DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on May 01, 2011, 11:44:57 PM
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17 Virgins!
Ha Ha
Rot in hell asshole!
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I thought I smelled something burning . . .
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I thought I smelled something burning . . .
Poochie.....whoever gave us the intel for that missle launch deserves a glass of fine wine!
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Great exit for Patraeus on his way to CIA. Congratulations!
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Seems a little odd like when, where, did he suffer, and other sordid details.
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I would like to see him stuffed and placed on display in the Smithsonian. Wouldn't that be cool?
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Note please that this was clearly a part of President Obama's agenda and he deserves some of the credit.
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My son Straypup just posted on FB to bury him at ground zero, facing away from Mecca, and install a urinal. All I have to say about that is, that's gonna be one lo-o-o-ong line!
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We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singing "Whiskey for my men and beer for my horses!"
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great idea Poochie!
except I hope it's not just a urinal
cause I wanna eat a bunch-o-pork
and take a big greasy screamin squirt dump on Bin Laden!
(http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/media/blogs/blog/9/osama_bin_laden_dead0001_66.jpg)
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Three questions:
What does this do to Obama's poll numbers
What now happens in Afghanistan
In the next six months should we expect more terror or less?
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President Obama's ....deserves some of the credit.
Sure he does XO....I will give him what you would never give your political nemesis.....credit.
Way to go Obama!
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Poochie.....whoever gave us the intel for that missle launch deserves a glass of fine wine!
Well, as you know by now, it wasn't a missile or a drone. It was human forces - apparently a team of Navy Seals. I would buy them any damn thing to drink they want.
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Well, as you know by now, it wasn't a missile or a drone. It was human forces -
Dont matter....misssle, M16, whateva.....still had to have that intel!
Fine wine and maybe 25 Million Dollars!
;D
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Ah, well, either way, Obama's administration finished the job Bush's couldn't...
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Piss off, Hnumpah. Bush and Obama both deserve credit for this. It is a scum bag that would make partisan comments at a time like this.
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Note please that this was clearly a part of President Obama's agenda and he deserves some of the credit.
It happened to be part of President Bush's agenda as well, but it did happen on Obama's watch, and his "green light", so he absolutely deserves credit, where credit is due
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Piss off, Hnumpah. Bush and Obama both deserve credit for this. It is a scum bag that would make partisan comments at a time like this.
Bite me, RR, Bush blew his chance running off on a wild goose chase in Iraq. With this one raid, Obama's administration has done more to fight terrorism than Bush and his cronies did shifting their focus to Saddam.
The only thing I give Bush credit for is allowing Osama to run free an extra eight years or so.
Choke on it.
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Ah, well, either way, Obama's administration finished the job Bush's couldn't...
Note that Osama was not in Afghanistan.
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Piss off, Hnumpah. Bush and Obama both deserve credit for this. It is a scum bag that would make partisan comments at a time like this.
Is it a surprise who the two are.....?
when all Americans are rejoicing about a victory for our country......
that the very first thing they post on this subject is partisan?
Hardly.....
Look at my first post....nonpartisan
Look at Pooch's first post.....nonpartisan
Look at Kramer's first post.....nonpartisan
Look at BT's first post....nonpartisan
Look at SIRS first post giving Obama and Bush credit.
Then look at the bitter hacks....they cant help themselves.....
Gotta get their partisanship to the front.....and even attack Bush
How sick!
As details emerge....officials state that very important intel
regarding this victory came from Guantanamo.
Ya know the Guantanamo many from their side have condemned and been outraged about.
Yes this victory happened under Obama's watch and he deserves credit.....
but it is amazing to watch people's first, honest reaction
country or bitter partisanship......
because it speaks volumes about who they are.
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Three questions:
What does this do to Obama's poll numbers
What now happens in Afghanistan
In the next six months should we expect more terror or less?
Give voters credit for undersdtanding that Obama deserves little credit for what our military did in killing UBL but rather credit for ruining our economy, and doing too little to create jobs in the private sector. This doesn't put a band-aid on the fact Obama is a bad president and he doesn't deserve a second term.
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Osama bin Laden buried at sea.
His last haven was a Pakistani military town
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report May 2, 2011, 10:38 AM (GMT+02:00)
(http://www.debka.com/dynmedia/photos/2011/05/02/big/BINLADEN06.jpg)
Buried at sea
US sources report that Osama bin Laden was buried at sea to avoid creating a permanent shrine on land for jihadist terrorists to visit. Saudi Arabia was first asked to take the body and refused.
US military and intelligence sources disclose that Abbottabad, where al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was shot dead Sunday night, May 2, by a squadron of US Seals, is a Pakistani garrison town where a large military base is located. His villa was just 100 meters away from Pakistan's military academy and 120 kilometers from the capital, Islamabad and Pakistani intelligence headquarters. Far from being holed up in a remote mountain cave, he lived in comfort in a million-dollar three-storey villa with his close family around him in a semi-urban area. These disclosures indicate that the Pakistani military and its intelligence must have known who was living in the exceptionally large, heavily guarded villa in their midst and in plain sight and kept the knowledge from the Americans.
The villa compound was encircled by 12-15 meter high walls topped by 7 foot privacy wall and barbed wire accessed through two steel, electrically-operated security gates. The Pakistanis could not have missed it when it was built in 2005 and more buildings were added later.
