Berkeley Vs. America, Again

[BT]

Geeze, one quote from Smedley Butler, a Marine Corps General, who knows first-hand in the real world what the USMC are all about, and everyone heads for the hills.  Just can't handle it.  I never knew fascists were so sensitive.  Either that or highly allergic to cold, hard facts.  Sorry, I'll stick to the nursery-rhyme fantasies from now on.  My bad.

Butler may have a point, then again i'm sure aids relief in africa has corporate undertones as well.

[Michael Tee]

I somehow don't think Butler was describing AIDS relief or any other similar humanitarian ventures.  The Marines didn't come to Cuba, Honduras or Nicaragua to heal the sick, they came to kill.  As Butler so unmistakeably points out.

[BT]

That is their job. To kill. Butler simply pointed out who they work for. Same as aids workers.

I doubt seriously that when Canada donates a shipload of wheat to a disaster area Canadian agribusiness protests much.

[Michael Tee]

I seem to be losing track of the point of this discussion.  There was some ludicrous statement made that the Marines are protecting the asses of Amerikkkan citizens.  The counter-argument was made that they are nothing more than the hired muscle of corporate bosses who want to rob, rape and plunder Third World countries, preferably in Central America or the Caribbean.  Protecting nobody's ass but their corporate employers' and their own.  They were then compared to AIDS relief workers, generally seen as benevolent and altruistic souls, when of course there is nothing altruistic or benevolent about them (the Marines) as they are actually a plague upon the earth.  A bunch of hired thugs and killers tasked with enforcing the will of Amerikkka's corporate owners as they go about their business of raping and plundering the Third World.  And here we are.

[Michael Tee]

<<Hard language and yet YOU SAY I have hard lanugage? A little of thje pot calling the kettle black it seems.>>

How the hell can you compare a threat to punch my  lights out and make me eat concrete with a quote from a Marine Corps general who was actually there and can tell you from first-hand experience what the USMC is really all about?  You've totally lost your sense of proportion.

<<Too bad. I was actually enjoying things again. It appears I have too thin of a skin to put up with this over a longish period of time. >>

Well, you got that right.  Too bad. 

<<You're an ass, I am afraid. Sad to say, but true.>>

Since when does disagreeing with you or failing to worship at the shrine of Amerikkka the Good and Benevolent constitute being an ass?  The person being an ass here is you.

<< Your muckraking of America is simply too much for this thin-skinned prof to handle. >>

Tough shit, Professor.  If you're an academic, you really should prepare yourself a little better for the rough-and-tumble of gloves-off debate.

<<You're filled with too much hatred and loathing toward America. >>

They've earned it.  I'm tired of making excuses for the bastards.

<<Difficult for me to swallow for long. I love this country and would die tomorrow defending it. Some of us are actually PROUD to be Americans.>>

Well, the better ones are actually ashamed to be Amerikkkans.  And I've met plenty of them, too.  How you can be proud of rape, torture and murder, all in flagrant and glorious defiance of international law, strikes me as a kind of pathology that will only end in a well-deserved disaster.

[Xavier_Onassis]

As I recall, my parents told me that Americans disliked Hitler before WWII because, despite his bringing Germany out of the Depression and restoring German pride, he had the nasty habit of sending soldiers ad police to kick down the doors of those who disagreed with him at ungodly hours of the night, humiliating them, and dragging the men in particular off to jail for indeterminate sentences.

This is pretty much what our Marines and soldiers are doing in Iraq. The only difference is that the Germans were more poorly armed than Iraqis are today.

I will admit that it does take some courage to bust down a door of someone who might be armed and dangerous.

I also observe that Congressional Medals of Honor  seems to have been awarded very seldom in Iraq, even after nearly five years.

[Michael Tee]

In a nutshell, they invaded a country, they are attempting to occupy the country and crush all resistance to their occupation, and they aim to stay in that country till it has a government that they approve of - - all of it in flagrant contravention of the most basic concepts of international law.

I would assume that if Muslims tried to invade and occupy the U.S.A., they would meet with a stiff resistance and many of them would be killed in the process.  Nobody would mourn their deaths, most people would in fact cheer them and wish for many more to follow.

