About those "thousands" of rocket attacks from Gaza . . .

[Michael Tee]

Noam Chomsky kinda puts the whole thing into historical perspective with a capsule history in the form of targeted assassinations, rocket retaliation, cease-fire agreement broken by Israel with new targeted assasinations, more rockets, etc.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/6064/the_real_threat_aboard_the_freedom_flotilla/

[sirs]

With the all-to-frequent omission, that none of the supposed targeted assassinations would be occuring, if it weren't for the continued rocket attacks, and terrorist agenda of ridding israel from the region, in the 1st place.  The retalliations consistently are occuring with the Israeli side of history

Once again, chicken/egg phenomenon

Blockade would not be occuring, if it were not one of the main sources of arms getting into Hamas' hands to use against Israel

Palestine would now be a sovereign nation by now, if it were not for Hamas and like minds terrorist efforts at trying to destroy a sovereign Israel

[sirs]

Doncha hate when reality and facts keep getting in the way of a really ..... lousy Antisemitic rant?

[sirs]

Ahh, come on...someone needs to respond to Tee's topic, in order for him to overcome his mental inhibition/insecurity, so he can at least respond to his own thread.  B?  Plane?  Cu4?

[Kramer]

who hurled the first rock?

seems not too realistic that these folks come to their new nation in 1949 and start off assassinating and pushing people around. my better judgment tells me that the camel jockeys started the aggression.

[sirs]

Thanks Kramer.  And properly assessed, though I'd add the historical retaliations by Israel came far earlier than 1949.  At least Tee now can unleash his and distorted accusations & Antisemitic rantings.

[Kramer]

Thanks Kramer.  And properly assessed, though I'd add the historical retaliations by Israel came far earlier than 1949.  At least Tee now can unleash his and distorted accusations & Antisemitic rantings.

I should have said returned in large numbers in 1949 but of course Jews have been there since Mosses led them there thousands of years ago. Those little details somehow escape some people. oh and speaking of throwing rocks I believe Jews were enslaved by Egyptians during Mosses time.

[sirs]

It's like this twisted leftist vacuum, devoid of actual historical importance.  As if Palestinians have always been the Jewish whipping pole, and Arabs have always been under some oppressive thumb of Israel.  Since the dawn of time, there is action, and then there's reaction.  Why there's this innate underlying hatred aimed at anything/everything Israel is beyond me.  It's along the lines of some innate hatred aimed at blacks.  

Has Israel acted as saints?, no, of course not.  Who has.

Have they made life difficult for Palestinians who wish to be part of Israel proper?, yea, they have.  Is it right?, probably not.  Is it justifyable?, debatable, given the extenuating circumstances

Has Israel been the target of terrorists and their organizations, such as Hamas, bent on seeing the destruction of Israel?, ever since they stepped foot in the Middle East?, absofrellinloutely.  And NO, it's not because of how they supposedly treat Palestinians, that's just a convenient "whipping pole".  Ethnic cleansing??  The accusations of the woefully ignorant.  They're targeted, because they simply exist.  

And when they are on the receiving end in the action of recklessly launched rockets by folks like Hamas, when not blowing up discos or buses, then Israel takes the REACTION of defending themselves, be it "targeted assassinations" of Hamas members, the blockading of arms attempting to be smuggled in, or the taking of lands in defense of advancing military formations  

History, folks

[Kramer]

yeah I don't feel sorry for those damn Palestinians. Hell, Obama just gave them another $400 million to add to the billions that have already received.

Maybe if they stopped acting that way I might start feeling sorry for them but as long as they are going to launch rockets and such, screw them!

[Michael Tee]

<<I should have said returned in large numbers in 1949 but of course Jews have been there since Mosses led them there thousands of years ago. Those little details somehow escape some people. oh and speaking of throwing rocks I believe Jews were enslaved by Egyptians during Mosses time.>>

We've been through most of this (except for Moses) in another thread.  The census figures shows that the Jewish presence in Palestine at the start of the 20th century was minuscule.  The few Jews still living there then could never have seized the land, expelled the Arabs, and occupied the West Bank. 

The numbers tell the story.  The first mass influx of Jews into Palestine began in 1933, with Hitler's seizure of power in Germany.  There are very few Jews in Israel today who can trace their family presence in the land back to 1932 or earlier.  The vast majority or their parents and/or grandparents arrived in my lifetime.  They are the ones who seized the Arabs' land, expelled the Arab inhabitants and are today continuing the ethnic cleansing necessary to accommodate an "incoming of the exiles" at the expense of the folks who were already there.

The root cause of the conflict - - of the suicide bombings, the targeted assassinations, the rocket retaliation, the Hamas threats, the Jewish massacres, the blockade, the murder of the blockade runners - - starts with the Jewish influx and the founding of a "Jewish state" in the land of another people.

[sirs]

The root cause of the conflict - - of the suicide bombings, the targeted assassinations, the rocket retaliation, the Hamas threats, the Jewish massacres, the blockade, the murder of the blockade runners - - starts with the Jewish influx and the founding of a "Jewish state" in the land of another people.

