Author Topic: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,  (Read 1838 times)

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sirs

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Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« on: March 02, 2010, 08:07:44 PM »
...and the Democrat super majorities for the next decade+.  Time to ram Cash for Croakers thru
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 08:22:12 PM »
Well, I kinda called this one. 

My question now, is did Obama push this without counting votes, or is he sure he even has enough Democrats to provide him 51 on a tactic that up to 75% of the population opposes, and is sure to send the Dems into a likely minority status, possibly in both houses, come Nov

If the former, can he even remotely try to claim that those dastardly republicans & tea partiers are thwarting him, yet again?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 08:37:35 PM »
So, how do the Dems reconcile reconciliation?  A transparent and purely partisan middle finger to compromise, bipartisanship, and the electorate
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 04:12:32 PM »
It's not the size that matters.

Today President Barack Obama will unveil health care proposal Part VII. The new House bill, according to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, will be "much smaller" than previous efforts.

After surveying the brutal political conditions facing them, Democrats, it seems, believe that if they lay claim to more modest legislation, they lay claim to a less horrid bill.

If only that were true.

Though a political victory is a must for the Obama presidency, those who are invested ideologically in the promise of government-run health care understand that even a small victory today can be an enduring one.

Once Washington gains a toehold -- and considering government controls 49 cents on every health care dollar spent, by "toehold" I mean "bearhug" -- it is an inescapable reality that whatever it comes up with will be expansive and expensive.


That's the message Pelosi was telegraphing to her allies when -- in addition to pointing out how itty-bitty the bill will be -- she added that it will be "big enough" to put the country on a "path" toward sustainable health care reform.

The righteous "path," naturally, ends at the gates of a single-payer system. The infrastructure to reach this objective -- price controls, new entitlements and wide-ranging mandates -- will be set in place once Democrats use reconciliation to pass the bill, deal with the short-term electoral consequences and let history work itself out.

You know how it goes: Did you hear about the appalling conditions those children are living under? Gotta expand it. How about the old lady who has 12 prescriptions when she only needs eight? Gotta control costs.

A minor victory for liberalism today also would be a colossal triumph tomorrow because it's improbable -- implausible, actually -- that Republicans ever would have the fortitude (or the votes in Congress) to repeal most of Obamacare should they regain power.

Remember that state participation in Medicaid is voluntary. What governor would pull out of that or any entitlement program?

Remember that Congress estimated Medicare's cost at $12 billion for 1990 (adjusted for inflation) when the program kicked off, in 1965. Medicare cost $107 billion in 1990 and quickly is approaching $500 billion. Who's going to stop it?

The template is used over and over again. Government is a growth industry.

When you unwrap today's health care reform legislation, nearly every Democratic initiative, small or large, is designed to affect the choices people make through some mechanism of top-down control.

On the flip side, so far, reform legislation has been devoid of any meaningful market-based solutions that would spur a healthier private-insurance sector, guaranteeing consumers will see rates rise and Democrats will have a boogeyman to point to as they "fix" the bill down the road.

I remember asking liberal Rep. Diana DeGette of Colorado -- after she, for the umpteenth time, claimed that Republicans had presented no ideas in the health care debate -- what she thought of the GOP bills in the House at the time. She replied that they were too small and not "comprehensive" enough to really matter.

Now, apparently, small is OK. Why? It never has been an issue of how comprehensive a plan is, but how invasive it could be.

And no matter how many iterations of health care "reform" are foisted on the nation by Democrats -- or what the exact dimensions of those iterations may be or how many public relations angles are deployed to sell them -- the core issue has not changed.

Though, it is clear, the tactic of incremental "progress" has been relearned. Don't be fooled. The endgame has not changed.


Government is a growth industry
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 05:06:46 PM »
Time to act on health care, Obama declares
Mar 3, 2010
By ALAN FRAM


WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama urged Congress Wednesday to vote "up or down" on sweeping health care legislation in the next few weeks, endorsing a plan that denies Senate Republicans the right to kill the bill by stalling with a filibuster.

"I don't see how another year of negotiations would help. Moreover, the insurance companies aren't starting over," Obama said, rejecting Republican calls to begin anew on an effort to remake the health care system.

The president made his appeal as Democratic leaders in Congress surveyed their rank and file for the votes needed to pass legislation by majority vote?invoking rules that deny Senate Republicans the right to block it through endless stalling debate. Obama specifically endorsed that approach

GOP leaders were unmoved, despite Obama's declaration that he had incorporated a few of their proposals into his revised legislation.

The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said a decision by Democrats to invoke rules that bar filibusters would be "met with outrage" by the public, and he said Obama was pushing a sweeping bill that voters don't want.

"They've had enough of this yearlong effort to get a win for the Democratic Party at any price to the American people," McConnell said on the Senate floor.

At its core, Obama's proposal would extend health care to tens of millions of uninsured Americans while cracking down on insurance company practices such as denying coverage on the basis of a pre-existing medical condition.

With his remarks, delivered at the White House, Obama took the lead in a bid by congressional Democrats to mount a party-line rescue mission for the health care legislation that appeared on the cusp of passage late last year, only to be derailed when Republicans won a Massachusetts Senate seat that gave them the ability to block it.

There is still no certainty about the outcome?or even that Democrats will agree to the series of changes that Obama said represented Republican contributions.

Yep, screw you ignorant peasants.  "The Chosen" knows better
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 10:34:15 AM »
What an exciting debate sirs, sirs, sirs, and sirs can have with themselves!

