DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Henny on September 21, 2007, 12:28:37 PM
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Two arrested in noose incident near Jena, Louisiana
ALEXANDRIA, Louisiana (CNN) -- Authorities in Alexandria, Louisiana, arrested two people after nooses were seen hanging from the back of a red pickup Thursday night, the city's mayor told CNN.
"I believe that we've confirmed at least one minor" and one adult were arrested, Mayor Jacques Roy said.
A CNN I-Reporter sent in photo of the truck.
Roy said the incident is "not indicative" of Alexandria and that local authorities will look into the matter "completely, thoroughly and transparently."
Alexandria is less than an hour away from Jena, Louisiana, and was a staging area Thursday for many protesters who went to the smaller town to demonstrate against the treatment of six black teens known as the "Jena 6" in racially charged incidents.
The photograph was sent to CNN by Petty Officer 2nd Class Casanova Love, 26, of the U.S. Navy who is stationed in Hawaii. He's visiting his family in Alexandria.
Love said he was standing outside a club with some friends Thursday night when he saw a red pickup drive by slowly with two nooses hanging from it.
He said the truck continued up the street and passed by a large group of Jena 6 protesters standing outside a bus stop, and was then pulled over by police.
Asked why he decided to send the photo to CNN, Love said, "People need to see this. It's 2007, and we still have fools acting like it's 1960."
(http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/21/car.nooses/art.noose2.irpt.jpg)
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So now it's illegal to own or display a noose?
What's next?
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What's next?
Well, rope. Duh.
"Materials used for constructing a noose."
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Inciting racial violence might be the crime.
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>>Inciting racial violence might be the crime.<<
So if I hang a noose on my car, and nothing happens, am I guilty of this new crime of insighting racial violence?
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So now it's illegal to own or display a noose?
What's next?
I had mixed feelings about this. Obviously, the guy who displayed nooses out of the back of his pickup was at least an asshole, and obviously a racist.
At the same time, I thought that arresting him might have been a bit over the top. He made a public display, but he didn't hurt anyone. If we want to start down this route, what about the debate on flag burning? Again, a display, but unless you wrap someone up in the burning flag, I don't think a person should be arrested for it.
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>>Inciting racial violence might be the crime.<<
So if I hang a noose on my car, and nothing happens, am I guilty of this new crime of insighting racial violence?
It is probably a judgement call left to the officers or the DA. Attempting to incite a riot is by no means a "new crime." It came over to the colonies with British law.
The phrase "read you the Riot Act" was coined from the actual reading of the Riot Act of 1714, which was law in the UK and her colonies. It was one of the first law incorporated into the new United States of America.
So, nothing new there. If you overboard with free speech then you get sent to the bighouse. I'm sure the noose joke will go over well in the shower room.
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So now it's illegal to own or display a noose?
What's next?
I had mixed feelings about this. Obviously, the guy who displayed nooses out of the back of his pickup was at least an asshole, and obviously a racist.
At the same time, I thought that arresting him might have been a bit over the top. He made a public display, but he didn't hurt anyone. If we want to start down this route, what about the debate on flag burning? Again, a display, but unless you wrap someone up in the burning flag, I don't think a person should be arrested for it.
Is the flag burning taking place in a charged atmosphere likely to incite a violent riot?
I think that is the pertinent question. I agree that protected a piece of cloth (likely made in China) through a Constitutional Amendment is beyond ridiculous. But, it becomes dangerous when you start inciting violence.
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>>"Attempting to incite a riot is by no means a "new crime." <<
That's not what you said. You said inciting racial violence. Do you read what you write or do you just ignore it and then lie about it?
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So now it's illegal to own or display a noose?
What's next?
I had mixed feelings about this. Obviously, the guy who displayed nooses out of the back of his pickup was at least an asshole, and obviously a racist.
At the same time, I thought that arresting him might have been a bit over the top. He made a public display, but he didn't hurt anyone. If we want to start down this route, what about the debate on flag burning? Again, a display, but unless you wrap someone up in the burning flag, I don't think a person should be arrested for it.
Is the flag burning taking place in a charged atmosphere likely to incite a violent riot?
I think that is the pertinent question. I agree that protected a piece of cloth (likely made in China) through a Constitutional Amendment is beyond ridiculous. But, it becomes dangerous when you start inciting violence.
I think I would have been more supportive of the arrest if the man drove through Jena - in the middle of the protests - displaying nooses. This was just an asshole an hour away.
I would then also ask, all of the good ol' boys with Confederate Flags on their pickups who are within an hour drive of Jena - should they too be arrested? Certainly African Americans consider the Confederate Flag to be inflammatory.
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>>I had mixed feelings about this. Obviously, the guy who displayed nooses out of the back of his pickup was at least an asshole, and obviously a racist.<<
Yup and yup.
