DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on September 08, 2008, 11:35:08 AM
-
Now the government is taking over Sally Mae and Freddie Mac, previously private banking institutions. We, the taxpayers, will get to pay for this, or more specifically, the Chinese will lend more money for this from the profits they made from $3 a day slave labor, and we will get to pay it off plus interest, along with the stupid Iraq War and the entire planeload of cash that got heisted shortly after Baghdad fell.
The GOP mandate: Borrow and squander, borrow and squander as usual, plus Now Improved with Lemon Socialism!
-
Now the government is taking over Sally Mae and Freddie Mac, previously private banking institutions. We, the taxpayers, will get to pay for this, or more specifically, the Chinese will lend more money for this from the profits they made from $3 a day slave labor, and we will get to pay it off plus interest, along with the stupid Iraq War and the entire planeload of cash that got heisted shortly after Baghdad fell.
The GOP mandate: Borrow and squander, borrow and squander as usual, plus Now Improved with Lemon Socialism!
I'm sure that OBama supports this but I know McCain would not do this if he were president.
Hey old man do you snore like a freight-train?
-
I'm sure that OBama supports this but I know McCain would not do this if he were president.
Actually, this move is supported by McCain.
Hey old man do you snore like a freight-train?
Totally uncalled for comment.
-
Hey old man do you snore like a freight-train?
Totally uncalled for comment.
===========================================
I can agree with that. I am discreetly avoiding describing the fate of whatever glop Kramer ate for lunch yesterday because I detest irrelevance.
If I did describe it, I am sure I would use better similes than tired old clichés like "snoring like a freight train".
The fact remains that the takeover (by the GOP administration) of private mortgage banks is an example of what is called 'lemon socialism', meaning that failing private enterprises are driven into the ground by fatcat manipulators, then the 'lemon' enterprise is turned over to the government so the taxpayers can be hit with the costs of errors they never had anything to do with.
As a rule, the news of the buyout is passed along in advance to speculators in the govt's good graces, so they can rake in the boost in the stock price after the news goes out. We shall see who may have benefitted, perhaps, though they have likely covered their trail pretty well.
-
Unintentionally sent twice, sorry
-
I can agree with that. I am discreetly avoiding describing the fate of whatever glop Kramer ate for lunch yesterday because I detest irrelevance.
If I did describe it, I am sure I would use better similes than tired old clichés like "snoring like a freight train".
And yet, the entire contents of this post was an unsuccessfully veiled insult.
-
I'm sure that OBama supports this but I know McCain would not do this if he were president.
Actually, this move is supported by McCain.
Hey old man do you snore like a freight-train?
Totally uncalled for comment.
Read my comments closer. He would not do this if he were president. In my opinion.
-
Read my comments closer. He would not do this if he were president. In my opinion.
================================
Juniorbush is supposedly far to the right of McCain.
Perhaps McCain or Obama would have used sufficient oversight to prevent the failure of Freddie and Fanny. But at this stage, if they are not rescued in some way, the economy could collapse.
Failure to act for the common good is the main reason why Herbert Hoover's presidency is generally regarded as a flop.
At this stage, McCain would have little choice but to go along.
Except of course, in your opinion.
There is deep weirdness in your opinion, as we all know.
-
Read my comments closer. He would not do this if he were president. In my opinion.
SCHIEFFER: Both the Post and The New York Times report that the administration is preparing to put Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two guarantors of mortgages, in some sort of a conservorship***(as spoken). Basically what they?re going to do is dismiss the officers, the government will take over. There?s no way you can say this is not going to cost the taxpayers billions of dollars. Do you think this is a good idea, Senator McCain?
Sen. McCAIN: I think it has to be done, Bob. I think that we?ve got to keep people in their homes. There?s got to be restructuring, there?s got to be reorganization and there?s got to be some confidence that we?ve stopped this downward spiral. It?s hard, it?s tough, but it?s also the classic example of why we need change in Washington. It?s an example of cronyism, special interest, lobbyists, a quasi-governmental organization where the executives were making hundreds of?hundred and some million dollars a year while things were going downhill, going to hell in a handbasket. This is?this is the kind of cronyism and corruption that has made people so justifiably angered. I did have a long conversation with Secretary Paulson, a man I admire and respect, and he did say that when the housing market starts back up?and it will, it will in America?then the taxpayers are going to be the first to be paid off. They?re the ones that are going to be reimbursed when the values of the homes start?hit bottom and start back up and they start getting more money back in. And that has to be a vital part of it. And again, this is a system that cries out for reform.