It reminds me of a book with an appropriate title: "Sex for One".
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 11:37:05 AM »
Way to facilitate that civil dailogue, you frequently complain about Xo.  Your family would be really proud       ::)

For the rest of the more rationally minded, they'll note that my posts are in staying with the theme of the title.  If any one wishes to repond to them, to engage in some back and forth "debate", they are welcome to. 

For those on the left that have a transparent inability to do so, they can continue the tried and true tactic of pleading ignorance, while sticking their head in the sand, with remedial comments such as What an exciting debate sirs, sirs, sirs, and sirs can have with themselves!  It reminds me of a book with an appropriate title: "Sex for One".   Or they can pretend to be emotionally/mentally "traumatized" for daring to be called on, for some "less then honest" claims, and simply focus on calling other people names

In either case, my comments are in keepng with the theme of the title I applied.  Your inability to refute them is notably appreciated.  Keep up the good work        8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 04:31:32 PM »



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 10:15:18 AM »
It is really admirable that sirs can stay on the same topic when conversing with himself.

As he says, "It speaks volumes".


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 12:33:30 PM »
So does Xo's apparent lack of debating in a debate forum, but expert ability at 3rd grade insulting.  I think we can nominate him for a Razzie, even       8)     We once again thank you for your transparent inability at being able to defend the reconciliation process...that being the topic of the thread.  Naaaa, he needs to save those neurons for comebacks like the last one
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 04:46:58 PM »



« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 04:54:33 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 02:54:59 PM »
A proposal that's up for grabs in the Senate would prohibit the private sector from making any education loans whatsoever, removing this area of the market from private control. But sixty votes are  needed in the Senate to allow this proposal to pass, and Harry Reid doesn't have them.

So Reid and Obama are considering using reconciliation to pass the education bill as well as the health care bill.

There's something of a case to be made financially for the government take-over of private educational loans, if you use the warped parameters set by Democratic accounting standards. Since the student loan industry is so highly regulated by Uncle Sam -- to the point that the government suffers a loss if a student defaults on a private loan -- having the government take over the loan actually might save the government money.

The free-market solution to this might be to remove all the regulations on private student loans, and let the market make the decisions. But Democrats prefer to have the government take over the entire industry. This will ostensibly help the government save money, help students because they will have easier access to loans, and help society fund higher education.

But the ramifications of artificial subsidies for higher education never enter the discussion. What if the higher education bubble bursts? What if a student would be better off not going to college? What about the U.S. taxpayer, who is being forced against his will to pay for the education of his neighbor?

The bill passed the House last year, in a move that the New York Times characterized as a victory over "an intense lobbying effort by the for-profit lenders." The NYT says the insurmountable 60-vote threshold in the Senate was because of "the industry's allies in the Senate." While it's true that legislators from states where student loan companies are located are fighting this bill, there's a bigger principle at stake: propping up an industry that, like all other industries, is better left in the hands of the market.


Let's Just Use Reconciliation For Everything!
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 06:19:32 PM »
The free-market solution to this might be to remove all the regulations on private student loans, and let the market make the decisions. But Democrats prefer to have the government take over the entire industry. This will ostensibly help the government save money, help students because they will have easier access to loans, and help society fund higher education.

The way it works now is the government guarantees these loans. If the student pays, the bank gets paid, and the government gets nothing.
If the student defaults, the government pays, and the bank loses nothing, and takes no risk. The government then tries to collect. If the money were lent by the government in the first place, the program would at worst cost nothing and at best could turn a profit. People take paying the government more seriously than paying some bank. And then every year there are those IRS refunds, an excellent opportunity for the government to collect from the deadbeats.


But the ramifications of artificial subsidies for higher education never enter the discussion. What if the higher education bubble bursts? What if a student would be better off not going to college? What about the U.S. taxpayer, who is being forced against his will to pay for the education of his neighbor?

Well gee, if the student would be better off not going, then he won't go, and therefore will not borrow money at all.

And the taxpayer is not forced to pay anything. Or lend anything.



Someone paid taxes so that you could be educated. Now it is your turn to pay for their kids.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 08:34:07 PM »
    If I am giving good service I deserve the pay the service is worth .

    What happens if I get paid what I think the service is worth whether it is any good or not?

      If I and my compeditors get paid what I demand no matter what quality I deliver , which of my compeditors am I weaker against? The one that expends enough effort to provide good service and demands only what it is worth, expanding no more than its ability to give good service; or the other compeditor, who demands high pay for service that is delivered as cheaply and easily as possible , to the greatest number that can be roped in to the scheme?

Which of these compeditors will I have to follow to stay in business?


Goernment money , given to great masses of students with little thought to how well it is used, is a danger to the overall quality of US education.

sirs

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Re: Yep...screw the people, the electorate,
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 08:42:24 PM »
I'd like to thank Xo for actually taking the time to respond rather substantively vs the normal snark-laden approaches, so often employed. 

Quote
But the ramifications of artificial subsidies for higher education never enter the discussion. What if the higher education bubble bursts? What if a student would be better off not going to college? What about the U.S. taxpayer, who is being forced against his will to pay for the education of his neighbor?

Well gee, if the student would be better off not going, then he won't go, and therefore will not borrow money at all.  And the taxpayer is not forced to pay anything. Or lend anything.  Someone paid taxes so that you could be educated. Now it is your turn to pay for their kids.

We already pay taxes for public education Xo.  I can't count the ways how wrong it is for me the tax payer to then ALSO pay for someone else's stiffing their lender.  That's what is at issue here.  That and yet another effort to both monopolize a particular sector of our economy, via government, and the use of the parlimentary trick of partisal reconciliation to try and pass it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle