DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: R.R. on April 12, 2008, 10:08:17 AM
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You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing?s replaced them?And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow[/youtube]
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It looks like we're seeing Obama and his wife for what they truly are; angry Black people, with a large dose of liberal elitism for good measure. I'm willing to say right now that Obama can't win in the general election. He's be shown for the elitist angry ultra liberal her is. But then Senator McCain seems to think pointing that out might be mean spirited and unfair.
God help us, John McCain is our candidate ... :(
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You know, this will not get me invited over for dinner at the Michael Savage home, but I don't see Obama as much angry, as naive. And that's actually more dangerous, as President. If it weren't for the egregiously terrible Presidency of Carter, we might not have anything close to our current threat of Islamofascism. We likely wouldn't have had the Ayatollah Khamenei, we likely wouldn't have had Saddam in power. I mean, his completely ignorant and naive foreign policy could be argued as the primary reason the Islamic world is what it is today. Just my opinion, but Obama's naivety towards our enemies appears to be on par with Carter's
And that's not just scary, it's downright dangerous
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God, every time I hear about some kind of horrible and terrible thing that Obama is to have uttered, I check it out. And not just every once in a while but EVERY time, it turns out that it is something that is absolutely true and speaking to the heart of Americans who just want to live their lives and resolve issues rather than argue of who is to blame or whether or not it plays to those watching on tv.
And it seems like those who post or comment or editorialize or run their damn jabberjaws on tv about Obama and his alleged gaffs are the ones who are NOT interested in resolving issues or conflicts because it doesn't involve them or their team or their god damned paycheck winning.
The only thing that is left for those types is go nuclear and try to take Obama down in any way they can. They continue to try and paint him as some kind of extremist who doesn't seem to understand the world at large but, in fact, the opposite is true. They're only hope is to push him over the edge by continuing to throw shit at him. Throw the kitchen sink at him till he breaks and makes some unbelievable gaff. And that, to the loser assholes will seem like a win to them.
Obama has actually been out of the US of A before taking office (unlike W). He knows what it is like to be at the end of one's rope and come back from the brink.
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>>He knows what it is like to be at the end of one's rope and come back from the brink.<<
What the hell are you talking about?
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God, every time I hear about some kind of horrible and terrible thing that Obama is to have uttered, I check it out. And not just every once in a while but EVERY time, it turns out that it is something that is absolutely true and speaking to the heart of Americans who just want to live their lives and resolve issues rather than argue of who is to blame or whether or not it plays to those watching on tv.
I so much feel your pain ,I have the same experience every time I hear about some kind of horrible and terrible thing that President Bush is to have uttered, I check it out. And not just every once in a while but EVERY time, it turns out that it is something that is absolutely true and speaking to the heart of Americans who just want to live their lives and resolve issues rather than argue of who is to blame or whether or not it plays to those watching on tv.
Still if every "gotcha" is exploited to the maximum it can be gullible people become the swing vote.
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Obama's comments give Clinton an Opening (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080413/D900LRNG0.html)
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Odds are pretty good Obama is the next president.
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Newt weighs in on Obama's outrageous comments:
If you go to the most expensive private school in Hawaii and then move on to Columbia University and Harvard Law School, you may not understand normal Americans. Their beliefs are so alien to your leftwing viewpoint that you have to seek some psychological explanation for what seem to be weird ideas.
They can't really believe in the right to bear arms.
They can't really believe in traditional marriage.
They can't really believe in their faith in God.
They can't really want to enforce the law on immigration.
Therefore, they must be "bitter" and "frustrated."
This is the closest Senator Obama has come to openly sharing his wife's view that "America is a mean country." Not since Governor Dukakis have we seen anyone so out of touch with normal Americans. It makes perfect sense that it was in a fundraiser in San Francisco that he would have shared the views he has so carefully kept hidden for the entire campaign.
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The smartest thing McCain is doing right now is staying above the fray.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080413/ap_on_el_pr/obama_clinton
A lot of Democrats are still saying that these remarks are "true " but poorly phrased , this attitude is self inflicted harm.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080413/ap_on_el_pr/obama_clinton
A lot of Democrats are still saying that these remarks are "true " but poorly phrased , this attitude is self inflicted harm.
It's not poorly phrased.
It's apt, I tell you, apt!
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So we are to assume that there are no people at all in small towns in dead-end situations that are not bitter who do not turn to churches and guns for consolation and who do not blame illegal immigrants for their plights?
Of course this is true. No one is telling anyone what to believe, though. It was a correct observation that Obama made.
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It isn't true that the reason for the second admendment and Churches is bitterness caused by economic hardship, but if you think that this is a winning theisis for a campaign then by all means continue to expound on the subject.
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I hardly think that anything anyone says here will have any impact on the election.