It is also emerging that the town of Abbottabad came to the notice of US intelligence four months ago: It was there that Indonesian al-Qaida's Umar Patek was arrested in Jan. 2011. He was on the run from a $1 million US bounty on his head, for helping mastermind the 2002 suicide bombings of nightclubs in Bali that killed 202 people. It would therefore seem that Abbottabad in Pakistan's North West Frontier region provided sanctuary not only for bin Laden but also for some of his high-profile Al Qaeda operations officers.
In his announcement of the al Qaeda leader's death, President Barack Obama glossed over Pakistan's complicity in keeping him hidden because - quite simply, the Afghanistan War may have lost its main target but it is far from over and the United States needs Islamabad to bring it to a conclusion. Taliban, which denies bin Laden was killed, will do its utmost to prove it is fully capable of fighting on without him and going on to defeat the Americans, NATO and Afghan President Hamid Karzai's army.
What effect the passing of the jihadist terrorist mastermind will have on future Pakistani cooperation with the US in the Afghanistan war is still moot. Islamabad may decide to go with the Taliban rather than the United States because of its overriding fear of Indian expansion and interest in using Afghanistan to gain strategic depth by means of a controlling influence in Kabul. To this end, Pakistani leaders may throw their support behind the Taliban rather than the Americans who will eventually leave. This would confront the US-led coalition forces fight' in Afghanistan with an escalated military challenge henceforth.
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my nephew called and asked hydra or snake?
I`m leaning more toward snake. I`m tired and i think alot of people are tired. I`m sure I`m wrong but we`ll see.
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Let me see if I've got this straight -- information comes to Obama that Usama is in a compound in Pakistan. Meanwhile everything Obama has done up to this point has failed; jobs, the economy, oil, etc. So Obama takes a nanno second to consider whether it would be good or bad to kill Usama. Being the gifted man Obama is he concluded that killing Usama would be a good thing for reelection so he directed people in our government in various agencies to kill Usama. WoW what an amazing accomplishment on the part of the former Jr Senator, coke snorting, pot smoking, Rev Wright following child president. He gets the credit for the no-brainer decision to kill enemy #1.
Question: What ever happened to the notion of bringing UBL back to NY to stand trial? Oh and I wonder how much information came out of suspicions interrogation practices that ultimately helped in this mission.
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Get Your Nuclear Masks Ready!
(http://www.ourbrisbane.com/sites/ourbrisbane.com/files/attached_pictures/9-news-logo.jpg)
Capturing bin Laden "would unleash hell"
00:37 AEST Tue Apr 26 2011
The mastermind of the 9/11 attacks warned that al-Qaeda has hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe which will unleash a "nuclear hellstorm" if Osama bin Laden is captured, leaked files revealed.
The terror group also planned to make a 9/11 style attack on London's Heathrow airport by crashing a hijacked airliner into one of the terminals, the files showed.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told Guantanamo Bay interrogators the terror group would detonate the nuclear device if the al-Qaeda chief was captured or killed, according to the classified files released by the WikiLeaks website.
Sheikh Mohammed, the self-professed mastermind of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, has been held at Guantanamo since 2006 and is to be tried in a military court at the US naval base on Cuba over the attacks.
His nuclear threat was revealed in Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper, one of several media outlets which have published the classified assessments of detainees at Guantanamo.
The German weekly Der Spiegel, also citing WikiLeaks, said that Sheikh Mohammed had told his interrogators he had set up two cells for the purpose of attacking Heathrow in 2002.
The aim was to seize control of an airliner shortly after take-off from Heathrow, one of the world's busiest airports, turn it around and crash it into one of the four terminals.
Sheikh Mohammed said one cell had been formed with the aim of taking flying lessons in Kenya, while the other had been tasked with recruiting participants.
He said the plot had been discussed several times at the highest level of al-Qaeda. One component had involved the infiltration of ground staff at the airport, according to Der Spiegel.
Another attack given the green light in late 2001 would have targeted "the tallest buildings in California" with hijacked airliners, Der Spiegel reported.
The attackers would have gained access to the airliner cockpits by setting off small bombs hidden in their shoes, it said.
Sheikh Mohammed, captured in 2003 in Pakistan, also claims to have personally beheaded US journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002 with his "blessed right hand" and to have helped in the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing that killed six people.
Der Spiegel noted that his "confessions" should have be treated with caution as they could have been extracted through torture. Sheikh Mohammed is known to have undergone the method known as "waterboarding".
Former US president George W. Bush claimed in his memoirs published last year that using the interrogation technique - which simulates drowning - helped prevent planned attacks on Heathrow and London's Canary Wharf business district.
He also told the London Times newspaper in November that it was "damn right" that he had authorised use of the method on Sheikh Mohammed.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8241119/capturing-bin-laden-would-unleash-hell (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8241119/capturing-bin-laden-would-unleash-hell)
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Decision time: Killing UBL in hopes of winning reelection or a Nuke going off in Europe.
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winning reelection or a Nuke going off in Europe.
Hopefully....none of the above! ;)
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Question: What ever happened to the notion of bringing UBL back to NY to stand trial? Oh and I wonder how much information came out of suspicions interrogation practices that ultimately helped in this mission.
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I imagine that this was discounted as being both very expensive, dangerous, provocative and dumb.
Fundamental Muslims, who we would be trying to impress, see prolonged trials as a waste of time. Official justice in Saudi Arabia consists of a kangaroo trial and a speedy beheading. The question of guilt need not be proven, as Osama already admitted his guilt, and proudly.