For some reason, Amerikkkans seem to feel that they have been specially exempted not only from international law but indeed from the normal laws that govern human emotions and feelings.  Thus, not only do they have the unquestioned right to invade and occupy somebody else's homeland, they should not be subjected to any armed resistance whatsoever in doing so, and anybody who cheers for the death of the invaders is some kind of degenerate, low-life menace to the entire human race.

What is interesting to me is how the Amerikkkan sheeple ever came to hold this exalted view of themselves and what it will take to convince them that they are no better or worse than the rest of us on this crowded little planet.

[Plane]

I somehow don't think Butler was describing AIDS relief or any other similar humanitarian ventures.  The Marines didn't come to Cuba, Honduras or Nicaragua to heal the sick, they came to kill.  As Butler so unmistakeably points out.

Marines are buried all ovr Flanders feild , why?

Was there a payoff for Bellau wood?

The Marines are very faithfull and obeient to the US government , it s th resonsibility of the people of the US to make the commander in cheif an honest sort.

[Amianthus]

As I recall, my parents told me that Americans disliked Hitler before WWII because, despite his bringing Germany out of the Depression and restoring German pride, he had the nasty habit of sending soldiers ad police to kick down the doors of those who disagreed with him at ungodly hours of the night, humiliating them, and dragging the men in particular off to jail for indeterminate sentences.

This is pretty much what our Marines and soldiers are doing in Iraq. The only difference is that the Germans were more poorly armed than Iraqis are today.

Funny, I remember this happening under Clinton as well, only in the US.

[Brassmask]

Should the people of Berkeley automatically have to like the US Marines?

No. Does the United States Government automatically have to send pork barrel money their way?

If they have a GOP representative, I would have to assume the answer is a resounding yes.

[Michael Tee]

<<Marines are buried all ovr Flanders feild , why?>>

If you really want to know, it was because J.P. Morgan and other Wall Streeters had an enormous amount of money invested in English government bonds and did not want to see their investment go down the drain.

<<The Marines are very faithfull and obeient to the US government , it s th resonsibility of the people of the US to make the commander in cheif an honest sort.>>

Well, faithful and obedient service is very fine, everyone hates a mutinous bunch of malcontents, but they're still responsible for their actions and they don't check their individual responsibility as human beings with their civvies.  I might point out that the S.S. were very faithful and obedient too; as virtues faithfulness and obedience tend to be over-rated in the eyes of some who consider them as a moral get-out-of-jail-free card.

[Amianthus]

If they have a GOP representative, I would have to assume the answer is a resounding yes.

Yeah, 'cause we know that Democratic representatives NEVER put pork in the budget...

[Plane]

<<Marines are buried all ovr Flanders feild , why?>>

If you really want to know, it was because J.P. Morgan and other Wall Streeters had an enormous amount of money invested in English government bonds and did not want to see their investment go down the drain.

<<The Marines are very faithfull and obeient to the US government , it s th resonsibility of the people of the US to make the commander in cheif an honest sort.>>

Well, faithful and obedient service is very fine, everyone hates a mutinous bunch of malcontents, but they're still responsible for their actions and they don't check their individual responsibility as human beings with their civvies.  I might point out that the S.S. were very faithful and obedient too; as virtues faithfulness and obedience tend to be over-rated in the eyes of some who consider them as a moral get-out-of-jail-free card.

Their oath is to the constituion , it is up to us to be a good electorate and choose a good Commander in cheif , we can't escape our responsibility by pointing at them doing what we have been perseded to want.

[Michael Tee]

<<Their oath is to the constituion , it is up to us to be a good electorate and choose a good Commander in cheif , we can't escape our responsibility by pointing at them doing what we have been perseded to want.>>

What are you talking about, if the Commander-in-Chief wants atrocities, they'll give him atrocities?

Would you?

[Xavier_Onassis]

So, Plane, the Marines are required in your mind to be good Germans?

At the Nuremberg trials, the allies maintained that "Ve Vass only followingk orders" was not an adequate moral response.