Author Topic: I was affraid to mention bullies here  (Read 4144 times)

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kimba1

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I was affraid to mention bullies here
« on: April 19, 2007, 03:58:05 PM »
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/19/MNGH5PBJ1K1.DTL

I mentioned several time bullies were the cause of these outbreaks
but on this one I was thinking it would be in poor taste to bring it up
now I`m not sure.
thee most common link to these school shootings is bullies harrasing these kids to the breaking point.
but I researched and found the general public tend to refuse to believe such thing

kimba1

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 04:03:54 PM »
sorry wrong link

http://cbs5.com/topstories/topstories_story_108094755.html

not good with technology

_JS

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 04:09:35 PM »
There's nothing wrong with mentioning it kimba. It does appear to have been a problem for this young man and to have had a serious effect on him.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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Plane

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2007, 04:12:28 PM »
   This guy was a bully himself , but he was eager to assume the mantle of marterdom against bullys .

    If his mind was clear , he would not have had the problems he did, but he was denying his own bullying nature even as he bullyed three dozen people to death.

_JS

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 04:24:36 PM »
Quote
This guy was a bully himself , but he was eager to assume the mantle of marterdom against bullys .

    If his mind was clear , he would not have had the problems he did, but he was denying his own bullying nature even as he bullyed three dozen people to death.

I don't think that is such an odd response from someone who feels powerless. I should explictly say that I mean becoming a bully yourself, not going on a murderous rampage (which is thankfully a very rare response).

There's no real secret to that, look at the children who are physically abused and go on to be physically abusive to their children.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2007, 04:35:45 PM »
Quote
This guy was a bully himself , but he was eager to assume the mantle of marterdom against bullys .

    If his mind was clear , he would not have had the problems he did, but he was denying his own bullying nature even as he bullyed three dozen people to death.

I don't think that is such an odd response from someone who feels powerless. I should explictly say that I mean becoming a bully yourself, not going on a murderous rampage (which is thankfully a very rare response).

There's no real secret to that, look at the children who are physically abused and go on to be physically abusive to their children.



I partially agree .

The root of much bullying is fear.

But this murderer does not escape his responsibility by placeing blame onto family , bullys , or victims. In his video I saw a desprate attempt to get out of responsibility by blameing every conceveable other than himself , so that he could say "look what you made me do".

Why did he care what we thought of him even tho he did not care to go on living?

If there is one thing I would tell his potential copy cats it is that his blame is his own.

kimba1

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2007, 04:44:13 PM »
the paranoia in me is noticing a certain guard at work who also keeps to himself.
but he`s  quite now.
but maybe since I`m one of the few who actually talks to him
i might be safe
people tend to leave him alone.
he`s quite a sad human being.
i`d do something,but he`s also quite a unpleasent person,so there are limits what i can do for him.

_JS

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 04:47:14 PM »
Quote
But this murderer does not escape his responsibility

Absolutely correct! I would not suggest otherwise.

Still, there is no reason that past behaviors and attitudes cannot be examined and that possible areas of intervention into his life (or others like him) could not be looked at as well.

I think it is important to remember that he was a human being.

Often today I think we have concepts of people like Hitler, Amin, and Stalin (if you'll pardon the tangent) as monsters and not really human, but more like mythological villains of history. But the reality is that they were human beings as well. They had childhoods (rather bad ones for a couples of them), fears, dreams, etc...just like us. Somewhere, something went terribly wrong.

That doesn't take away culpability at all.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2007, 05:01:07 PM »
Still, there is no reason that past behaviors and attitudes cannot be examined and that possible areas of intervention into his life (or others like him) could not be looked at as well.

He was referred to counseling numerous times.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

domer

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 05:43:29 PM »
That complexity, mixing good and bad traits, is perhaps the most startling insight one can take away from a brush -- historical, literary or otherrwise -- with a "monster." Currently I'm reading Norman Mailer's "biographical novel" of Adolph Hitler. One of the chapters I completed last night had Adolph at six or so walking to a beekeepers farm with his father, a rare treat. The y warmed up to each other, the boy getting downright giddy with delight, it seemed. In any case, just about anyone can relate to the vignette. (Don't worry, Mailer does a savage though subtle satire on the young Fuehrer and his family.)

Michael Tee

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2007, 06:15:13 PM »
I think it's painfully obvious that this kid was suffering from a serious mental illness and that the state mental health establishment such as it is in Virginia has let him down terribly, with tragic consequences for him and all those around him.  To blame him in any way for his illness is inexcusably backward and ignorant.

As far as bullying goes, it looked to me like people had tried unsuccessfully to reach out to him.  I think the bullying was a factor in other school massacres, but probably it's more likely to occur in high school than at the universitiy level.

I would be very interested to know more about the family dynamics, which can be pretty intense in Korean immigrant families.  They really strive for the top and can be hard on kids who aren't giving 110% effort all day every day.  Some of the things I read and heard about this guy in particular made me wonder about his home life.  Although this type of illness can certainly develop regardless of family pressures and expectations.

A very sad story.  For everyone.

domer

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2007, 06:26:34 PM »
I think our difference is just semantic, Michael, but Cho, like every other person similarly or even remotely situated, is responsible not only for his actions but also for his illness, leaving "blameworthiness" aside as a tad too pejorative.

kimba1

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2007, 06:29:27 PM »
<I would be very interested to know more about the family dynamics, which can be pretty intense in Korean immigrant families.  They really strive for the top and can be hard on kids who aren't giving 110% effort all day every day>

it`s intense in any overacchieving houshold.
it`s called acceptable abuse,and it will never bee take seriously.
remember overall nobody believes people can overstudy. their are college that brag about the massive curriculum.
but I notice I never hear of these unversities.
san luis is study how to roll back on this trend.
they actually have noticable burnout rate.
lowell a high level magnete school has a decent suicide rate.

funny thing is I think this kind of data may attract parents to these schools ,since every parent will only think their kid can handle it.



Michael Tee

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2007, 06:35:34 PM »
domer, I don't get it.  I don't think a mentally ill person is responsible for his illness, and the only way he's responsible for his actions that I'm aware of is if he is stabilized by his medication and then neglects or refuses to continue on his medication.  Otherwise, he's no more responsible for his actions than an epileptic is responsible for his seizures.

domer

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Re: I was affraid to mention bullies here
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 06:58:39 PM »
I'll respond more fully later, Michael. But in one of the senses I'm using responsible, the epileptic must be "responsible" for taking his medication, getting regular medical care, avoiding stressing situations, refraining from activities that might jeopardize others should he have a seizure, and so forth. There is a margin, sometimes a wide one, where an individual does not yet have knowledge of his condition or insight sufficient to enable effective therapeutic action. These individuals, as a matter of fact, cannot be responsible for their illnesses. This is most pronounced for an inchoate epileptic, say: he can't take preventive action because he doesn't yet know he's sick. It is much less true for the mentally ill, who have a twilight of recognition, often, from going about their daily lives and noticing not only how they feel but also how people react to them. There was plenty of the latter in Cho's life. I maintain that it's a very bad precedent to divorce responsibility from the actor himself except in the most extreme circumstances. Indeed, that is presently and will remain for quite some time the stance of U.S. law.