DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: modestyblase on April 13, 2007, 12:30:23 PM
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You are warned that this will be vulgar and unrefined. I'll be drafting it tonight to submit to various news stations, the coach of the basketball team, etc...Certainly, I'll be dialing back the anger.
SO I *knew* turning on the news would render not intelligent media attention to the burgeoning african issues, most notably mugambe, or even the trade issues that are happening with and to china. Of course not! Certainly there is a reason I maintain my expensive subscriptions the Economist and the Spectator.
Instead of the waste of time known as the anna nicole coverage, we are now treated with "IMUS IS A RACST SEXIST PIG" coverage.
And to top this character assasination is MSNBC's and CBS's termination of his employment What the living hell is going on anymore? When has Imus every been anything but demeaning, harsh, and derogatory? He's made rude quips about every race, religion, etc. over the years. So he calls a basketball team "nappy" and "hos"?
SHAME ON YOU for being offended by that, you phonies.
HOW DARE YOU make a big deal out of something that DOESN'T WARRANT ATTENTION OR CREDIBILITY. In a world with as many problems as this one has, SHAME ON YOU for being such TRASH that you focus on this. GEE WERE THIS ENERGY GOING TO UNDERSTANDING THE FUNDAMENTAL(not feel-good, but fundamental) ISSUES FACING THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, OR THE
HARM OF GLOBALISATION, OR THE ISSUE OF UNITED STATES MERCENARY-BASED TERRORISM, WE COULD HAVE THIS WORLD ON THE RIGHT TRACK IN A YEAR! No joke, we really could.
But I digress.
The most alarming thing about this nonsense is that the girls on the Rutgers Basketball team should be celebrating their apparently ground breaking victory. INSTEAD they are being used as pawns to attack ONE MAN. It is despicable that they are being used in such a manner, and atrocious that no one is calling the coach, the black community, the politically correct idiots, and the media on this. Shame on all of you.
FURTHERMORE, WHAT DON IMUS SAID IS NOTHING THAT ISN'T OR HASN'T BEEN SAID "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS", as the saying goes. I live in Dallas, with all of its racial tension, and do enjoy the charms of successful older gentlemen; some of whom say far more unkind things than Imus said when they see really ungroomed individuals. If you knew what sucessful black men and women think of their ghetto brethren you would be shocked.
ALSO-you know, the entire basketball team isn't black. SHOCK, AWE! Certainly I cannot be the only one who has noticed.
Now on Imus specifically: IF YOU DON'T WATCH HIS SHOW WHY DO YOU CARE? WHY? GIVE ME A RESPECTABLE ANSWER THAT IS NOT VIOLATORY OF FREE SPEECH OR HIS LIBERTY TO BE AN ASS, AND I MAY LISTEN. Truthfully, I cannot STAND Imus. I think he is a rude republican asshole. I respect all that he does for charities(which btw all these p.c. people have interrupted, as he had a charity drive coming up-how irrespectable), and thats about all I know about him. But NO ONE should have to suffer because a collective of people display "fake outrage" over a NON ISSUE. "Freedom of speech is wonderful - right up there with the freedom not to listen" has apparently gone the way of the tenth amendment. EVERYONE who is displaying "outrage" over something as meaningless as WORDS(words lacking intent, at that) is not better than Dubya, his administration, and all others who play into putting limits on liberty.
This is a glaring and despicable example of liberal censorship. At least the republicans are up front when they censor. The liberals trick you into feeling guilty and prompt you to censor yourself.
Now to further play Devil's Advocate: Show me one member of the Rutger's basketball team who was well-groomed. Just one. If you can find one that can form complete sentences, articulate well, and properly enunciate the word "ask" you get extra points.