This was done professionally and well, with the President giving the orders and the Seals taking out the target without loss of life to themselves. It will certainly gain Obama votes in November 2012.
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Unbelievably strange:
May 1, 1945: Hitler confirmed dead.
May 1, 2011: Bin Laden confirmed dead.
[e-mail]
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It will certainly gain Obama votes in November 2012.
I guess that's all that matters. We are capable of giving Obama credit where due, but that doesn't mean we will ever vote for him. McCain would have acted on this lead as well. He probably would have got him back in March, which Obama passed on.
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This was done professionally and well......It will certainly gain Obama votes in November 2012.
I wouldn't be so sure of anything.
Obama killed Osama and deserves credit.
But Al Qaeda will probably strike back at the US with a vengeance before 2012.
Depending on how Obama reacts will determine his reelection. (besides the economy)
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I seriously doubt that there is any way the political troglodytes on this site would ever vote to reelect President Obama. They have already decided to vote against him rather than FOR any specific Republican and a schmuck like The Donald, who has no actual political stance and simply crave publicity. But the President will not be elected by you, who are in a shrinking minority.
If Al Qaeda could not act before Osama's death, how are they going to be able to do so afterward?
I do not advocate letting down our guard, but I deem any spectacular revenge to be unlikely.
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I seriously doubt that there is any way the political troglodytes on this site would ever vote to reelect President Obama.
"Ever" is a long word!
I have already committed to voting for Obama 2012
if he takes out and/or attacks the center of all Muslim mischief...A.K.A. IRAN.
Real regime change in Iran and I vote Obama 2012!
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If Al Qaeda could not act before Osama's death, how are they going to be able to do so afterward?
Sadly....I think you will live to regret this statement.
Actually it is an indication of how little Americans understand "The Long War".
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I have just come back from a long day at work, while co-workers decided it was their job to tell me:
1) 9/11 was a conspiracy planned by the American government or Israel or fill-in-the-blank
2) Osama bin Laden is not dead or Osama bin Laden has been dead for a long time. And that burying him at sea is proof that he either is not dead or has been dead for a long time.
Quite honestly, I found the whole thing really offensive because *I* was personally overjoyed at the news I woke up to today. And I am first, foremost and primarily an American. This news caused a surge of patriotism for me.
But Arabs live and die by conspiracy theories. They almost all fit right in with the tin-foil beanie wearers we all know and revile. And nothing - NOTHING - will convince them that there isn't a conspiracy; in fact, proof just deepens the conspiracy for them.
Argh. So I came here looking for some non-partisan joy with fellow Americans... and I found it.
Thank you Bush, thank you Obama. A job well done.
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I do not advocate letting down our guard, but I deem any spectacular revenge to be unlikely.
We (Americans in Jordan) have all received phone calls and emails from the Embassy in Amman advising Americans to stay at home until further notice. Interesting. I don't think my boss is going for it, but interesting nonetheless.
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Then look at the bitter hacks....they cant help themselves.....
Gotta get their partisanship to the front.....and even attack Bush
How sick!
Partisanship? As I look at my voter registration card, it still says 'Republican'. Has for 36 years. Dolt.
And I attack Bush and his thugs because they were the morons that gave Osama an extra eight years to hide and plot, after they pulled troops from Afghanistan to go on a wild goose chase in Iraq.
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Is it a surprise who the two are.....?
when all Americans are rejoicing about a victory for our country......
that the very first thing they post on this subject is partisan?
Hardly.....
Look at my first post....nonpartisan
Look at Pooch's first post.....nonpartisan
Look at Kramer's first post.....nonpartisan
Look at BT's first post....nonpartisan
Look at SIRS first post giving Obama and Bush credit.
Then look at the bitter hacks....they cant help themselves.....
Gotta get their partisanship to the front.....and even attack Bush
How sick!
As details emerge....officials state that very important intel
regarding this victory came from Guantanamo.
Ya know the Guantanamo many from their side have condemned and been outraged about.
Yes this victory happened under Obama's watch and he deserves credit.....
but it is amazing to watch people's first, honest reaction
country or bitter partisanship......
because it speaks volumes about who they are.
Thanks C. Good conclusions as well, IMHO
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Partisanship? As I look at my voter registration card, it still says 'Republican'. Has for 36 years. Dolt.
Yeah you're real brave name calling over the internet.
Republican! Ha....yeah sure.
RINO bitching about Bush for years!
BoooWho it's Bush's fault.
Put it on your tombstone!
Whine for eternity!
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And I attack Bush and his thugs because they were the morons that gave Osama an extra eight years to hide and plot, after they pulled troops from Afghanistan to go on a wild goose chase in Iraq.
You attack Bush because you are hater and cant rejoice as an American
at such news and need to use an event like this to take shots at political
opponents. Even XO didnt do that....you are a freaking disgrace.
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Argh. So I came here looking for some non-partisan joy with fellow Americans...and I found it.
Thank you Bush, thank you Obama. A job well done.
I agree Henny!
Be safe.
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I have just come back from a long day at work, while co-workers decided it was their job to tell me:
1) 9/11 was a conspiracy planned by the American government or Israel or fill-in-the-blank
2) Osama bin Laden is not dead or Osama bin Laden has been dead for a long time. And that burying him at sea is proof that he either is not dead or has been dead for a long time.
Quite honestly, I found the whole thing really offensive because *I* was personally overjoyed at the news I woke up to today. And I am first, foremost and primarily an American. This news caused a surge of patriotism for me.