>>At the same time, I thought that arresting him might have been a bit over the top. He made a public display, but he didn't hurt anyone. If we want to start down this route, what about the debate on flag burning? Again, a display, but unless you wrap someone up in the burning flag, I don't think a person should be arrested for it.<<
Agreed. I'm sure if the left had their way they'd put outlaw plenty of things they don't like. Take the Confederate flag. I'm sure they'd love to toss you in the slammer for flying it anywhere. Look out Bo and Luke! If you're looking for real fascism all you have to do is watch the left.
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the noose is legal
he might be using it to kill something for fun
but inciting a riot is not
so the question of intent is what`s going on here
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Noose = threat of lynching (violence)
Confederate flag = Racism, secession (not necessarily violent)
Flag burning = disgust with U.S. actions at home and/or abroad (non-violent)
The Confederate flag and the burning of the U.S. flag can't even remotely be banned from public display, as objectionable as the former may be.
One argument for banning the noose display is that it advocates violence against blacks. At least in the context of what's currently going on in the area. Is it an incitement to the crowd to riot? I think that's stretching it. Hard to see a red-neck punk already inclined to riot and just waiting for the signal before he starts. I think it's more likely to be construed as a threat against blacks - - don't forget what us good Southern whitefolk can do to YOU, niggah. Keep 'em in their place, keep 'em down.
I'd consider it a death threat and I'd charge the owners with uttering death threats. You'll see, nothing will happen to those crackers. It's the South and despite whatever bullshit you hear in this forum from its defenders, it's a whole nuther world down there. As events like Jena continue to demonstrate despite all this "New South" baloney they love to float about.
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>>"Attempting to incite a riot is by no means a "new crime." <<
That's not what you said. You said inciting racial violence. Do you read what you write or do you just ignore it and then lie about it?
Inciting racial violence would be a subsection of inciting a riot.
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>>Inciting racial violence would be a subsection of inciting a riot.<<
Please provide any State statute that has such a subset.
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the noose is legal
he might be using it to kill something for fun
but inciting a riot is not
so the question of intent is what`s going on here
I suppose context is important , anything brandished in such a way as a reasonable person would construe it a death threat might be an assault.
Normally there is nothing threatening about a stick , but one could convert it to a deadly weapon with little change to the stick itself.
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New York Article 240, Offenses against public order.
By the way, the individual in question above was arrested on the charges of DUI and Inciting to Riot.
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Apparently the Louisiana Law is rather simple.
?329.2. Inciting to riot
Inciting to riot is the endeavor by any person to incite or procure any other person to create or participate in a riot.
Acts 1969, No. 176, ?3.
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don`t know about jena
but do I know about new orleans
I have friends who have family there
no matter how race friendly it seems
the N-word is said there quite alot and not by blackfolks alone.
it`s so used often that my friend for aweek kept saying it.
she couldn`t help herself.
I understood
I worked with this texan and for aweek I couldn`t help say the f-word for aweek also
not saying texans swear ,just every single one I know did.
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You could have just said you couldn't do it. Instead you just look foolish.
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When I was in highschool there was this kid they called Snookie that had a passion for tying nooses. He tied the pullcord of every windowshade in the study hall into a noose, he tied the pullcord on every movie screen in the high school into a noose, he could not be around a rope, cord or string without tying it into a noose. During lunch hours he would twist napkins into a rope and tye a noose from it.
He never expressed any desire to hang anyone or anything.
He just liked nooses.
When he graduated he and Wesley Wilson, his sidekick or possibly wheelman, joined the Marines. Wesley weighed 300 lbs, and had to go through basic training twice before he lost 100 lbs and passed. Then they made him a clerk. I never did hear what became of Snookie.
There were several kids with the Stars and Bars front license plates on their cars, but I don't think they meant they supported racism by it. They just wanted to be thought of as "rebels".
About a dozen or so kids in the HS would stand up with their hands over their chests when the band played "Dixie", because it pissed the principal off.
Eventually, the band stopped playing 'Dixie" altogether. But it took three years.
A noose around Jena, LA probably indicates a hostile attitude.
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couldn`t do what?
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>>A noose around Jena, LA probably indicates a hostile attitude.<<
So is a hostile attitude illegal?
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I'd consider it a death threat and I'd charge the owners with uttering death threats. You'll see, nothing will happen to those crackers. It's the South and despite whatever bullshit you hear in this forum from its defenders, it's a whole nuther world down there. As events like Jena continue to demonstrate despite all this "New South" baloney they love to float about.
Hell, if they had been Tasered, you'd be complaining their right to free speech had been violated and the cops were fascist assholes. But this is the south, and everyone knows your opinion about that, so your attitude takes on a new twist.
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Love said he was standing outside a club with some friends Thursday night when he saw a red pickup drive by slowly with two nooses hanging from it.
He said the truck continued up the street and passed by a large group of Jena 6 protesters standing outside a bus stop, and was then pulled over by police.