On a recent(or maybe not so recent) episode of Boston Legal, the character Alan Shore brought up a quote by Judge Learned Hand(an intriguing fellow-he somehow escaped me all these years, and his background and opinions are thos of an impressive man):
"Liberty lies in our hearts, and once it dies there, no constitution can save it." Everyone viciously attacking Imus has no liberty in their hearts; and perhaps that is why I am most angry. This is a damning example of just how little liberty lies in the heart of collective America.
Shame on everyone in this country.
Because when all is said and done, his right to be an ass remains, and *you* have all supported infringing on it.
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I take it you're a stupid person.
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A few things.
the Rutgers Basketball team should be celebrating their apparently ground breaking victory
My alma-mater the University of Tennessee won the game and the national championship, not Rutgers (they actually lost). If anything the whole ordeal took a lot of sportswriter attention away from Coach Pat Summit and the Lady Vols. Also, I think that the Rutgers coach has handled herself very well with this issue.
most notably mugambe
It is 'Mugabe', I'm not a spelling nutter, but you said you were going to send it out as a letter.
This is a glaring and despicable example of liberal censorship.
Actually, the decisions were made at a corporate level and also by corporate sponsors of the show. I'm not sure how that is equated to "liberal" in the American sense of the term.
over something as meaningless as WORDS
Right! Go to Memphis and shout some of those "WORDS" as you walk down the streets and see just how "meaningless" they are. I'd be careful to push the philosophy of the mere abstractness of words here.
Show me one member of the Rutger's basketball team who was well-groomed. Just one. If you can find one that can form complete sentences, articulate well, and properly enunciate the word "ask" you get extra points.
Interesting that words went from being meaningless to having proper pronunciations. Regardless, find me a Southerner (including myself) who can say the words 'pen' and 'pin' with proper distinction (or 'gym' and 'gem'). Who cares? Beauty is subjective and why should women be expected to wear makeup and get their hair done before playing a basketball game? We are talking about an athletic competition where the player's goal is to win the game. Perhaps one of the women on the boards can explain why sports bras, tying hair back, and other practicalities of performing in athletics don't lend themselves to western standards of beauty. I think you and Imus might be confusing basketball with a beauty pageant.
Shame on everyone in this country.
Self-righteous claptrap. It sounds like the last few years of M*A*S*H when you just wanted to punch Alan Alda in the nose and hear a decent joke.
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I take it that you're a backslapping politically correct censorist. I haven't been in the forum for awhile, domer, I forget your stance(s), inclinations, etc.
Arm tired yet?
I stand firm on my stance on Imus. He was saying what many, many, many successful men say "behind closed doors", regardless of race. I don't approve of insults, necessarily, but I also do not approve of the ridiculous amount of credibility given to a man notorious for playing the crotchety old white guy. The collective relieving of personal guilt through the attack of a man who does a great amount of good, decent, charitable work is appalling.
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<<Liberty lies in our hearts, and once it dies there, no constitution can save it." Everyone viciously attacking Imus has no liberty in their hearts; and perhaps that is why I am most angry. This is a damning example of just how little liberty lies in the heart of collective America.>>
Bullshit. Where is this so-called liberty in your hearts that died the day Imus was fired? Did it exist for hard-core pornographers? Did it exist for neo-Nazi skinheads? Were they given the same platform that Imus was given? The same access to American homes?
<<GEE WERE THIS ENERGY GOING TO UNDERSTANDING THE FUNDAMENTAL(not feel-good, but fundamental) ISSUES FACING THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, OR THE
HARM OF GLOBALISATION, OR THE ISSUE OF UNITED STATES MERCENARY-BASED TERRORISM, WE COULD HAVE THIS WORLD ON THE RIGHT TRACK IN A YEAR! No joke, we really could.>>
Well then don't worry, in a month everyone will have forgotten about Imus and then all their Imus-energy can be focused on those fundamental issues and the world will be on the right track in just another year. Whew!