Obama was right about what he said. He didn't intend it for public consumption.
South Park has a pair of these deadend bitter types in the characters of Jimbo and his pal, the Vietnam Vet with the electric voicebox. The local preachers and priests and their South Park congregations are pretty much typical of this as well
It isn't ever going to be a major issue.
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Obama was right about what he said. He didn't intend it for public consumption.
So, he just intended the insult to those he expects to vote for him to remain private? Is that actually better?
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I fail to see where it is even an insult.
People are frustrated and bitter, they turn to religion and guns as a result.
It is not an insult unless intended as such.
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So, if I happen to insult someone(s)....as long as I didn't intend to, it's perfectly ok. Gotcha
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I fail to see where it is even an insult.
So, if I told someone you were frustrated and bitter, you would not consider it an insult?
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I fail to see where it is even an insult.
So, if I told someone you were frustrated and bitter, you would not consider it an insult?
As long as you didn't intend it to be an insult
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So, if I told someone you were frustrated and bitter, you would not consider it an insult?
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Obama was not addressing any specific individual, just the frustrated and bitter ones.
If I say "there are too many stupid drivers in Florida", does this insult everyone who drives in Florida?
Also, if I were frustrated and bitter, I don't think I'd be offended.
So to be offended, I would have to believe he was talking about me, and I was frustrated and bitter and in a state of denial.
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If I say "there are too many stupid drivers in Florida", does this insult everyone who drives in Florida?
If you're trying to court the driving voters of Florida to vote for you, you can bet quite a few will consider it an insult to them.
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If you're trying to court the driving voters of Florida to vote for you, you can bet quite a few will consider it an insult to them.
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Being as there are actually a great many stupid drivers here, I say this often, and everyone agrees that not only are there many stupid drivers here, but that there are more than elsewhere.
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So we are to assume that there are no people at all in small towns in dead-end situations that are not bitter who do not turn to churches and guns for consolation and who do not blame illegal immigrants for their plights?
Of course this is true. No one is telling anyone what to believe, though. It was a correct observation that Obama made.
Gun sales hit an all time high during the Clinton administration , those times of desprate financial bitterness.
On the other hand , if hard times lead people to God then God bless the hard times, a relationship with God is better than fat.
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So we are to assume that there are no people at all in small towns in dead-end situations that are not bitter who do not turn to churches and guns for consolation and who do not blame illegal immigrants for their plights?
Of course this is true. No one is telling anyone what to believe, though. It was a correct observation that Obama made.
Gun sales hit an all time high during the Clinton administration , those times of desprate financial bitterness. On the other hand , if hard times lead people to God then God bless the hard times, a relationship with God is better than fat.
God and Guns
The only healthy way to fly.
By Mark Steyn
Our lesson today comes from the songwriter Frank Loesser: ?Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition.?
Or as Barack Obama and his San Francisco pals would put it: God and guns. Loesser got the phrase from Howell Forgy, a naval chaplain at Pearl Harbor, who walked the decks of the New Orleans under Japanese bombardment exhorting his comrades. When the line came to Loesser?s ears, he turned it into a big hit song of the Second World War:
Praise the Lord and swing into position
Can?t afford to sit around a-wishin??
? which some folks sang as ?Can?t afford to be a politician.? Indeed. Senator Obama?s remarks about poor dumb bitter rural losers ?clinging to? guns and God certainly testify to the instinctive snobbery of a big segment of the political class. But we shouldn?t let it go by merely deploring coastal condescension toward the knuckledraggers. No, what Michelle Malkin calls Crackerquiddick (quite rightly ? it?s more than just another dreary ?-gate?) is not just snobbish nor even merely wrongheaded. It?s an attack on two of the critical advantages the U.S. holds over most of the rest of the western world. In the other G7 developed nations, nobody clings to God?n?guns. The guns got taken away, and the Europeans gave up on churchgoing once they embraced Big Government as the new religion.
How?s that working out? Compared to America, France and Germany have been more or less economically stagnant for the last quarter-century, living permanently with unemployment rates significantly higher than the U.S.
Has it made them any less ?bitter,? as Obama characterizes those Pennsylvanian crackers? No. In my book America Alone, just out in paperback and available in all good bookstores ? you?ll find it in Borders propping up the wonky rear leg of the display table for the smash new CD Michelle Obama And The San Francisco Macchiato Chorus Sing ?I Pinned My Pink Slip To The Gun Rack Of My Pick-Up?, ?My Dog Done Died, My Wife Jus? Left Me, And Michael Dukakis Is Strangely Reluctant To Run Again?, Plus ?I Swung By The Economic Development Zone Business Park But The Only Two Occupied Rental Units Were Both Evangelical Churches? And Other Embittered Appalachian Favorites ?
