Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism

[Universe Prince]

because the sleeping giant is stirring
you need to have faith in humanity

I do have faith in humanity. Just not in politicians.

[Kramer]

because the sleeping giant is stirring
you need to have faith in humanity

I do have faith in humanity. Just not in politicians.

you just broke the code --- we don't want politicians we want honest intelligent caring citizens that want to do the right thing. not crooks.. have faith you will see them come forth in 2010. Thank you Obama, Pelosi & Reid for that.

[Universe Prince]

we don't want politicians we want honest intelligent caring citizens that want to do the right thing. not crooks..

Many of the people who supported Obama said the same thing. But beyond that, the problem is expecting people to get involved in politics and not be politicians.

have faith you will see them come forth in 2010.

I do not. I expect to see what I have seen before. Politicians rising up the polls on rhetoric that sounds real good, and then ending up acting like 99.99% of all other politicians these days. I would like very much to be wrong, but I have yet to see any reason that I am.

[Kramer]

we don't want politicians we want honest intelligent caring citizens that want to do the right thing. not crooks..

Many of the people who supported Obama said the same thing. But beyond that, the problem is expecting people to get involved in politics and not be politicians.

have faith you will see them come forth in 2010.

I do not. I expect to see what I have seen before. Politicians rising up the polls on rhetoric that sounds real good, and then ending up acting like 99.99% of all other politicians these days. I would like very much to be wrong, but I have yet to see any reason that I am.

conservatives are different than liberals. In a good way.

[Universe Prince]

conservatives are different than liberals. In a good way.

As a libertarian, I have watched both conservative and liberal politicians all do the same sort of things. As I said before, the "Republican Revolution" was going to reshape the government and bring fiscal responsibility to the Congress, and that didn't happen. George W. Bush was going to make a stand for conservative values and smaller government. That didn't happen. The result of both was basically more spending, more power in the hands of government, and expanded government run social programs. So tell me, when I see these good conservatives of strong moral character who will do what pretty nearly all other conservative politicians before them have not done actually do these things, then I will believe it will happen, and not before.

[Kramer]

conservatives are different than liberals. In a good way.

As a libertarian, I have watched both conservative and liberal politicians all do the same sort of things. As I said before, the "Republican Revolution" was going to reshape the government and bring fiscal responsibility to the Congress, and that didn't happen. George W. Bush was going to make a stand for conservative values and smaller government. That didn't happen. The result of both was basically more spending, more power in the hands of government, and expanded government run social programs. So tell me, when I see these good conservatives of strong moral character who will do what pretty nearly all other conservative politicians before them have not done actually do these things, then I will believe it will happen, and not before.

do you not understand none of that matters now? it's a new ballgame TODAY. the sleeping giant is stirring. was the giant awake with bush - nope, was the giant awake on 9/11, barely. Obama gets credit for waking us up. with ACORN, Obama, socialism, marxism, rev wright, bill aiyers, chicago politics, van jones, fort hood, caimbridge police, stimulus 123, reid, pelosi, barney fag, fanny & freddie, DEPRESSION around the corner YOU CAN BET YOUR SWEET ASS THE GIANT IS AWAKING. NOV 2010 WILL BE A BLOODBATH!

[Universe Prince]

do you not understand none of that matters now? it's a new ballgame TODAY. the sleeping giant is stirring.

Given the opportunities the sleeping giant had to awaken in the past, from FDR on through GWB, I will, as I said before, believe it when I see it. I hope you are right, but I doubt it.

[Kramer]

do you not understand none of that matters now? it's a new ballgame TODAY. the sleeping giant is stirring.

Given the opportunities the sleeping giant had to awaken in the past, from FDR on through GWB, I will, as I said before, believe it when I see it. I hope you are right, but I doubt it.

how confident am I? all I can say is I wish the entire senate was up for re-election in 2010. the house sweep could be so sweet that obama might start looking pretty good for re-electionin 2012 -- ha ha just kidding. I would hope for impeachment in 2011.

[Rich]

>>As a libertarian, I have watched both conservative and liberal politicians all do the same sort of things.<<

As a libertarian you've wasted your vote on candidates who couldn't be elected dog catcher. Wouldn't it be more productive to work inside the Republican party to effect the changes you feel are nessessary rather than be nothing but a fringe candidate supporter?

Libertarians, I agree with much of their platform, are never going to be anything but a curiosity.

