Author Topic: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts  (Read 22401 times)

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BT

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2010, 06:20:49 PM »
The government bailed out Chrysler in 1983. Chrysler then began producing the K-cars, which sold well enough with Lee Iacocca advertising them, to allow Chrysler to pay off the loan guarantee before it was due to expire.


That was under Reagan wasn't it?

BT

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2010, 06:25:15 PM »
Quote
And glad we got that cleared up on not being sensitive to name calling.  Especially, since I never did today, or even "the last couple days".  And I'm sure we don't want to go down your road of what you've been doing the last several weeks, if not months

Sure you have asked me at least 5 times in the last coupole days what kinda wacky weed i've been smoking.

I don't believe i have called you any names in the last month. Perhaps you can dig up a post where i did.

At worst i have questioned some of your stances. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

sirs

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2010, 06:33:07 PM »
And again, clarification apparently isn't your strong suit.  Here's a hint....jesting about a relatively crazy-like thought process isn't accusing someone of being insane.    ::)    And let's just say, since the Mosque debacle, your record of misrepresentation, especially as it relates to me, could easily be taken as personal. 

Per your request, we'll just disagree at this point
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2010, 07:54:21 PM »
Quote
Here's a hint....jesting about a relatively crazy-like thought process isn't accusing someone of being insane.

That's just nuts.

 

sirs

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2010, 08:06:25 PM »
Now, should I take that personally?  Given the parameters you're applying, I should, right?  But I'll use mine, so I won't    8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2010, 08:21:43 PM »
That's even nuttier :o

sirs

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2010, 08:28:40 PM »
Precisely    ;)     :P      8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

R.R.

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2010, 01:06:34 AM »
The government bailed out Chrysler in 1983. Chrysler then began producing the K-cars, which sold well enough with Lee Iacocca advertising them, to allow Chrysler to pay off the loan guarantee before it was due to expire.


Actually the bailout of Chrysler was in '79 under Jimmy Carter, the Barack Obama of their times. It was for $1.5 billion. I don't see why the private sector couldn't have put up the money besides the government.

Chrysler's resurgence had more to do with Lee Iacocca's leadership than anything the government did.

kimba1

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2010, 01:54:35 AM »
not sure chrysler is a good example,since lee didn`t ask for money but a promise of it .

BT

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2010, 02:37:31 AM »
The government bailed out Chrysler in 1983. Chrysler then began producing the K-cars, which sold well enough with Lee Iacocca advertising them, to allow Chrysler to pay off the loan guarantee before it was due to expire.


Actually the bailout of Chrysler was in '79 under Jimmy Carter, the Barack Obama of their times. It was for $1.5 billion. I don't see why the private sector couldn't have put up the money besides the government.

Chrysler's resurgence had more to do with Lee Iacocca's leadership than anything the government did.


Actually the private sector did put up the money. US Government involvement was in the form of loan guarantees that required the 1.5 billion in financing as well as 2 billion more in commitments and concessions from suppliers, investors and employees.

But you are correct that it happened on Carter's watch though Reagan did support it.

Plane

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2010, 09:43:42 AM »
....  It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. --  Harry Truman...
http://www.bizmove.com/inspiration/m9a.htm
A good leader takes a little more than his share of the blame, a little less than his share of the credit

Arnold Glasow

There is no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn’t matter who gets the credit

Ralph Waldo Emerson



These are Obama tax cuts .
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 10:30:13 PM by Plane »

R.R.

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2010, 12:29:22 PM »
I still don't think it was right to put the American taxpayer on the hook for a failing company. The taxpayer never asked to take on that kind of risk. Reagan had business people in charge of the process and ended up making a profit with it, but that still doesn't make it right. Guarantee the loans with private financing or allow the company to go into bankruptcy. 

BT

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2010, 12:57:36 PM »
I understand your concerns.

But here are a couple of concerns to consider.

What would the cost be to the states and feds if Chrysler did go under.

Unemployment, food stamps, mortgages backed by federal funds etc. Lost revenue from taxes ?

Perhaps cosigning the loan was the cheapest alternative.

