Author Topic: Behavior modifacation vs racism  (Read 18711 times)

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Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2008, 02:44:25 AM »

These implicit associations are half of the picture , they are the part that allows one to place the catagory above the individual. Placeing the individual above the catagory is a learned behavior , placeing things and people in large catagorys is more primitive , it is innate.


What your analysis is missing is that the categories and which people belong to which categories are also learned.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2008, 02:47:31 AM »

Why do you say "Of course there is."?

What is there to make it likely or possible?


Sigh. "Of course there is. But we're not going to get there by ignoring the moderate Muslims or via military action." Martin Luther wasn't in a majority position either.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #77 on: May 15, 2008, 02:53:30 AM »

Why do you say "Of course there is."?

What is there to make it likely or possible?


Sigh. "Of course there is. But we're not going to get there by ignoring the moderate Muslims or via military action." Martin Luther wasn't in a majority position either.

Here is a good way to make a relevant minority into a moot minority , introduce them as "our " favorites.
They might do us some good but we can't help them by helping them.

Imagine Martin Luther addressing the Diet of Worms with a Saracen Lawyer?

Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2008, 02:57:42 AM »

These implicit associations are half of the picture , they are the part that allows one to place the catagory above the individual. Placeing the individual above the catagory is a learned behavior , placeing things and people in large catagorys is more primitive , it is innate.


What your analysis is missing is that the categories and which people belong to which categories are also learned.

Fine ,
that is another learned part , but the ability and tendancy to catagorise and prefer is innate .

I don't think it would harm my point here if there were several other learned components , the point is pretty well made that the inate component is necessacery to the phenominon.

Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2008, 03:00:07 AM »

Why do you say "Of course there is."?

What is there to make it likely or possible?


Sigh. "Of course there is. But we're not going to get there by ignoring the moderate Muslims or via military action." Martin Luther wasn't in a majority position either.

Is it posible to answer the other part of this question?
What is there to make it likely or possible?
(for Islam to develop more widespread moderation , or disgust with violent means to be widely expressed)

Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2008, 03:01:23 AM »

the point is pretty well made that the inate component is necessacery to the phenominon.


Yes, but the innate component is not the phenomenon.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2008, 03:02:12 AM »

Here is a good way to make a relevant minority into a moot minority , introduce them as "our " favorites.


I don't recall suggesting we do that.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2008, 03:04:33 AM »

What is there to make it likely or possible?
(for Islam to develop more widespread moderation , or disgust with violent means to be widely expressed)


What is "the moderate Muslims", Alex?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2008, 03:04:47 AM »

the point is pretty well made that the inate component is necessacery to the phenominon.


Yes, but the innate component is not the phenomenon.

Let us resolve then that Racism is a phenominon made up of several components both learned and inate ,
to wit....
Complex.

Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2008, 03:15:23 AM »

What is there to make it likely or possible?
(for Islam to develop more widespread moderation , or disgust with violent means to be widely expressed)


What is "the moderate Muslims", Alex?

Those helpless and moot tiny and nearly silent people that we cannot assist without destroying them?

That is what Islam has from which to grow more widespread moderation , and disgust with violent means  being  widely expressed?

This is already being done by the President and Diplomatic corps to the maximum extent that it is possible , there isn't a prominent moderate anywhere in the US that hasn't been invited to the whitehouse.  The best fruit it has borne so far is to reassure the ones that are already our freinds that they can remain our freinds .

If there is a more than moderate Muslim , a real reformer , he would be dumb to present his reform as an American project , our neglect of this guy would be good for him.

As for the effacacy of Bombing campaigns , they work really well where the enemy gathers up its resorces , we can therefore keep the immoderate and violent scattered , which over a long term will make them look like loosers , perception being very important in this situation , it is likely to work.

Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2008, 03:18:53 AM »

Let us resolve then that Racism is a phenominon made up of several components both learned and inate ,
to wit....
Complex.


But it isn't.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #86 on: May 15, 2008, 03:26:19 AM »

Let us resolve then that Racism is a phenominon made up of several components both learned and inate ,
to wit....
Complex.


But it isn't.

Would you argue with Universe Prince for a while?
He seems to think that there are both learned and innate components , ...
Quote from: Plane on Today at 01:57:42 AM

the point is pretty well made that the inate component is necessacery to the phenominon.

Quote from: UP

Yes, but the innate component is not the phenomenon.


[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


Haveing several  interrelated  components ,is as good a definition of "Complexity" as I require.

Haveing several  interrelated dinamic components is just gravy.

Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2008, 03:29:24 AM »

Those helpless and moot tiny and nearly silent people that we cannot assist without destroying them?


I don't know why that would be true.


As for the effacacy of Bombing campaigns , they work really well where the enemy gathers up its resorces , we can therefore keep the immoderate and violent scattered , which over a long term will make them look like loosers , perception being very important in this situation , it is likely to work.


So, if we remove all support from moderates and bomb the countries, this plan is going to make them like us? less inclined to hate us? more reasonable? because the terrorists are going to look like losers? At no point is this plan making any sense at all.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2008, 03:37:23 AM »

Would you argue with Universe Prince for a while?
He seems to think that there are both learned and innate components , ...


Actually, I've spoken with him directly, and he thinks there is only the learned component of considering people of another race or skin color to be inferior. According to him, the "innate component" is not really a component of racism. It simply is what it is. It is not responsible for racism. So he says. But he's an idiotic, smart ass jerk. What the frak does he know?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Behavior modifacation vs racism
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2008, 03:48:17 AM »

Those helpless and moot tiny and nearly silent people that we cannot assist without destroying them?


I don't know why that would be true.
What part isn't ? Pick one.
Quote




As for the efficacy of Bombing campaigns , they work really well where the enemy gathers up its resources , we can therefore keep the immoderate and violent scattered , which over a long term will make them look like looses , perception being very important in this situation , it is likely to work.


So, if we remove all support from moderates and bomb the countries, this plan is going to make them like us? less inclined to hate us? more reasonable? because the terrorists are going to look like losers? At no point is this plan making any sense at all.

I think we are already trying hard to avoid bombing the Moderates , would you like to finance the Moderates also? They get that , but we make a big show of it and it destroys their credibility .

Killing and capturing and chasing around should be reserved for the immoderate , and even for the immoderate leaving them alone would be nicer , as long as they are moderate enough to avoid shooting our way we don't need to reform them nor shoot them.

What about warfare is supposed to make sense?  Warfare is the reverse of everyones preferred condition, it is naturally a state unfriendly to reason . Trying to conduct war gently is likely to result in greater casualtys than the conduct of war savagely , simply because the more tolerable it is ,the longer it can be withstood , the longer it will last. Counter intuitive results are so common that intuitive thinking is insufficient , actions should be examined with the real result in mind.

The Bombing of Germany during WWII was not intended to make them love us , I can imagine a milder bombing campaign coupled with a rewards program for moderate fascists , I don't imagine this working better .