SCHIEFFER: You?re talking about?they?re going to have some more regulation. Is that what you?re saying? More control?
Sen. McCAIN: More regulation, more oversight, more transparency, more of everything. And frankly, a dramatic reduction in what they do. You know, they are originally designed to provide a chance for middle income people to have an affordable home loan mortgage, and it grew into this sprawling, massive bureaucracy rife with corruption, cronyism, special interests, lobbyists and a relationship with Congress. Congress passed these laws that allowed these massive loopholes to be there. And so obviously, it?s got not only to be fixed, but it?s a system. It?s an example and a symptom of a system where we?re so close to the special interests that somehow?in Washington, we?re so close that somehow the average American is totally disregarded.
-
There is deep weirdness in your opinion, as we all know.
Is this comment really a necessary part of your post?
-
Read my comments closer. He would not do this if he were president. In my opinion.
================================
Juniorbush is supposedly far to the right of McCain.
Perhaps McCain or Obama would have used sufficient oversight to prevent the failure of Freddie and Fanny. But at this stage, if they are not rescued in some way, the economy could collapse.
Failure to act for the common good is the main reason why Herbert Hoover's presidency is generally regarded as a flop.
At this stage, McCain would have little choice but to go along.
Except of course, in your opinion.
There is deep weirdness in your opinion, as we all know.
If you pay attention to McCain's comments along the campaign trail he said he is for lower taxes and less spending. I have to take from that that he would not be for saddling us with trillions of dept to bale out these companies. I'm dead against corporate welfare, now the Detroit 3 are looking for handouts. This could be the beginning of you and me agreeing on something.
-
Read my comments closer. He would not do this if he were president. In my opinion.
================================
Juniorbush is supposedly far to the right of McCain.
Perhaps McCain or Obama would have used sufficient oversight to prevent the failure of Freddie and Fanny. But at this stage, if they are not rescued in some way, the economy could collapse.
Failure to act for the common good is the main reason why Herbert Hoover's presidency is generally regarded as a flop.
At this stage, McCain would have little choice but to go along.
Except of course, in your opinion.
There is deep weirdness in your opinion, as we all know.
If you pay attention to McCain's comments along the campaign trail he said he is for lower taxes and less spending. I have to take from that that he would not be for saddling us with trillions of dept to bale out these companies. I'm dead against corporate welfare, now the Detroit 3 are looking for handouts. This could be the beginning of you and me agreeing on something.
That would be deeply weird
-
When it was discovered that the manufacturing plant that made the tainted dog food in china did not follow established quality control protocol, the manager of the plant was shot.
Perhaps a lesson can be learned from this in regards to the freddie and fanny saga.
-
When it was discovered that the manufacturing plant that made the tainted dog food in china did not follow established quality control protocol, the manager of the plant was shot.
Perhaps a lesson can be learned from this in regards to the freddie and fanny saga.
a nice twist would be to make them eat tainted dog food
-
When it was discovered that the manufacturing plant that made the tainted dog food in china did not follow established quality control protocol, the manager of the plant was shot.
Perhaps a lesson can be learned from this in regards to the freddie and fanny saga.
a nice twist would be to make them eat tainted dog food
===========================================================
Were it not for the Constitution, I would favor having them eat the dogfood. But keep in mind that most of those who drove Freddie and Fannie into the ground are Republicans. Bankers tend to be Republican, as do real estate developers and mortgage brokers. Capital punishment in the US for a non-fatal crime could take 30 years to enforce.
I am reasonably certain thaqt forcing anyone to eat tainted dogfood would come under the Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment. It s certainly not usual, and unlikely to be considered humane, either.
Making them do "The Perp Walk" a la Jack Abramson might be all that is really required.
