the Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2008, 04:22:21 PM »
In practical terms, you're already circling the drain.  Your dollar is in trouble and your balance of trade sucks. 



You know ,don't you ,that a low dollar will fix our balance of trade , and once we fix the dolar the balance of trade will go red again.

A bad trade balance is a sign of strength , like too much.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2008, 05:42:59 PM »
<<The longest debt instrument the US Government issues is 30 year bonds. According to my calculations, the Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago.>>

Chew on this, wunderkind - - when the first series falls due, another series is issued to pay them off, and when that series falls due, another one.  What you should be looking at is the total indebtedness of the U.S.A. and whether it is growing or shrinking.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2008, 05:48:05 PM »
You know ,don't you ,that a low dollar will fix our balance of trade , and once we fix the dolar the balance of trade will go red again.

A bad trade balance is a sign of strength , like too much.
======================================================
Geeze, what is this, 1984 again?  War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery and Ignorance is Strength.  And so, apparently, is a bad balance of trade.

A sinking dollar is a BAD sign, it means no one wants your money cuz its no good.  Your money shrank because your credit's no fucking good and your balance of trade is down because nobody wants what you have to sell.  Other countries can make it cheaper and sell it cheaper.

Plane

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2008, 06:16:18 PM »
You know ,don't you ,that a low dollar will fix our balance of trade , and once we fix the dolar the balance of trade will go red again.

A bad trade balance is a sign of strength , like too much.
======================================================
Geeze, what is this, 1984 again?  War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery and Ignorance is Strength.  And so, apparently, is a bad balance of trade.

A sinking dollar is a BAD sign, it means no one wants your money cuz its no good.  Your money shrank because your credit's no fucking good and your balance of trade is down because nobody wants what you have to sell.  Other countries can make it cheaper and sell it cheaper.

No you can't have it both ways.

Many things are equivelent like Georgian, Costa Rican and Canadian plywood.

The relitive cost of the domestic product improves withthe falling dollar and we import less plywood.

Amianthus

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2008, 06:17:32 PM »
Chew on this, wunderkind - - when the first series falls due, another series is issued to pay them off, and when that series falls due, another one.  What you should be looking at is the total indebtedness of the U.S.A. and whether it is growing or shrinking.

Doesn't seem to be a problem with Social Security. Didn't you say that "investing" all the extra SS funds in 30 year loans to Congress was an ok thing to do?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2008, 10:26:53 PM »
Many things are equivelent like Georgian, Costa Rican and Canadian plywood.

===============================================
I would imagine that Costa Rican plywood would be made of Costa Rican trees, which are not Douglas fir, Tamaracs or other northern softwoods such as Canadian plywood is made from.

Allow me to suggest this thought: when your money is worth less, you have less potential to buy things. This is, for you, not a good thing.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2008, 11:24:05 PM »
Many things are equivelent like Georgian, Costa Rican and Canadian plywood.

===============================================
I would imagine that Costa Rican plywood would be made of Costa Rican trees, which are not Douglas fir, Tamaracs or other northern softwoods such as Canadian plywood is made from.

Allow me to suggest this thought: when your money is worth less, you have less potential to buy things. This is, for you, not a good thing.

This is true for international products , domestic products take the same pay cut I do.

Costa Rica has some very good trees and so does Canada , the falling dollar is good for American lumberjacks who eat American food.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2008, 01:09:29 AM »
Many things are equivelent like Georgian, Costa Rican and Canadian plywood.

The relitive cost of the domestic product improves withthe falling dollar and we import less plywood.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the first time I have seen an argument that a falling dollar is good for America.  Of course, if you focus on specific areas of trade, there will be some sectors which benefit: possibly, as you point out, plywood exports.  The falling dollar is bad for other sectors: oil imports.  What's the big picture?

America has a huge trade deficit.  Imports much more than it exports (measured in dollar volume) and that situation long pre-dated the fall of the dollar.  The cause is not hard to find:  things that you used to export can be made better and cheaper elsewhere.  That isn't going to change.  If your currency lowers to make your exports more attractive to foreign buyers, you are making it correspondingly more expensive to buy foreign imports.  Since you import much more than you export, and since some imports (like oil) are absolutely essential to your economy, the NET EFFECT of a falling dollar is going to be damaging to the U.S. economy.  Also, since many of your exports (plywood) depend on imported fuel to run the processing and transport of the raw materials and finished products, the benefits of a falling dollar (expanded markets) are wholly or partially offset by the increased production and transportation costs to the manufacturer.

So even without factoring in the Iraq war, you are fighting a losing battle against a very unfavourable balance of trade and a falling dollar.  Now superimposed on this mess, you have a three trillion dollar debt run up by the Iraq War.  (Some of which, true enough, may already be reflected in the existing budget deficit.)  A war that was originally costed out at a mere $50 billion.  I think at this point very, very few people realize or wish to publicly admit the sheer immensity of the stupidity which has brought you to this point.  Even many who claim, correctly IMHO, that George W. Bush is the worst President in all of American history, do not fully appreciate just how big a fiscal catastrophe is about to hit you because of these  colossal fuck-ups.  A country as deep in the hole as yours is, has only one practical way out, print more money.  And that's the shortest of short-term fixes.  The more you print, the less it's worth.   Everyone, particularly every currency speculator, can see what's coming way down the road, the cycle of printing and devaluation, each step of which postpones the inevitable adjustment.  In very short order the currency is worthless and the day of reckoning arrives.  A new dollar is printed and its value upheld, not by your currency reserves (which have long ago run out in vain attempts to maintain the value of the dollar against recurrent waves of speculative selling) but by government promises to foreign creditors of a drastic period of "belt-tightening."  Slashing credit.  Slashing imports.  Slashing government services and entitlements.  Slashing military expenditures and particularly foreign military adventures.  Leading to, of course, to high unemployment, reduced welfare and SS payments, deteriorating public sector, more crime, less police . . .

That's what the fall of your dollar really means, plane.  By no stretch of the imagination is this good for the country, although I admit some plywood manufacturers may well enjoy some of the temporary benefits.  That would be only a very small part of the total picture.

Michael Tee

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Re: Poor R-Wingers: Scotty McClellan Sells Them Out
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2008, 01:12:35 AM »
<<Didn't you say that "investing" all the extra SS funds in 30 year loans to Congress was an ok thing to do?>>

Sounds to me like a very stupid, reckless and irresponsible thing to do.  Not only do I not recall saying any such thing, I can't even imagine myself ever saying so, and if I did, I must have been very, very badly mistaken.