But one thing I am curious about. Where did the 350 million dollar profit to the feds come from?


sirs

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2010, 01:32:42 PM »
While His Base Rages, Obama Faces Tax-Cut Reality

Reality strikes. Barack Obama spurned the advice of columnists Paul Krugman and Katrina vanden Heuvel and agreed with Republicans to extend the current income tax rates -- the so-called Bush tax cuts -- for another two years.

He got a few things in return, primarily extended unemployment benefits for another 13 months, and agreed as well to a 2 percent cut in the Social Security payroll tax.

But he recognized the reality that in order to prevent a tax increase on those with incomes under $250,000 he had to prevent a tax increase on those over that line, as well.

This has infuriated liberal Democrats like outgoing Speaker Nancy Pelosi, but they share some of the blame themselves. They probably could have passed their version of the tax bill earlier this year, before the economic recovery stalled in the spring.

But with the economy faltering, there's a strong argument against raising anyone's taxes -- strong enough to have persuaded many congressional Democrats.

Obama had to abandon his goal of raising taxes on high earners not because Republicans opposed it but because not enough Democrats supported it. Pelosi couldn't summon up a majority on the issue back in September, and Harry Reid could get only 53 of the needed 60 votes this month.

Democrats, not Republicans, are responsible for extension of all the "Bush tax cuts."

Still, Obama in his surly statement Monday evening and his unusually brief press conference Tuesday afternoon, was at pains to attack Republicans.

The president who first came to national attention for expressing respect for those with whom he differed insisted that he was eager to "fight" Republicans and described them as "hostage takers," with the American people as hostages. Not much evidence of civility.

And he addressed most of his remarks to what last month's election revealed as a narrow segment of the nation's electorate, the Democratic base.

Over the years, I've noticed that politicians tend to view the whole nation through the prism of their electoral base, even when they know it's not typical. On Monday and Tuesday, Obama seemed to be aiming his remarks at the 13th state Senate district of Illinois, which he designed and which is about 60 percent black and 25 percent gentry liberal, not to the political independents who supported him and his party in 2008 and then went heavily Republican last month.

Thus Obama lauded the health care bill jammed through Congress by Democratic leaders and, addressing liberal complaints that it lacked a public option, said it could be expanded as Medicare was. That might mollify liberal Democrats but will repel independents, who opposed and still oppose Obamacare by wide margins.

Obama did argue that "tax breaks for wealthy individuals" are unpopular and would prove a political liability for Republicans in 2012. But for every poll supporting that proposition you can find another going the other way -- it all depends on how the question is worded.

The strongest part of the press conference came when Obama told liberal Democrats that robust economic growth will make everything easier. That's true: Robust growth produces a boom in revenues far beyond what government statistical models predict. In 1995, Bill Clinton refused to even promise to balance the budget, but the tech boom generated enough revenue to do so a few years later.

But that raises the question of why the economy has been growing at such a limp rate two years into the Obama administration. The specter of higher taxes on high earners -- delayed now for two years, but still threatened by the president -- surely has done something to choke off growth.

So has uncertainty about the extent and cost of the administration's regulatory policies -- which are not limited by the deal on taxes. Extension of unemployment benefits, arguably good policy at a time when jobs are genuinely scarce, tends to perpetuate unemployment as the economy grows, by inducing some workers to hold out for higher-paying jobs.

The tax deal is certainly better for the economy than political gridlock over extending the tax cuts. How much better is uncertain.

But the Democratic base seems more interested in expanding government than in stimulating the economy. They are bellowing with rage not so much at Obama but at the reality that he is grudgingly acknowledging. They had their time, and now it's gone.


Economic Reality
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: Liberal Left is mad as hell at Obama for supporting Bush tax cuts
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2010, 01:40:57 PM »
Personally, I won't be voting for him again.  I don't regret supporting him over Hillary Clinton but he's pretty much done what Harold Ford Jr did which is to believe that the left will vote for him no matter what.

We wanted a liberal with a backbone.  We got a DINO.

He had all three branches and chose to go the easy route of just doing nothing and not rocking any boats.  He hasn't done any of the things that those of LEFTISTS wanted him to do.  He didn't even close down Guantanamo.  He won't even overturn DADT even tho the MILITARY said it was a bad idea.

This lady I'm dating is really involved with politics and she's still trying to defend him because she's a middle of the roader but even SHE is now thinking that maybe he's just a dumbass.