Where was I? Oh, yes. In my book America Alone, I note a global survey on optimism: 61 per cent of Americans were optimistic about the future, 29 per cent of the French, 15 per cent of Germans. Take it from a foreigner: In my experience, Americans are the least ?bitter? people in the developed world. Secular gun-free big-government Europe doesn?t seem to have done anything for people?s happiness. Consider by way of example the words of Keith Reade. He?s not an Obama speechwriter, he?s a writer for the London Daily Mirror. And the day after the 2004 presidential election he expressed his frustration in an alarmingly Obamaesque way:
Were I a Kerry voter, though, I?d feel deep anger, not only at them returning Bush to power, but for allowing the outside world to lump us all into the same category of moronic muppets. The self-righteous, gun-totin?, military-lovin?, sister-marryin?, abortion-hatin?, gay-loathin?, foreigner-despisin?, non-passport ownin? red-necks, who believe God gave America the biggest d*** in the world so it could urinate on the rest of us and make their land ?free and strong.?
Well, that?s certainly why I supported Bush, but I?m not sure it entirely accounts for the other 62,039,073 incontinent rednecks. Mr Reade, though, does usefully enumerate some of the distinctive features that separate America from the rest of the west. ?Self-righteous?? If you want a public culture that reeks of indestructible faith in its own righteousness, try Europe ? especially when they?re talking about America: If you disagree with Eutopian wisdom, you must be an idiot. Obama and far too many Democrats have bought into this delusion, most thoroughly distilled in Thomas Frank?s book What?s The Matter With Kansas?, whose argument is that heartland voters are too dumb (i.e., ?moronic muppets?) to vote for their own best interests.
Europeans did ?vote for their own best interests? ? i.e., cradle-to-grave welfare, 35 hour work-weeks, six weeks of paid vacation, etc ? and as a result they now face a perfect storm of unsustainable entitlements, economic stagnation, and declining human capital that?s left them so demographically beholden to unassimilable levels of immigration that they?re being remorselessly Islamized with every passing day. We should thank God (if you?ll forgive the expression) that America?s loser gun-nuts don?t share the same sophisticated rational calculation of ?their best interests? as Thomas Frank, Obama, too many Democrats and the European political establishment.
As for ?gun-totin?,? large numbers of Americans tote guns because they?re assertive, self-reliant citizens, not docile subjects of a permanent governing class. The Second Amendment is philosophically consistent with the First Amendment, for which I?ve become more grateful since the Canadian Islamic Congress decided to sue me for ?hate speech? up north. Both amendments embody the American view that liberty is not the gift of the state, and its defense cannot be outsourced exclusively to the government.
I think a healthy society needs both God and guns: it benefits from a belief in some kind of higher purpose to life on earth, and it requires a self-reliant citizenry. If you lack either of those twin props, you wind up with today?s Europe ? a present-tense Eutopia mired in fatalism. A while back, I was struck by the words of Oscar van den Boogaard, a Dutch gay humanist (which is pretty much the trifecta of Eurocool). Reflecting on the Continent?s accelerating Islamification, he concluded that the jig was up for the Europe he loved, but what could he do? ?I am not a warrior, but who is?? he shrugged. ?I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only good at enjoying it.?
Sorry, it doesn?t work like that. If you don?t understand that there are times when you?ll have to fight for it, you won?t enjoy it for long. That?s what a lot of Keith Reade?s laundry list ? ?gun-totin?,? ?military-lovin?? ? boils down to. As for ?gay-loathin,?? it?s Oscar van den Boogaard?s famously tolerant Amsterdam where gay-bashing is resurgent: the editor of the American gay paper the Washington Blade got beaten up in the streets on his last visit to the Netherlands.
God and guns. Maybe one day a viable society will find a magic cure-all that can do without both, but Big Government isn?t it. And even complacent liberal Democrats ought to be able to cast an eye across the ocean and see that. But then he did give the speech in San Francisco, a city demographically declining at a rate that qualifies it for EU membership. When it comes to parochial simpletons, you don?t need to go to Kansas.
God & Guns (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2RjNzdlMjczZmU0MDdiZDVhMzY0ZmFiZTRlZDJjZDc=)
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I think a healthy society needs both God and guns: it benefits from a belief in some kind of higher purpose to life on earth, and it requires a self-reliant citizenry. If you lack either of those twin props, you wind up with today?s Europe ? a present-tense Eutopia mired in fatalism. A while back, I was struck by the words of Oscar van den Boogaard, a Dutch gay humanist (which is pretty much the trifecta of Eurocool). \\
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The reason Europe needs to import Muslims as laborers is the low birthrate among Europeans. This is not in any way due to a lack of guns.
People could have more children with or without guns. Owning a gun has nothing to do with self reliance. Very very few Americans eat only what they hunt and shoot.