DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on October 27, 2014, 10:57:51 PM
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http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Buzz/2014/1027/Hillary-Clinton-says-businesses-don-t-create-jobs.-Uh-oh.-video...
"You know that old theory, trickle-down economics. That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly. You know, one of the things my husband says when people say ‘Well, what did you bring to Washington,’ he said, ‘Well, I brought arithmetic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyUoCiWsTfI
'Don’t let anybody tell you that it’s corporations and businesses that create jobs.'
Ok , you call this, is she abysmally stupid , or is she cynical and assumes her audience is abysmally stupid?
I think it would be kinder to call her stupid , but I really think she isn't , I would bet that she knows better but has just that little respect for her voters.
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Yea I did......trying to torpedo her chances, before she even gets started? Oh yea, this is how its not the private sector that creates jobs. This is all about how Government creates them.......by taxing the private sector & middle class into oblivion, so that the only entity still standing is Government. Right?
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I used to think she wanted very much to be President.
Could be not so.
Perhaps she just wants to sell a lot of books.
Charge a lot of speakers fees.
Otherwise amass a fortune.
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http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/10/27/right-wing-media-praise-failed-theory-of-trickl/201330
This is putting bandages on damage.
Refocus the remark on to "Trickle Down Theory" .
This will probably be good enough for the people who think that" Trickle down theory " is a real thing.
Does anyone know where "Trickle Down Theory " was ever taught , or practiced as a policy?
"Trickle down" is Democrat speak, for getting hired by someone who should just be handing you the money.
Republicans don't do "Trickle Down" we prefer "rising tide lifts all boats".
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Well Summized there, Master Yoda 8)
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The rising tide has only been lifting luxury yachts since 1977 or so.
The Republicans need a new slogan, because that one is inoperative.
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Actually, and literally, all boats rise when the tide rises. Dingys, intertubes, and yachts alike
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This is true if you are talking about the actual ocean.
It is untrue if you are using this as a metaphor for the economy.
If you are an investor, it is true. If you are the average person who derives most of his income from wages, it is untrue.
I have received income from both sources. My wages were more or less in line with inflation.
My investments far outpaced inflation.
I do not attribute this to my personal cleverness so much as the cleverness and foresight of those who write the newsletter I use to select investments.
The newsletter almost NEVER refers to how politicians have succeeded or are to blame for the rises and falls in the market.
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This is true if you are talking about the actual ocean.
The point is rhetorical.....and accurate to the economy as well. Policies that help EVERYONE, including those dastardly rich, are precisely the policies that Conservatives support from GOP candidates. You see, "fair" in our dictionary applies to EVERYONE
Politicians have very little influence on the market. Government Policies can cause it to nosedive, but the market's successes are almost always happening in spite of what the Fed is trying to do. Anytime the Fed can either stay out of the way, or more so, push policies to apply to EVERYONE is the literal definition of fair
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(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz102914dAPC20141029124541.jpg)
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The economy has not benefited the average American since the mid-70's.
That is simply a fact.
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Our economy ebs and flows...the "average American" has benefitted when policies helped spur economic growth, as they did under Reagan, and from the free market, as they did under Clinton. The "average American" has been screwed when policies were allowed to fester and degrade certain markets, as they did under Bush II, and from policies trying to mandate behavior, both to businesses and to individuals, as they currently are under Obama. Yes, the "dreaded rich" generally do better, but that doesn't negate that the "average American" also does better. And when "the rich" get hit financially, they lose a hell of a lot more than the "average American"
Policies that help EVERYONE, including the dreaded "rich" are to be supported and applauded. And no amount of idiotic comments by a wound-be want-to-be president Clinton is going to change that fact
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Yes, well said.
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Reagan did nothing for the average American. At the beginning of his term, he took measures that resulted in a lot of unemployment.
The average person did not get paid more in 1988 in real dollars than in 1980, and there was a good chance that he was unemployed.
Reagan was no help to the average American.
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That's one opinion. The other, backed up by actual facts, demonstrates that lowered taxes actually had revenues to the treasury increase. 22 million jobs were created, and the average income for ALL classes, upper, middle, and lower went UP while unemployment went down. Can't say the same for the current administration now, can we. Not to mention that gas and food prices also went down, following the repeal of the dreaded policies of the prior Administration
You're right though...Reagan was no help to the "average American". He was a help to EVERY American
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Not only was Reagan re-elected, his vice president got elected without divorceing himself from the Reagan program.
