Second Amendment right to revolution?

[Universe Prince]

From a National Journal article, available at Reason Online, by Jonathan Rauch:

The second reason, by contrast, strikes modern Americans as archaic, if not embarrassing: States' armed populations could resist and overthrow a tyrannical central government, acting as an insurrectionary militia--much as Americans had recently done in overthrowing British rule. That may have made sense in 1790, but today the insurrectionary rationale would seem to imply a right to keep and bear surface-to-air missiles and grenade launchers, among other things.

I'm not sure why this would be embarrassing. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Is it not? Tell me why.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

does to me too
otherwise why are tyrants always so anxious to disarm the population even in non-war times?
because tyrants know a well armed citizenry is dangerous to their undemocratic goals
imo it's as true today as it was in the 1700's

[Universe Prince]

So no one disagrees? Huh.

[fatman]

That's always been my interpretation UP.  The founding fathers didn't want this project that they had started to turn into a monster or revert to a monarchy, so they (in my opinion) enshrined the right of the people to change that government, by peaceful means and by violence.

[Universe Prince]

I think so too, but I had guessed that someone would be sure to object to the notion that the Second Amendment protects someone's right to own grenade launchers or machine guns or anti-tank weapons or the like. I guessed wrong. Oh well.

[Lanya]

If we, the people, are the government....then we are going to need to roust malingering tyrants every once in awhile. 

[Plane]

I feel my right to own a M-2 heavy machine gun is being infringed.

[fatman]

I feel my right to own a M-2 heavy machine gun is being infringed.

It probably is.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Let us suppose that everyone decided that we needed to eliminate the president and VP.  We could further assume that the Pres and VP knew that most of the people wanted to remove them with extreme prejudice, and were prepared.

What would be the smallest weapon that would be required?

I am guessing it would take something more deadly than a 22-caliber weapon, some M-80's and cherry bombs.

I am thinking that the "less is more" theories of Don Rumsfeld would tend to be rather deadly to the insurrectionists.

Perhaps this is the sort of weapon the Supremes should consider we had the right to own.

[Amianthus]

What would be the smallest weapon that would be required?

In the hands of a skilled shooter, a .30 rifle is amazing.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I do not own a gun, lest someone like Rich, who has expressed a desire to "put a bullet in my head", wrest it from me and do his thing.
So I was just asking.

We might need Jason Bourne to fire said weapon.

[Amianthus]

We might need Jason Bourne to fire said weapon.

I got a friend in Baltimore that practices shooting at 100yds - with a 5 yard target. The bulls eye is about the size of a pencil eraser and he'll hit it 4 times out of 5. And never more than 1/4" off the bulls eye.

[fatman]

In the hands of a skilled shooter, a .30 rifle is amazing.

There's a lot of variation in the ballistics and accuracy of .30 caliber rifles.  A .30-06, .30-40 Krag, 30-30, and .308 Win all have varying capabilities of range, accuracy, and foot poundage.  Any of those would be sufficient to kill a person, and all of the above calibers listed above have been used by soldiers in war, with the exception of the .30-30.

A 22 caliber rifle also has a wide variation, a .22 rimfire or .22 magnum is not the same thing as a .22-250 or .223, which are notoriously accurate calibers.

[Amianthus]

There's a lot of variation in the ballistics and accuracy of .30 caliber rifles.  A .30-06, .30-40 Krag, 30-30, and .308 Win all have varying capabilities of range, accuracy, and foot poundage.

My personal favorite is the .303 British, but I was actually thinking of the .30-06. That's probably the most common .30 caliber rifle.

You want sheer power in addition to accuracy out of a rifle bullet? Try the .45-70 or .45-90. ;-)

[Xavier_Onassis]

Carabina 30-30:

Carabina treinta treinta
Que los rebeldes portaban;
Y dec?an los maderistas
Que con ella no mataban.


Con mi treinta treinta me voy a marchar
A engrosar las filas de la rebeli?n
Si mi sangre piden mi sangre les doy
Por los explotados de nuestra naci?n.

It seems to have been adequate in 1910-1921.