-
When it was discovered that the manufacturing plant that made the tainted dog food in china did not follow established quality control protocol, the manager of the plant was shot.
Perhaps a lesson can be learned from this in regards to the freddie and fanny saga.
a nice twist would be to make them eat tainted dog food
===========================================================
Were it not for the Constitution, I would favor having them eat the dogfood. But keep in mind that most of those who drove Freddie and Fannie into the ground are Republicans. Bankers tend to be Republican, as do real estate developers and mortgage brokers. Capital punishment in the US for a non-fatal crime could take 30 years to enforce.
I am reasonably certain thaqt forcing anyone to eat tainted dogfood would come under the Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment. It s certainly not usual, and unlikely to be considered humane, either.
Making them do "The Perp Walk" a la Jack Abramson might be all that is really required.
I hate to do this to you but if you really want that your best bet is voting for McCain/Palin because Palin has gone after crooks and she is the only person between Obama, Biden & McCain that has tackled corruption. And what is refreshing is she did it to Republican Party people. You really need to open your mind to Palin. She is the real deal.
-
But keep in mind that most of those who drove Freddie and Fannie into the ground are Republicans. Bankers tend to be Republican, as do real estate developers and mortgage brokers.
Many executives at Fannie and Freddie took "leaves of absence" (especially from the upper levels) from their jobs during the Clinton Administration to work at various executive departments under Clinton.
Do you really believe that Bill was that chummy with Republicans?
-
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/12/nation/na-johnson12 (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/12/nation/na-johnson12)
-
And what is refreshing is she did it to Republican Party people. You really need to open your mind to Palin. She is the real deal.
=====================================
Observe that she is NO LONGER ending corruption to any Republicans or anyone else. There is doubtless jubilation, merriment and mirth galore in Juneau now that she has turned her eyes away from them, just as the ruckus at the Gates of Mordor turned Sauron's Eye away from Frodo and Sam.
She is now being peddled as a product that will supposedly prosecute corruption. But the VP has no power to do this. The VP can only vote to break a tie in the Senate. That would be her only political power. She cannot do diddly-squal as VP to end corruption, anywhere.
Even if she tried to denounce some Abramoff in the good graces of, say, Mitch McConnell, who likes such creatures, she would be taken aside and asked if she would prefer a chance at the presidency or a chance to be the first female C. Danforth Quayle, or even the next female Spiro T Agnew.
It is unlikely that there will be a tie in the Senate, since it is most likely that the Democrats will have a clear majority in the Senate.
This means that Palin will have only whatever power McCain bestows upon her. These are nebulous at best.
Can you name the powers that Juniorbush has bestowed on his good buddy, Dick Cheney?
-
And what is refreshing is she did it to Republican Party people. You really need to open your mind to Palin. She is the real deal.
=====================================
Observe that she is NO LONGER ending corruption to any Republicans or anyone else. There is doubtless jubilation, merriment and mirth galore in Juneau now that she has turned her eyes away from them, just as the ruckus at the Gates of Mordor turned Sauron's Eye away from Frodo and Sam.
She is now being peddled as a product that will supposedly prosecute corruption. But the VP has no power to do this. The VP can only vote to break a tie in the Senate. That would be her only political power. She cannot do diddly-squal as VP to end corruption, anywhere.
Even if she tried to denounce some Abramoff in the good graces of, say, Mitch McConnell, who likes such creatures, she would be taken aside and asked if she would prefer a chance at the presidency or a chance to be the first female C. Danforth Quayle, or even the next female Spiro T Agnew.
It is unlikely that there will be a tie in the Senate, since it is most likely that the Democrats will have a clear majority in the Senate.
This means that Palin will have only whatever power McCain bestows upon her. These are nebulous at best.
Can you name the powers that Juniorbush has bestowed on his good buddy, Dick Cheney?
On my glasshoppa you have to look at the big picture. VP is a stepping stone.
-
Yeah, sure.
Palin has no agenda. She is a mere neophyte hireling. And already they have you worshipping her, even as in up Juneau they are jubilant that their corruption will no longer be exposed by her.