All the while the Reagan Slogan "Are you better off now than four years ago?" never turned around and bit him.
Why didn't we clone the guy?
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It's one of the reasons politician, after politician, after politician, including our present community organizer and chief has gone out of their way to compare their actions & policies to Reagan's
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Reagan was a hired asshole of the Oligarchy. He was turd in the punchbowl of democracy.
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Lol.....so Obama was making himself out to be a hired a-hole of the oligarchy when he was comparing himself to Reagan? I guess you could be right, there. :D
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Reagan blathered on and on before he was elected about the debt and inflation, but the fact is that the inflation and the debt went up during his term.
And only the rich and investors saw their income grow.
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That does not look like facts.
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Indeed, it doesn't. Nor does it explain the plethora of politicians, including our current clown & chief comparing himself to this supposed oligarchy controlled dolt
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"I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what is different is the times. I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think he tapped into what people were already feeling. Which is we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing." ....Obama, 2008
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Does this mean that President Obama was trying to get "Morning in America"?
He set a high bar for himself in comparison of his Presidency to that of Reagan , I don't think he understood the philosophical underpinnings of the Reagan Revolution.
If there was to be an "Obama revolution" it should have had philosophical framework that could be explained to the people , as far as I can tell there was nothing like this.
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Well Plane, that's the disconnect. We're hearing how horribly piss poor a President Reagan was, yet Obama is trying to compare himself to him. My question still seems to have gone unanswered in that is Obama trying to claim how piss poor a president he was going to be??
And are all these examples of Obama's piss poor leadership coming how to roost, of his specific behest & push, or are there oligarchal strings we can blame instead?
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Well , there you go again.
Hehehehe
Seriously if someone had to outline the philosophy of the Obama administration , would it be something definite or something amorphous?
I don't feel I could characterize the philosophical status of the Obama presidency , even if I were allowed to be very vague.
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You could answer that in 2 parts......though with an obvious partisan prism, since its I that's opining.
As it relates to the "Philosophy of the Obama Administration"
1) Bt accurately referenced that for the "average American", Obama was a blank canvas, where he was to be everything they expected him to be. Many have been sorely disappointed, in what they got. Far more knew exactly what they were going to get, but gave him the benefit of the doubt and re-elected him. Severe buyer's remorse now, and the Democrat party is going to pay a huge price in a week. Which is also why Obama is planning on unleashing, what he himself made clear, as an unconstitutional order to grant millions more illegal immigrants, a status of amnesty.....thereby overwhelming our social & medical services, which in turn will "necessitate" still more Government intervention.
2) from the point of view of the "Obama administration", their philosophy & goal was to transform this country into something it wasn't.....to fundamentally change they way they do things in Washington". They had a vision, but there would be no way in hell they could have gotten elected, had they run on the policies of bigger and bigger government control....of everything. From light bulbs to control of one's very health. No, those policies had to be cloaked on poll driven rhetoric, that would placate the electorate, without showing their hand on true intentions. It's why we have arguably the least transparent administration, in modern day history.
And to top it off, this administration is shielded by a compliant media, that wouldn't dare risk the aura of being branded racist, for daring to scrutinize this country's 1st Black President. It's one of the only things that explains how so many scandals and gaffes by this administration are buried by the MSM, that would otherwise be 24/7 news, if it were a Republican president, and their administration
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(http://www.mrc.org/sites/default/files/uploads/images/2014/UpdatedMRCStudyChart.JPG)
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Well Plane, that's the disconnect. We're hearing how horribly piss poor a President Reagan was, yet Obama is trying to compare himself to him. My question still seems to have gone unanswered in that is Obama trying to claim how piss poor a president he was going to be??
And are all these examples of Obama's piss poor leadership coming how to roost, of his specific behest & push, or are there oligarchal strings we can blame instead?
Strange how there's been no rational explanation to this bizarre dichotomy ;)
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I used to think she wanted very much to be President.
Could be not so.
Perhaps she just wants to sell a lot of books.
Charge a lot of speakers fees.
Otherwise amass a fortune.
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv103114dAPC20141031024509.jpg)