Author Topic: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's  (Read 11098 times)

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BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2008, 10:06:43 PM »
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But, Bt I'm not making such an implication.  You are.

No . I am extending the logic of the argument to the point of absurdity.

Kinda like saying as a young man McCain spent several years in a Communist capitol and apparently tried to handle it by not having his passport stamped.


sirs

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2008, 11:40:13 PM »
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But, Bt I'm not making such an implication.  You are.

No . I am extending the logic of the argument to the point of absurdity.

No, you're inferrence is in Obama's a racist because his spiritual advisor and mentor is a racist = McCain must be a homophobe because his pastor is someone who thinks homosexuality is a sin. 

THAT's the absurdity of the extension


Kinda like saying as a young man McCain spent several years in a Communist capitol and apparently tried to handle it by not having his passport stamped.

Ummm, yea....... precisely       ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2008, 11:55:05 PM »
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Ummm, yea....... precisely   

You aren't disputing the historical record, are you?

sirs

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 12:06:24 AM »
Not at all.  Historically the sun sets in the west.  What implication can we apply to McCain with that?  Are you, by analogy trying to imply Obama didn't want to be "caught" in an anti-American racist's congregation, by......... not saying anything to the pastor?  I fail to see where this has any relevence, Bt
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2008, 12:17:47 AM »
The relevance is unless you have the entire story and the context that goes with it it is easy to condemn and second guess people.

I choose not to do that with Obama. You choose to do that with Obama. I don't expect presidents to be perfect. I do need to be able to trust them. I could trust Obama, i don't trust McCain.

I appreciate Obama's skills at oratory, would that GWB had the same skills. It would be a different world, i think.




sirs

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2008, 02:16:04 AM »
The relevance is unless you have the entire story and the context that goes with it it is easy to condemn and second guess people.

What context is missing??  Obama's pastor is an anti-american racist.  Obama's pastor is his publically proclaimed mentor and spiritual advisor.  Obama has been a member of said pastor's congregation for the last 20+years, and KNEW of his pastor's hyperbolic rhetoric, and has did & said NOTHING until it got media traction, while he was running on a "let's bring everyone together" platform.

I'm not missing anything here, Bt.  He could have simply left, he could have pulled his pastor aside and politely expressed concern about his racially devisiver rhetoric.  He did zip.  And no, I don't expect presidents to be perfect either, but I DO expect MUCH better judgement than Obama ha obviously shown, for him to run my country.  You want to give him a pass, that's your call.  I expect better judgement, or more so, I demand better

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2008, 02:22:22 AM »
The world isn't that simple.

Saying Obama should have disavowed Wright is like saying the GOP should not have let Strom Thurmond switch parties.


sirs

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2008, 04:28:48 AM »
I never said it was.  But certain concepts are hard to miss.  And 1 last time, Obama had multiple options.  I'm not mandating "disavowment".  So again, not sure how your attempt at anaolgy has any bearing to the points I've been making.  But to each, their own.  As I said, you want to give him a pass, so be it.  I expect better.  Not perfection, just better judgement than to embrace a racist pastor as your spiritual guide and mentor
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2008, 07:13:45 AM »
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Not perfection, just better judgement than to embrace a racist pastor as your spiritual guide and mentor

Isn't Zell Miller one of your good guys?


sirs

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2008, 02:02:26 PM »
Is Zell running for President?  I hadn't heard
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2008, 03:34:13 PM »
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Is Zell running for President?  I hadn't heard

Is it only those who run for president subject to this new standard of judgment test?

sirs

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2008, 04:27:29 PM »
Not at all, though I'm not sure what the relevence would be.  If you're trying to cite some nefariously poor judgement currently being undertaken by Zell, I'd be scrutining just as great as I would be Obama, if he were running for president as well.  Remember, I'm not expecting perfection either.  Just better judgement in my President, than Obama has shown
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2008, 04:54:07 PM »
What current bad judgment is Obama exhibiting? He distanced himself from Wrights views.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2008, 05:45:22 PM »
It seems to be racially divisive to say "Rich white men have always run this country", and "The Rich White Men who have always run the United States have run it for their own benefit and against the benefit of Black people", but it is also TRUE. Telling the truth may be deivsive, but that does not make it any less true.

Claiming that some of the WORMS (White Old Rich Men) that have always run the USA invented AIDS to destroy Black people is not truthful, however. It would have been stupid to invent a disease that kills White people as well as Black people (even if many of said White folks are gay), and they aren't smart enough (at least yet) to create a disease that would ONLY kill Black people. So that is simply a paranoid statement.

I fail to see where either statement is racist, however.

Farrakhan, like Elijah Mohammad before him, claimed that White people were deliberately and artificially created to be evil and far too clever (as well as White and blue-eyed) by a diabolic scientist on the Isle of Patmos (the same place where the Book of Revelation was said to have been written by someone named 'John'). I have not read or heard if Wright believes this or has ever written or said it, but I am sure that he has heard it, because anyone with a minor passing knowledge of the NOI (Nation of Islam) would have heard of it.

This is certainly a paranoid statement, and no one can deny that it is racist, because claiming that a race of people has been deliberately bred to be evil by a servant of Satan has to be racist. But it is a lot more paranoid than it is racist.

Most Black people I know generally react to any mention of the wackier beliefs of Farrakhan or the AIDS conspiracy that Wright mentioned, react to this by changing the subject, as one would upon hearing any mention of  some crazy relative that had a thing about peeping into windows, flashing the Congegation, or throwing a Tourret's Syndrome fit: they change the subject or ignore the whole thing.
This is the sort of thing to discuss where no White folks can hear you, such as in a barbershop or a beauty parlor.

I think that if Obama could serve to bring Americans closer together, this is something that has needed to be done for a century or more, and not something that Hillary or McCain could ever hope to do.

It does seem to have been one of Fidel's major accomplishments, but Cuba and the US are very different cultures. Cuba had lots of racists, especially white ones, and they are nearly all here in Miami. When Fidel came to power, banks (most of which were affiliated with or owned by Ameircans) were famous for never hiring Black people, not even to sweep. Fidel and Che Guevara made them hire no one else for several years.

If Obama were elected president, it would do more positive good for race relations than anything has ever done. More than the 14th Amendment, more than the Civil Rights Act.

It would also bring the troops home from Iraq sooner, maybe even before the 5000th casualty.




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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: McCain's pastor a sharp contrast to Obama's
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2008, 05:50:38 PM »
"bring the troops home from Iraq sooner"

then what?
pretend all is well
and proceed to stick your head in the sand?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987