The hireling of a failed and bungling party famous for nominating stubborn ignoramuses and sly thieves now flailing about in helpless desperation, praying that racism and deceptive advertising will pluck them from the abyss into which any just fate would have them plunge.
-
Yeah, sure.
Palin has no agenda. She is a mere neophyte hireling. And already they have you worshipping her, even as in up Juneau they are jubilant that their corruption will no longer be exposed by her.
The hireling of a failed and bungling party famous for nominating stubborn ignoramuses and sly thieves now flailing about in helpless desperation, praying that racism and deceptive advertising will pluck them from the abyss into which any just fate would have them plunge.
It appears to me that you are lost and beyond comprehending what normal Americans want in our elected leaders. Palin fits the mold to a tee and sadly it's taken this long for someone (John McCain) to understand and recognize it. I believe McCain is in touch with the American people and Obama is in touch with YOU. You and Obama should touch each other on your private parts so you can have a huge circle jerk orgasm. Then you will feel really good and frankly you might lose some of the stress you suffer from.
-
You and Obama should touch each other on your private parts so you can have a huge circle jerk orgasm. Then you will feel really good and frankly you might lose some of the stress you suffer from.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Another flaming bag of poo.
I think BT should ban you again for this.
-
When it was discovered that the manufacturing plant that made the tainted dog food in china did not follow established quality control protocol, the manager of the plant was shot.
Perhaps a lesson can be learned from this in regards to the freddie and fanny saga.
a nice twist would be to make them eat tainted dog food
===========================================================
Were it not for the Constitution, I would favor having them eat the dogfood. But keep in mind that most of those who drove Freddie and Fannie into the ground are Republicans. Bankers tend to be Republican, as do real estate developers and mortgage brokers. Capital punishment in the US for a non-fatal crime could take 30 years to enforce.
I am reasonably certain thaqt forcing anyone to eat tainted dogfood would come under the Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment. It s certainly not usual, and unlikely to be considered humane, either.
Making them do "The Perp Walk" a la Jack Abramson might be all that is really required.
Can we find out if they were Republicans?
It wouoldn't be strange if a lot of them were Democrats, Fannie was after all, one of FDR's creations.
-
Can we find out if they were Republicans?
It wouldn't be strange if a lot of them were Democrats, Fannie was after all, one of FDR's creations
===============================================
I imagine that all of the FDR appointees have retired by now. Anyone that was 25 in 1945 would be 88 or 89 by now.
I would imagine that you could, with some effort, discover the political orientation of the current heads of Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae.
Of course, people often do not base their decisions on their political orientation alone. It is safe to say that neither of these was well-run, or they would not have been left holding the bag as they are now.
Both McCain and Obama said they supported the government takeover with some caveats, which is about the only thing either could say at this point. The situation could have been avoided by better control during the Juniorbush years. That is pretty clear.
This, of course means BIGGER GOVERNMENT. There is no chance that Obama or McCain have any chance of making the government smaller.
It grew under Reagan, it grew under Olebush, it grew immensely under Juniorbush. The growth rate was smaller under Jimmy Carter, when he instigated Zero-based budgeting, and grew somewhat less slowly under Clinton, who shrunk the Defense Dept.
Taking over failing organizations is called lemon socialism: the government gets the business, sort of, and then the public really gets the business, as in the obligation to rescue the business.
The Chrysler bailout seems to have been the most successful bailout to date.
-
Can we find out if they were Republicans?
It wouldn't be strange if a lot of them were Democrats, Fannie was after all, one of FDR's creations
===============================================
I imagine that all of the FDR appointees have retired by now. Anyone that was 25 in 1945 would be 88 or 89 by now.
I would imagine that you could, with some effort, discover the political orientation of the current heads of Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae.
Of course, people often do not base their decisions on their political orientation alone. It is safe to say that neither of these was well-run, or they would not have been left holding the bag as they are now.
Both McCain and Obama said they supported the government takeover with some caveats, which is about the only thing either could say at this point. The situation could have been avoided by better control during the Juniorbush years. That is pretty clear.
This, of course means BIGGER GOVERNMENT. There is no chance that Obama or McCain have any chance of making the government smaller.