[Plane]

  Can the government have a higher turnover , especially in congress, and perhaps be more responsive to the people thereby?

  Not very likely that the congress will enact anything to diminish the advantage of incumbancy.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The sleeping giant is a drooling dolt if you are referring to the teabaggers.

[Universe Prince]

>>As a libertarian, I have watched both conservative and liberal politicians all do the same sort of things.<<

As a libertarian you've wasted your vote on candidates who couldn't be elected dog catcher. Wouldn't it be more productive to work inside the Republican party to effect the changes you feel are nessessary rather than be nothing but a fringe candidate supporter?

Libertarians, I agree with much of their platform, are never going to be anything but a curiosity.

I wouldn't be so sure, were I you. And you should not confuse the Libertarian Party with libertarians in general.

Work within the Republican Party? Is the Republican Party open to supporting libertarian ideas? The Republican Party took over Congress in the 1990s. They had a chance to show their smaller government standards. Did they shrink the government? No. When George W. Bush took office the Republican Party was basically in charge of the government. Did they shrink the government? Did they lessen regulations? Did they fight for individual liberty? No, no, and no. They helped grow government power and government intrusion.

Ron Paul has worked within the Republican Party for years. Where is his widespread support from party leadership? There is Jeff Flake, who is doing a good job though notably he too seems to lack significant support from party leadership. Unfortunately, I get to vote for neither one. There is the Republican Liberty Caucus, attempting to influence the Republican Party toward a more libertarian stance. And where is the Republican Party today? Same place it has been for the last few decades, paying lots of lip-service to libertarian ideas and working not at all to put any of them into practice.

I spend time in self-examination. I try to be honest with myself. I know a guy who doesn't eat meat not because he doesn't like it, but because he doesn't want to support the way animals are raised for meat. I have little to no problem with it. Yet I can understand the man's position. I don't want to support the way the Republican Party works. As best I can tell, it's separated from the Democratic Party in few ways and those separations are paper-thin. I've supported Republicans in the past who spoke long about individual liberty and fiscal responsibility within government and paring back the size and reach of government. And what did I get for that support? Republicans in office who neglected individual liberty, were fiscally irresponsible, and contributed to unabated growth of government. Part of the reason I consider myself libertarian and not conservative or Republican is because I've seen what the conservatives in the Republican Party do, and I cannot support it in good conscience.

Does that leave me on the sidelines, as you suggest? I think it does not. I'm the independent libertarian voter. I'm one of the folks the Republican Party needs to attract if it expects to reverse its decline. I've seen said a number of times the Democratic Party should stop taking African-American voters for granted. The Republican Party should stop taking libertarian voters for granted. A lot of those people at the Tea Parties are libertarian minded folks who are getting tired of the being taken for granted by the Republican Party. There are people within the Democratic Party who think they should be trying to pick up libertarian votes. So you may think someone like me has no power in the political realm, but people like me are getting more political attention. Yeah, it's gradual, and I doubt that 2010 will mark the dramatic swing to liberty within the Republican Party that Kramer wants to claim. But there are reasons to be optimistic about the long-term influence of libertarian ideas.

So you keep supporting the lesser of two evils, and I'll keep supporting the good ideas, and I'll have a clear conscience about it. In the short term, you may have the power, but in the long term, I believe we (small 'l' libertarians) will have the victory.

[Universe Prince]

The sleeping giant is a drooling dolt if you are referring to the teabaggers.

Xavier, you're a pig's ass.

[Amianthus]

As best I can tell, it's separated from the Democratic Party is few ways and those separations are paper-thin.

I've said for many, many years that the only difference between Democrats and Republicans is that they disagree in the order in which to take away our rights.

[Rich]

>>I wouldn't be so sure, were I you. And you should not confuse the Libertarian Party with libertarians in general.<<

Given the evidence I think I can be very sure. The evidence being local and national elections over the past say ... 75 years?

>>Work within the Republican Party? Is the Republican Party open to supporting libertarian ideas?<<

I believe so. In fact, wouldn't you agree that "Republicans" have more in common with Libertarians then not? Obviously Libertarians and Republican have a common enemy in the democrat party. I'm no longer a Republican because, for one thing, they no longer support some very liberatian ideas. I think the question for Libertarians is whether or not they are willing to compromise in order to get the majority of their views put into action by a party that can actually do it. Isn't 75 percent better than nothing? Isn't it worth keeping the statists out of power and keeping them from destroying the America you and I love?