Bzzzzzz.....wrong.....again.  But thanks for playing.  We have some fine parting gifts for you.  Oh, and Islamic terrorists around, led by the likes of Hamas, do applaud your efforts.

[Kramer]

<<I should have said returned in large numbers in 1949 but of course Jews have been there since Mosses led them there thousands of years ago. Those little details somehow escape some people. oh and speaking of throwing rocks I believe Jews were enslaved by Egyptians during Mosses time.>>

We've been through most of this (except for Moses) in another thread.  The census figures shows that the Jewish presence in Palestine at the start of the 20th century was minuscule.  The few Jews still living there then could never have seized the land, expelled the Arabs, and occupied the West Bank. 

The numbers tell the story.  The first mass influx of Jews into Palestine began in 1933, with Hitler's seizure of power in Germany.  There are very few Jews in Israel today who can trace their family presence in the land back to 1932 or earlier.  The vast majority or their parents and/or grandparents arrived in my lifetime.  They are the ones who seized the Arabs' land, expelled the Arab inhabitants and are today continuing the ethnic cleansing necessary to accommodate an "incoming of the exiles" at the expense of the folks who were already there.

The root cause of the conflict - - of the suicide bombings, the targeted assassinations, the rocket retaliation, the Hamas threats, the Jewish massacres, the blockade, the murder of the blockade runners - - starts with the Jewish influx and the founding of a "Jewish state" in the land of another people.

whatever - they are there now and they aren't going anywhere. it's time you and the others that don't like it get over it. the sooner you accept things for how they are now the faster peace can be achieved. The more you people want to live in the past and harbor ill feelings the longer you will be unhappy and the better your chances are of dying of cancer.

[Michael Tee]

<<the sooner you accept things for how they are now the faster peace can be achieved. >>

You STILL don't get it, do you?  The job is only half-done.  There are still Arabs living on the West Bank.  There are a million and a half of them in Gaza.  NOBODY on the Jewish side of the line is looking for ways how "peace can be achieved."  They want those fucking Arabs off "their" land.  The Arabs of course, have a different POV.  They aren't living in the past, they're living in the present.  Which means they're in refugee camps, they're in the Gaza strip (which even before the blockade had no control over any of its ports including the airport.)  They want to move OUT of the present and INTO the future, a future where they've got their own land back.

<<The more you people want to live in the past and harbor ill feelings the longer you will be unhappy and the better your chances are of dying of cancer. >>

Well, Kramer, I am afraid "ill feelings" will continue to be harboured.  The Palestinian children killed by the Israelis are still dead, the sick who died unable to get to their doctors are still dead and the land once occupied by the Arabs is now occupied by the Jews, and the land still occupied by the Arabs is running through its daily patterns of random harassment by armed settlers, and settling into its seige mentality and the Gaza Strip is still blockaded. 

[Kramer]

<<the sooner you accept things for how they are now the faster peace can be achieved. >>

You STILL don't get it, do you?  The job is only half-done.  There are still Arabs living on the West Bank.  There are a million and a half of them in Gaza.  NOBODY on the Jewish side of the line is looking for ways how "peace can be achieved."  They want those fucking Arabs off "their" land.  The Arabs of course, have a different POV.  They aren't living in the past, they're living in the present.  Which means they're in refugee camps, they're in the Gaza strip (which even before the blockade had no control over any of its ports including the airport.)  They want to move OUT of the present and INTO the future, a future where they've got their own land back.

<<The more you people want to live in the past and harbor ill feelings the longer you will be unhappy and the better your chances are of dying of cancer. >>

Well, Kramer, I am afraid "ill feelings" will continue to be harboured.  The Palestinian children killed by the Israelis are still dead, the sick who died unable to get to their doctors are still dead and the land once occupied by the Arabs is now occupied by the Jews, and the land still occupied by the Arabs is running through its daily patterns of random harassment by armed settlers, and settling into its seige mentality and the Gaza Strip is still blockaded. 

I guess it's time their Mosses showed up to lead them to a better land. First they need to roam the desert for 40 years and stop idol worshiping. Then 6 million of them should be gassed and incinerated, and after they suffer 1/2 of what Jews have suffered the past 100 years then let's have this conversation again.

[sirs]

<<the sooner you accept things for how they are now the faster peace can be achieved. >>

You STILL don't get it, do you?  The job is only half-done.  There are still Arabs living on the West Bank.  There are a million and a half of them in Gaza.  NOBODY on the Jewish side of the line is looking for ways how "peace can be achieved."  They want those fucking Arabs off "their" land.  

No, No, No.  The only one(s) that don't get it is that Israel wants "those f'ing Arabs" to LEAVE THEM ALONE.  How convenient for folks like yourself and Hamas to believe Israel's supposed "their" land is the whole of Middle East, when in REALITY, its simply where they are currently.  NO MORE, NO EXPANDING IN OTHER TERRITORIES.  Merely the land they currently reside/control, in defense of their existance.  That's it  

The Arabs of course, have a different POV.

That's an understatement, though pretty bigoted in trying to lump all Arabs together, though