It grew under Reagan, it grew under Olebush, it grew immensely under Juniorbush. The growth rate was smaller under Jimmy Carter, when he instigated Zero-based budgeting, and grew somewhat less slowly under Clinton, who shrunk the Defense Dept.
Taking over failing organizations is called lemon socialism: the government gets the business, sort of, and then the public really gets the business, as in the obligation to rescue the business.
The Chrysler bailout seems to have been the most successful bailout to date.
[/quoote]
I don't actually care if they are Democrats , the way they are leaveing under a cloud the worst theing they could do to a party would be to endorse it.
There might have been something that the Government could have done to restrain the lending , perhaps an executive order or a greater emphasis on the rules as they stand, but this would have been a very unpopular thing to do.
Since Davy Crocket and since Willian Jennings Brian , the conflict between hard money and soft money has been a constant struggle with balance very hard to find , Bush seems tohave presided over a soft money debacle here but would a hard money policy have been better?
More people are buying homes than ever before , home ownership being considered desireable on all sides Bush ought to brag about this result of his soft money policy , if we can really call it his. But the greatest number of Forclosures happening now is not a co-incidence it was a risk we should have forseen , but irrational exuberance has caught us again.
Is Barak Obama or McCain a hard money advocate?
-
This, of course means BIGGER GOVERNMENT. There is no chance that Obama or McCain have any chance of making the government smaller. It grew under Reagan, it grew under Olebush, it grew immensely under Juniorbush. The growth rate was smaller under Jimmy Carter, when he instigated Zero-based budgeting, and grew somewhat less slowly under Clinton, who shrunk the Defense Dept.
The goal then is which candidate will grow the government slower, while not damaging our Defensive ability. In that regards, it's pretty "obvious" which one
-
Now the government is taking over Sally Mae and Freddie Mac, previously private banking institutions. We, the taxpayers, will get to pay for this, or more specifically, the Chinese will lend more money for this from the profits they made from $3 a day slave labor, and we will get to pay it off plus interest, along with the stupid Iraq War and the entire planeload of cash that got heisted shortly after Baghdad fell.
The GOP mandate: Borrow and squander, borrow and squander as usual, plus Now Improved with Lemon Socialism!
I'm sure that OBama supports this but I know McCain would not do this if he were president.
Hey old man do you snore like a freight-train?
Who is this Kramer? He reminds me of one of my bullies in the classroom ...geezz dude grow up! ::)
-
The goal then is which candidate will grow the government slower, while not damaging our Defensive ability. In that regards, it's pretty "obvious" which one
----------------------------------
That would be the Democrats. Government grew at a slowert pace duing the Clinton admnistration than durng the Juniorbush years. The annual deficit came close to becoming a surplus.
-
The goal then is which candidate will grow the government slower, while not damaging our Defensive ability. In that regards, it's pretty "obvious" which one
----------------------------------
That would be the Democrats.
ROFL......apparently you haven't been listening to the top of your Democratic ticket (I can't help but lagh hystierically, this coming from one of the key supporters in growing government, the calling card of the Socialist agenda. Hell, if your desire is to see Government growing, according to you, you need to vote GOP :D )
-
Check out the Juniorbush budget for any year and compare it with any year of the Clinton budget.
Juniorbush made the government grow MUCH more. Bigger payroll, more expenses.
-
I have an even better idea, compare the budgets PROPOSED by each President, vs what got passed thru Congress, and sent back.
But....lol.....as I said, if big overnment is what socialists are looking for then "obviously" McCain is your man ;)
-
I have an even better idea, compare the budgets PROPOSED by each President, vs what got passed thru Congress, and sent back.
=============================================
How is that a better idea? Results are what count.
-
It's better because it demonstrates precisely which president actually was pushing for smaller government, vs the congress that twisted it to their liking, and sent it back.
-
Juniorbush made the government grow MUCH more. Bigger payroll, more expenses.
Of course, when one side says that budget increases are actually "budget cuts" (because they didn't get the increase they WANTED) then the other side can claim that a bigger government is actually smaller (because it didn't grow as much as the other side WANTED).