But Arabs live and die by conspiracy theories. They almost all fit right in with the tin-foil beanie wearers we all know and revile. And nothing - NOTHING - will convince them that there isn't a conspiracy; in fact, proof just deepens the conspiracy for them.
Argh. So I came here looking for some non-partisan joy with fellow Americans... and I found it.
Thank you Bush, thank you Obama. A job well done.
Miss Henny, I didn't receive any phone calls or e-mailings, but I share the concern that prompted them. The snake's head has been cut off. At least the biggest head. It's going to flail now, try to demonstrate that they are "just fine". I fear several small terrorist acts will be attempted, with possible death as a result of their acts. Likely not massive in any way, but AlQeada has been dealt a huge PR & operations blow. They're gonna want to strike. Please watch over yourself and your loved ones. Keep a vigilant eye
Maybe you can answer this, with some experience to the region. If we have been hunting Bin Laden all this time, him fleeing Afghanistan into Pakistan, and we supposedly have been working with the Pakistani Government on trying to locate his hole in the side of a mountain, how is it he's killed within this apparent massive complex/mansion, deep in the heart of Islamabad, downtown central Pakistan? Was their Government that blinded to his whereabouts.........or that helpful to him?
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It will certainly gain Obama votes in November 2012. Not enough, not near enough
To quote the Dems when Bush 1 was was running for term 2 -- It's About the Economy Stupid! Obama is running for term 2 and it's still about the economy stupid!
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Rofl, a drive-by twofer for your amusement...
(http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/memes-nanana.jpg)
(http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/memes-you-rock-obama.jpg)
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Why do US officials link
Bin Laden killing with the Arab Revolt?
DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis May 2, 2011, 10:28 PM (GMT+02:00)
(http://www.debka.com/dynmedia/photos/2011/05/02/big/binladencompound2.5.11.jpg)
Osama bin Laden's bloodstained room, bed and passports.
The photos released of the fortified villa in Abbottabad, Pakistan, where Osama bin Laden died on Sunday night, May 2, show a satellite dish as well as cables and wires snaking along the outer and inner walls. Smashed computers appear in shots of the interior rooms. Far from dispensing with electronic devices and Internet connections as widely reported, the fortress that was the al Qaeda leader's last haven proves to have been equipped with both.
All this up-to-date electronic technology would have opened the six-year old building wide to outside intelligence penetration and surveillance. Bin Laden additionally suffered from a kidney disease and was dependent on dialysis treatment and outside medical care - another porthole into the Bin Laden's establishment.
There was no need therefore to follow the trail of the couriers described as leading the CIA to the hideout of the most wanted terrorist in the world. He occupied a large three-storey building which stuck out on the skyline of the Pakistani garrison town of Abbottabad, 120 kilometers from Islamabad, and towered over neighboring buildings. Pakistani intelligence must have been curious, to say the least, about this sizeable compound when it was built in 2005 just 100 meters from a military academy in a small town housing a military base and generals' residences.
Therefore, the repeated statements by US officials that the Navy Seals' special operation took place without Pakistani knowledge sounds like a hollow attempt to absolve Islamabad of involvement in the killing of the arch terrorist in the eyes of the Muslim world.
US President Barack Obama said he received his first lead to bin Laden's whereabouts last August. Why then did it take nine months for him to order the targeted operation? And why did the US intelligence and military need all that time to prepare it?
They are only two of the puzzling questions surrounding the episode. Might the answers lie in its juxtaposition with the Arab Revolt, or Arab Spring, which flared first in Tunisia in December 2010, then spread to Egypt and played out in February 2011 and flared in Syria in April 2011?
Was al Qaeda's spirit and mastermind eliminated before his networks could move in on the national and Islamic struggles which are still unfolding in Tunis, Cairo, Tripoli and Damascus?
The linkage was drawn by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in her first statement on the master-terrorist's death Monday: "history would record that bin Laden's death had come at a time when peoples in the Middle East and North Africa were rejecting the extremist narrative and were standing up for freedom and democracy."
Obama's adviser on terror John Brennan said later: "I would hope that the people of the Middle East will understand that the time for terror is over."
That of course will depend on how those peoples view the US targeted operation to kill the head of al Qaeda. The reaction in some places was of disbelief in the American claim to have killed him and demands for proof of his identity. The statement by "an American intelligence official" to Reuter was not helpful. He said "US Special forces set out to kill Osama bin Laden and dump his body in the sea to make it harder for the al Qaeda founder to become a martyr."
The head of the Al-Azhar Supreme Sunni Council of Egypt reacted by condemning the dumping of bin Laden's body in the sea as violating the tenets of Islam and human norms.
It was noted in Arab capitals, that he was killed in the second US targeted operation against an Arab leader in three days , NATO failed in its attempt to kill Libyan ruler Muammar Qaddafi Saturday night, April 30.
At his news briefing Monday night, John Brennan tried to soften the hard edges of resentment building up in Arab and Muslim opinion. To settle questions about identity, he reported that a DNA test had showed a 99.9 percent match against his relatives, but declined to say if and when photos of his body would be released..
Obama's adviser on terror went on to insist that Bin Laden had been given a religious Muslim funeral before being buried at sea. He also explained that the al Qaeda leader would have been taken alive had there been the opportunity.
Brennan disclosed that a large quantity of documents had been seized in the Abbottabad villa and was being checked. He added that it was inconceivable that the dead terrorist did not have a support system.
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/143848 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/143848)
so much for unification...
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Although I give Obama credit for killing Osama
I was thinking today and sorta laughing about
how you just know.....ya just know that if Bush
were still president, the media would be asking
if we had a warrant for Bin Laden's arrest,
if it violated international law, if the death could
have been avoided, if by killing him did we lose
valuable intelligence, etc. And we'd be told that the
death was mostly symbolic, that Bin Laden was a
man of yesterday, no longer a threat, it was a
waste of time and money, etc....
lol....hell.....you just know it!
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the msm are just weenies.
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I think complaining about what you assume might happen to be rather a waste of time.
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I agree Henny!
Be safe.
Thanks CU4!
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Miss Henny, I didn't receive any phone calls or e-mailings, but I share the concern that prompted them. The snake's head has been cut off. At least the biggest head. It's going to flail now, try to demonstrate that they are "just fine". I fear several small terrorist acts will be attempted, with possible death as a result of their acts. Likely not massive in any way, but AlQeada has been dealt a huge PR & operations blow. They're gonna want to strike. Please watch over yourself and your loved ones. Keep a vigilant eye
Thanks Sirs, and I will.
Maybe you can answer this, with some experience to the region. If we have been hunting Bin Laden all this time, him fleeing Afghanistan into Pakistan, and we supposedly have been working with the Pakistani Government on trying to locate his hole in the side of a mountain, how is it he's killed within this apparent massive complex/mansion, deep in the heart of Islamabad, downtown central Pakistan? Was their Government that blinded to his whereabouts.........or that helpful to him?
I think it is very possible that they were unaware. First, as I understand there is no way to effectively secure the entire border region, so coming through the mountainous route covered/disguised was probably no problem at all.
Then, in the neighborhood - the houses of the affluent, whether Pakistan or Jordan or Saudi or Iran are always completely walled off. The reason being so the women can work/relax in their gardens uncovered. If they have a pool, the women can swim. Etc. We have neighbors living like that - they live in fortresses. What I saw of the pictures of this house, it was the same idea. Then, on top of that, there will be guest areas of the house where guests can sit and socialize... and then there are family areas where uncovered women can hang out unseen. No guest will ever enter those areas. So, IMO, it is entirely reasonable to think that he could have been hanging out there and no one ever knew. Although I would suspect that a fairly large group had to have been in on it. But the government? Not necessarily.
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Although I give Obama credit for killing Osama
I was thinking today and sorta laughing about
how you just know.....ya just know that if Bush
were still president, the media would be asking
if we had a warrant for Bin Laden's arrest,
if it violated international law, if the death could
have been avoided, if by killing him did we lose
valuable intelligence, etc. And we'd be told that the
death was mostly symbolic, that Bin Laden was a
man of yesterday, no longer a threat, it was a
waste of time and money, etc....
lol....hell.....you just know it!
No no no no C. What you'd hear, everywhere is that Bush had killed Bin Laden long ago, and brought out his "death" at an opportunistic & beneficial political time
Which is funny, because I heard a parade of MSM pundits/reporters declaring precisely how this benefits Obama, politically for 2012. With the kicker being, it really doesn't. It'll be a small, and justifyable boost now, and for a short period of time, but soon, people will start paying attention, once again, to the current state of the economy, unemployment, and the debt.
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Maybe you can answer this, with some experience to the region. If we have been hunting Bin Laden all this time, him fleeing Afghanistan into Pakistan, and we supposedly have been working with the Pakistani Government on trying to locate his hole in the side of a mountain, how is it he's killed within this apparent massive complex/mansion, deep in the heart of Islamabad, downtown central Pakistan? Was their Government that blinded to his whereabouts.........or that helpful to him?
I think it is very possible that they were unaware. First, as I understand there is no way to effectively secure the entire border region, so coming through the mountainous route covered/disguised was probably no problem at all.
Then, in the neighborhood - the houses of the affluent, whether Pakistan or Jordan or Saudi or Iran are always completely walled off. The reason being so the women can work/relax in their gardens uncovered. If they have a pool, the women can swim. Etc. We have neighbors living like that - they live in fortresses. What I saw of the pictures of this house, it was the same idea. Then, on top of that, there will be guest areas of the house where guests can sit and socialize... and then there are family areas where uncovered women can hang out unseen. No guest will ever enter those areas. So, IMO, it is entirely reasonable to think that he could have been hanging out there and no one ever knew. Although I would suspect that a fairly large group had to have been in on it. But the government? Not necessarily.
see, that's why I needed to ask you, personally about this. I had no idea the idea behind the high walls of affluent neighborhoods helping to shelter the women, and families, away from any view, outside of invited guests. Thanks 8)
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see, that's why I needed to ask you, personally about this. I had no idea the idea behind the high walls of affluent neighborhoods helping to shelter the women, and families, away from any view, outside of invited guests. Thanks 8)
Here's a diagram of the compound:
(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/352/cache/osama-bin-laden-dead-hideout-complex_35237_600x450.jpg)
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40 Incredibly Stupid Facebook Reactions to Osama's Death
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/40-incredibly-dumb-facebook-reactions-to-osama-bin (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/40-incredibly-dumb-facebook-reactions-to-osama-bin)
My personal fav: "I bet Osama is pissed he came out of hiding to watch the Royal Wedding."