This could be why someone might have thought there was an attempt to incite a riot. Driving slowly past Jena 6 protesters would certainly appear deliberate rather than, say, just a couple of guys with a noose fetish out for a drive.
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Noose = threat of lynching (violence)
Confederate flag = Racism, secession (not necessarily violent)
Flag burning = disgust with U.S. actions at home and/or abroad (non-violent)
The Confederate flag and the burning of the U.S. flag can't even remotely be banned from public display, as objectionable as the former may be.
One argument for banning the noose display is that it advocates violence against blacks. At least in the context of what's currently going on in the area. Is it an incitement to the crowd to riot? I think that's stretching it. Hard to see a red-neck punk already inclined to riot and just waiting for the signal before he starts. I think it's more likely to be construed as a threat against blacks - - don't forget what us good Southern whitefolk can do to YOU, niggah. Keep 'em in their place, keep 'em down.
I'd consider it a death threat and I'd charge the owners with uttering death threats. You'll see, nothing will happen to those crackers. It's the South and despite whatever bullshit you hear in this forum from its defenders, it's a whole nuther world down there. As events like Jena continue to demonstrate despite all this "New South" baloney they love to float about.
Actually, what took place was amended social behavior because of sixty thousand new negroes in town.
What it also shows is that the police themselves admit the effect the symbol has on the Blacks, or what could possibly be the motivation for subduing the potential by pinching the punks NOW, in the middle of all this yankee fomentin'.
What have these deputies done before there were all those negroes in town?
Why . . . nothing.
You in Louisiana now.
Malcolm!? Are you hearing it, Malcolm? Your brothers and sisters stood up, in spite of Whitey telling them there was 'no reason to be in town, no reason at all.'
This is a good thing for America.
Hat's off, Blacks, hats off.
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I don't think a hostile attitude is illegal, but if it is the job of police to ensure the public safety, and they can do this by talking awhile with the guys in the pickup truck that are dredging their nooses around town, then that is valid.
The whole thing, both the huge number of Blacks coming to Jena from out of town and the noose freaks, are akin to dogs peeing on trees to mark their territory. And about as useful.
I would not approve of them tasering or cuffing said clowns, by the way.
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More background;
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/21/158237&mode=thread&tid=25
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070918_tipping_the_scales_of_justice_in_jena/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20070919/cm_huffpost/065010
Xavier,
Are you saying that you don't think that public demonstrations are useful?
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I am saying that I don't think that this particular demonstration is all that useful. If it results in a reasonable punishment (perhaps suspension from a year of school for all those who fought over the tree and nooses, both white and black), then maybe.
The Blacks have a right to have any sort of peaceful demonstration in Jena they wish.
The noosebearers have less a right to threaten them, being as a noose is hardly a valid way of advocating that Whites stand up for their rights. Rights do not include lynching or hanging.
Sometimes marking territory can be useful. Personally, I would stay out of this if I lived in Jena or even if I were Black.
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This is the Deep South, and [older] black people know the meaning of a noose. Let me tell you something?young people don?t.?
uhm
I think I just read almost a dozen articles on this subject,not once did any of them say what`s the meaning of a noose is.
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I don't think a hostile attitude is illegal, but if it is the job of police to ensure the public safety, and they can do this by talking awhile with the guys in the pickup truck that are dredging their nooses around town, then that is valid.
The whole thing, both the huge number of Blacks coming to Jena from out of town and the noose freaks, are akin to dogs peeing on trees to mark their territory. And about as useful.
I would not approve of them tasering or cuffing said clowns, by the way.
Wonders who introduced the word "hostile" in this thread.
All of a sudden, it is the password and the litmus.
I have not bothered to take umbrage with those who have criticized protesting, since it becomes moot when you have to explain what protesting includes, and that no successful protesting was ever done so by playing with Reader's Digest rules. In a debate, though, nobody's bones get broken (though egos walk the plank), and it becomes simply a parsing of the immediate territory around the decisive if movable litmus term "hostile."
I was a lad in the coal fields, on the street with the town, while on the other side--the cops and the mine owners and the out-to-town thugs they hired overnight, who were hellbent to destroy any union effort at any cost. Over in West Virginia, the mine owners ran a train loaded with thugs hired off the Pittburgh streets, all issued a basebat, to help influence the locals' notion of a union.
To this day I have yet to encounter any action or tactic quite as hostile as those of Peabody Coal Company.
Guess we come from different worlds.
Meanwhile, over in La., the deputies are hiding more of the embarassing good ole boys while the Blacks are well dressed, well behaved, wearing new T Shirts which read: "we are getting tired of all this prejudice," thereby winning the high road trophy at the expense of the local dixified deputies.
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so would a baseball bat be offensive in a mining town?
if you think about it.
it should,since it`s used in so many iconic beat downs
but unlike a noose it has other purposes.