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hey Henny....what is your perspective on the quick burial at sea?
whats the vibe on the street in the arab world...or does it even really matter?
do you think it was best from Obama's point of view to bring a quick closure?
sure it fuels conspiracy but wouldn't a big state funeral somewhere had been worse?
what are your thoughts on the quick burial at sea?
and what if anything would you have done differently concerning body disposal?
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hey Henny....what is your perspective on the quick burial at sea?
whats the vibe on the street in the arab world...or does it even really matter?
do you think it was best from Obama's point of view to bring a quick closure?
sure it fuels conspiracy but wouldn't a big state funeral somewhere had been worse?
what are your thoughts on the quick burial at sea?
and what if anything would you have done differently concerning body disposal?
The vibe on the Arab street is complete denial and disbelief, people pissed off because news they consider much more important (Syria, Yemen, Libya) is being ignored even on Jazeera Arabic station. And there are some people who are mourning, sorry to say.
I personally am uncomfortable with it, although I consent that the idea that his burial place becoming a shrine was a good reason to do it. Although it is important to note that Sunni Muslims do not make saints of their dead or revere them - it would be very much a Shia thing.
The thing is, all of us are waiting for some proof. A picture that isn't doctored. Something. Even though I 100% believe it happened, I still want to see something. I think the whole world does. Burial at sea, regardless of the good reasons behind it, fueled the idea that it was faked.
Overwhelmingly, too, Muslim scholars are coming out and saying that while a burial at sea is permissable under extraordinary circumstances, this was not one of those circumstances. A Muslim should be buried with their head point to Mecca.
So if it were my call, I would have handed the body over to a friendly Muslim country - preferably Saudi - to bury the body in secrecy and then assure the Muslim world that it was handled with proper respect.
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So if it were my call, I would have handed the body over to a friendly Muslim country - preferably Saudi - to bury the body in secrecy and then assure the Muslim world that it was handled with proper respect.
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According to the news, they did offer the body to the Saudis,and they did not want it.
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According to the news
yeah sure you mean one of the news people under the control of the WH? I moron like you could call themselves a newsman!
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So if it were my call, I would have handed the body over to a friendly Muslim country - preferably Saudi - to bury the body in secrecy and then assure the Muslim world that it was handled with proper respect.
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According to the news, they did offer the body to the Saudis,and they did not want it.
In that case, I don't know what other country could take the responsibility and not be accused of messing it up. So burial at sea was the only viable choice.
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All the information about this mission comes from the people who carried it out. So all the news comes from them as well.
I fail to see why they should lie about something like this. If they did, the truth would come out eventually.
If you are going to say that nothing that the news reports is true, then why even believe that the whole story was false?
It seems logical to me to have a burial at sea, particularly if the Saudis would not take OBL.
As I understand it, burial in the ground and burial at sea are the only two options given in the Koran, or at least given by custom.
Burning bodies and leaving them for the vultures are practices of Hindis and Farsis, both of whom are infidels.
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From the standpoint of the victim, torture is the same thing as being killed at the moment is is happening.
Bin Laden would surely rather have been killed than tortured.
From the standpoint of US interests, killing Bin Laden was the bets option by far.
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Burning bodies and leaving them for the vultures are practices of Hindis and Farsis, both of whom are infidels.
Isn't everyone thats not a Muzzie an infidel?
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Actually, to Sunni fundamentalists, everyone who is not a Sunni fundamentalist is an infidel.
Note that the treatment of the dead is a sensitive thing for all cultures. The Americans were especially repulsed by the way the Comanches, the Hurons, and some of the other tribes defiled those they killed. The US Civil War is full of atrocities, but the worst were done to Black Union soldiers by the more lawless Confederate bands, like Forrest, Quantrill and Bloody Bill Anderson.
To dispose of a body with fire or vultures would be so disgusting that it would repulse even Muslims that did not like Bin Laden.
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The US Civil War is full of atrocities
XO speaking of the Civil War....I saw a show this past weekend on CSPAN where
a professor said most of...the over half a million soldiers that died in the civil war
died of diarrhea and disease, not combat....that kind of number surprised me.
I knew it was high....but not over 250,000 high! If they woulda just had some
Imodium! Course 100 years from now they'll be saying almost the exact same
kind of stuff 'bout us.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Lectures-in-History-Civil-War-Medicine/10737421158-1/ (http://www.c-span.org/Events/Lectures-in-History-Civil-War-Medicine/10737421158-1/)
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This is true, disease killed huge numbers of troops in the Civil War. A majority of the soldiers were farm boys who lived in isolation, and when they were all mixed up with other farm boys and city boys, many of them immigrants, everyone swapped germs and they died by the thousands. The years during the Civil War were unusually cold ones, and a lot of soldiers froze to death as well.
PBS recently reran Ken Burn's Civil War documentary,and the American Experience series also showed some excellent bios of both Grant and Lee.
One of my 2nd great grandfathers was a surgeon with an Illinois regiment, another was a surgeon with John Bell Hood's Texas Brigade. My father was born in 1902 in North Texas, he said that there was always a bunch of old whiskerandos hanging out and whittling and trading war stories at the hardware store. My father heard a number of these when he was young, and asked his grandfather (the one with the Texas Brigade) about the war, and the old man said, "Son, I have spent the last 45 years trying to forget that war, and you don't want to hear what i have had to see."
He spent the war amputating arms and legs and trying to keep the wounded from dying. The Union grandfather moved to Texas after the war because of some land he had inherited, but he died before my father could talk.
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Rofl, a drive-by onefer for your amusement...
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/Osama_Killed_Credit20110502115511.jpg)
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Greatness SIRS!
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Hehe....thanks C. I figure if H is going to take some gratuitous shots at Bush, I figure what's good for the goose..... ;)
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Well, they don't refer to JSOC as Murder Incorporated for nothing. Bin Laden had zero chance of being captured. Once killed they no other place to but him but in the ocean. While it may fuel conspiracy theories anything and everything fuels conspiracy theories in the middle east. Let them think what they want just don't give them a real burial plot to go to.
As for a photograph? He was shot above the left eye. One third of his skull was probably blown off. Imagine what kind of reaction that image would fuel among some muslims? Remember the reaction to other pictures of our handy work? That's why no photo, for right now anyway.
BSB
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Well, they don't refer to JSOC as Murder Incorporated for nothing. Bin Laden had zero chance of being captured. Once killed they no other place to but him but in the ocean. While it may fuel conspiracy theories anything and everything fuels conspiracy theories in the middle east. Let them think what they want just don't give them a real burial plot to go to.
As for a photograph? He was shot above the left eye. One third of his skull was probably blown off. Imagine what kind of reaction that image would fuel among some muslims? Remember the reaction to other pictures of our handy work? That's why no photo, for right now anyway.
BSB
They had other options besides the sea. As in bring his sorry ass back to some military base and put it in storage for proof or whatever.
And once and for all, fuck the Muslins. Last time I checked the Muslins weren't too worried about my feelings with regards to their many beheadings. Oh and what are we going to do make them madder than they already are and does that mean they are going to hurt us like they haven't already...geez.
http://www.realogrish.com/beheading-videos/2516-very-graphic-23-beheading-videos-part.html (http://www.realogrish.com/beheading-videos/2516-very-graphic-23-beheading-videos-part.html)
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As for a photograph? He was shot above the left eye. One third of his skull was probably blown off. Imagine what kind of reaction that image would fuel among some muslims? Remember the reaction to other pictures of our handy work? That's why no photo, for right now anyway.
BSB
We've seen FAR worse photos....a certain decapitation comes to mind, as well as burned bodies hanging high. I think we can let this one be shown. Be a nice wake up call to those who still want to kill Americans, and don't need any provocation to do so
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All the information about this mission comes from the people who carried it out. So all the news comes from them as well.
I fail to see why they should lie about something like this. If they did, the truth would come out eventually.
If you are going to say that nothing that the news reports is true, then why even believe that the whole story was false?
It seems logical to me to have a burial at sea, particularly if the Saudis would not take OBL.
As I understand it, burial in the ground and burial at sea are the only two options given in the Koran, or at least given by custom.
Burning bodies and leaving them for the vultures are practices of Hindis and Farsis, both of whom are infidels.
I don't think they're lying. But I am shocked by the attitudes of people who do. They say he's been dead for years... but come on! What president would let this kind of political capital pass? If it happened during Bush's term, he would have announced it with pride and rightly so. That alone, IMO, deflates the whole conspiracy thing.
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Burning bodies and leaving them for the vultures are practices of Hindis and Farsis, both of whom are infidels.
Isn't everyone thats not a Muzzie an infidel?
No - only to the fundamentalist. For mainstream, infidels are people who aren't either Muslim, Christian or Jew ("People of the Book").
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Thank you, Henny.
In a month or two, the entire story will be published,and of course, the usual conspiracy-loving clowns will make up their own stories.
The essence swill still be that the CIA planned the mission, Obama approved it and the Seals carried it out without a hitch.
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100% agreed...
...and if this had happened under's Bush's watch, I'd opine there'd be a far different "conclusion", from the same folks currently praising Obama right now ;)
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Sirs: "I think we can let this one be shown."
This is above your pay grade, Sirs.
BSB
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100% agreed...
...and if this had happened under's Bush's watch, I'd opine there'd be a far different "conclusion", from the same folks currently praising Obama right now ;)
Sirs, in all fairness, plenty on the right are coming to those far different conclusions about Obama and what happened here. Typical and expected partisan tit-for-tat.
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And you'll notice, I'm not one of them. Notice also BSB's obligatory need to denigrate the debate with his own personal tat minus the tit (not to be taken personally or literally, I'm sure you're aware)
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Hehe....thanks C. I figure if H is going to take some gratuitous shots at Bush, I figure what's good for the goose..... ;)
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/110503%20foreignpolicy%20RGB20110503083129.jpg)
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And you'll notice, I'm not one of them.
Indeed. I meant in the world, generally - not the group. ;D
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I figured 8)
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It is just plain stupid to continuously carp about "what would they have said if Bush were the president?'
He isn't, and I donlt give a damn and neither does anyone except sirs, who is obsessed.
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Naaaaa, the only thing I'm "obsessed" with is calling out and highlighting hypocrites
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Naaaaa, the only thing I'm "obsessed" with is calling out and highlighting hypocrites
Like for instance our dear x-speaker;
Here's Nancy Pelosi from a press conference on September 7, 2006:
Even if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done . . . is done. And even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer.
And here's Nancy Pelosi yesterday:
The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. . . . I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. . . . [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic. . . .
This devastating then-and-now comparison comes to us courtesy of John Hideraker of Power Line. It underscores the degree to which partisanship can ravage people's fair-mindedness and, in the process, make them look like fools and hacks. Such things aren't uncommon in politics, but what is rare is to see such intellectual dishonesty proven so conclusively.
The Intellectual Dishonesty of Nancy Pelosi (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/05/03/intellectual-dishonesty-of-na%0Ancy-pelosi/)
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wow SIRS.....that is great work.
clear as day the double-speak
it's just nice to see that kind crap exposed!
thank you!
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Pretty transparent, isn't it. And you're welcome 8)
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Killing Bin Laden is a triumph because he committed an act of war against innocent American citizens and was killed in another act of war.
Perhaps it makes us safer, perhaps not. Being as there are not two worlds (one with a Bin Laden, another Bin Laden-free) to compare, we shall never know.
Mostly your post simply expresses the usual Pelosi hatred that turns you on, but makes most Americans yawn.
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Actually quite the contrary. It would seem rabid apologietic leftists, like yourself, are doing the yawning, in the face of acute duplicity & hypocrisy.
And news flash, I don't "hate" Pelosi or Obama. I tolerate them. The "turning on", is again in highlighting their transparent hypocrisy, and those who give it a pass
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What do you mean., quite the contrary?
Are you telling me that I have no right to tell you that you are a crashing bore?
Go speak some volumes, sirs.
But please, speak them elsewhere.
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What do you mean., quite the contrary?
Meaning, that its the mass Americans that actually care about the hypocrisy coming out of DC, and you apologetic leftists that merely yawn at it, when its one of your own
Are you telling me that I have no right to tell you that you are a crashing bore?
Not even remotely, which goes towards your acute inability to grasp the point being made. Here's a hint, it has squat to do with your giving an opinion, on anything or anyone. You'd think a professor of language would have figured that one out. Apparently not
Go speak some volumes, sirs. But please, speak them elsewhere.
You wish
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If you are going to speak volumes, please clean up after yourself.
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For a supposed language professor, not only do you fail to understand points of view being presented, you will frequently make no sense in trying to spew your own opinion. Case in point, with that last posting
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Well, they don't refer to JSOC as Murder Incorporated for nothing. Bin Laden had zero chance of being captured. Once killed they no other place to but him but in the ocean. While it may fuel conspiracy theories anything and everything fuels conspiracy theories in the middle east. Let them think what they want just don't give them a real burial plot to go to.
As for a photograph? He was shot above the left eye. One third of his skull was probably blown off. Imagine what kind of reaction that image would fuel among some muslims? Remember the reaction to other pictures of our handy work? That's why no photo, for right now anyway.
BSB
Do you think the SEALS would be useing pistols or other wepons?
The condition of the body might make a diffrence when the photo comes out , but it probly makes no diffrence to Osama.
I am surprised that Osama was not rigged with more wepons , pistols, grenades ,suicide belt, etc.. Could he possibly have not expected such a raid to eventually happen?
I suppose he considered himself safe , but I am quite surprised at this.
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Thank you, Henny.
In a month or two, the entire story will be published,and of course, the usual conspiracy-loving clowns will make up their own stories.
The essence swill still be that the CIA planned the mission, Obama approved it and the Seals carried it out without a hitch.
Coming soon to a theater near you!
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I have to suppose that the Government of Packistan understood what had happened very shortly after the event.
Probly immediately.
But it was President Obama that broke the news after sitting on the info several days.
Why didn't the Packistanis Government , press or public break this story?
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Do you think the SEALS would be useing pistols or other weapons?
I'd opine that they entered having their 9MM's holstered, and entered with their assault rifles up. Be it Mp5's or M4's, they're small enough for close quarters combat, but with plenty of firepower to set down any group of guards unfortunate enough to try and raise their weapons
The condition of the body might make a diffrence when the photo comes out , but it probly makes no diffrence to Osama.
And there in lies the fuel to further conspiracy theories, by not releasing anything
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Plane: "Do you think the SEALS would be useing pistols or other wepons?"
As Sirs pointed out they'd have both sidearms and long guns, plus, plus, plus. One "plus" could be stun grenades. It looks like one guy might have been killed by that sort of thing in the pics CU4 put up.
SEALS are given a lot of latitude when it comes to their primary weapons. Some guys might prefer something in 7.62 vs 5.56 or 9mm. However, if the commander requests weapon integrity across the board then they have to carry the same primary weapon. Reasons for that kind of a request would vary from going in "clean", to everybody carrying the same ammo so that if you go down, for example, I can use your stuff. But whatever they carry they know how to use big time. These guys can really shoot.
BSB
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Hehe....thanks C. I figure if H is going to take some gratuitous shots at Bush, I figure what's good for the goose..... ;)
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz050511dAPR20110505014518.jpg)
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(http://media.townhall.com/townhall/car/b/bg050411dapr20110504054522.jpg)
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Given the choice between celebrating a good economy, lower gas prices & lower unemployment stats or UBL's death I'll take the good economy any day.
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Seems rather stupid to reveal capturing the treasure trove of information obtained during the execution. Loose lips sink ships, DUMB!
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It would be obvious to all but the truly mentally challenged that bin Laden's residence would have a lot of information and equally obvious that the CIA would not take it with them
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It would be obvious to all but the truly mentally challenged that bin Laden's residence would have a lot of information and equally obvious that the CIA would not take it with them
Now it's OBVIOUS, but if they had kept their mouths shut people would wonder. They (the terrorists) aren't wondering now. Plus not all these guys are as smart as you and BSB.
Do you think it was obvious that the Pakistani government knew that UBL was hiding in their country?