<<INSTEAD they [the team] are being used as pawns to attack ONE MAN. It is despicable that they are being used in such a manner, and atrocious that no one is calling the coach, the black community, the politically correct idiots, and the media on this. Shame on all of you.>>
Huh. Maybe I got this wrong. Did THEY attack Imus or did Imus attack THEM? This is hilarious. The black community are the victims of the attack, so what 's this? Attack the victim day? And the coach, the "politically correct idiots" and the media are defending the victims - - is this also attack the defenders of the victims day? What's next? Attack the Holocaust victims and the anti-Nazis who use them as pawns? Brilliant. Not.
<<FURTHERMORE, WHAT DON IMUS SAID IS NOTHING THAT ISN'T OR HASN'T BEEN SAID "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS", as the saying goes. >>
Great. Now he'll be re-hired for sure. I bet there are closet Nazis who could recite Mein Kampf verbatim "behind closed doors." Guess that makes Nazis OK too.
<<I live in Dallas . . . >>
Ahhhh. Now I understand. Thank you for writing.
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Yes, stupid.
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_JS: Actually, yes, there are several men and women in the south who can properly say "pen" and "pin". In regards to the resounding number who cannot, it is still a far cry from the mangling of "ask" into "akst".
I was speaking of the Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugambe. I, perhaps, should have clarified this.
I disagree that she has handled herself well. Surely, though, she has enjoyed her fifteen minutes. Any accomplishments those girls had were not undermined by Imus' comments, they were undermined by the unrelenting media and the coach. They may be "too young" and "lack a public outlet"(both arguments fall on their face, they actually had very impressive outlets), but they are also to young to realize when they are being manipulated.
As for the "advertisers pulled out and so it was a business decision" argument-that is a joke. No savvy media analyst would pull the plug on a popular show without allowing bounce-back time, the most obvious example being Politically Incorrect. Certainly what Bill Maher said frightened advertisers, and ABC allowed for a substantial bounce back period-he never recovered, and they let him go. Imus would have been able to do what Maher could not-pull back his conservative base and gain advertising dollars again. Furthermore, the president of NBC even said it was a matter of moral/symbolic issues(in the most phony and self-aggrandizing manner I have seen in some time), alluding to staffers making sentiments along the lines of "Gee, I can think of how I'd feel if someone said that about my child".
Words are meaningless. Only you can personally contorl their power over you. I worked in corporate america longer than I cared to admit. I was never willing to dress down or think down and as such was ostracized by nearly all women, and a decent amount of men. I've been called more names and have been attacked verbally many times over. After awhile, I realized it was the shortcomings of others that prompted their words, and for the last seven years I've remained largely unaffected.
Also, I would say there is a difference between meanings and the assaignation of meaning in words, and their actual linguistic mechanics.
Yes, its self righteous. I'm getting sick of oversensitivity, and have been since the 90's. Maybe it's the effects of playing hard in a man's world, but man-alive: Grow up already(not necessarily directed towards you, but the general citizenry).
MichaelTee: "Bullshit. Where is this so-called liberty in your hearts that died the day Imus was fired? Did it exist for hard-core pornographers? Did it exist for neo-Nazi skinheads? Were they given the same platform that Imus was given? The same access to American homes?"
You will have to clarify. Too many presumptions can be pulled as to what you mean. To answer as I see it, yes: Hardcore pornographers can do as they wish. I can choose to validate them or not. Skinheads can exist. I can choose to ignore them or not. The issue of platform is a seperate argument, and one to tokenly liberal to bother addressing.
"Well then don't worry, in a month everyone will have forgotten about Imus and then all their Imus-energy can be focused on those fundamental issues and the world will be on the right track in just another year. Whew!"
You have taken my words out of context. The Imus issue is but one of many that people focus on and put incredible energy into-others being OTHER race issues, abortion, marriage-that prevent and hinder any real progress.
They attacked Imus. I could care less about what he says, I could care less about anything anyone says. It only gains credibility when it becomes something productive(do not confuse that with positive in the sense of happy joy no offense). If this is a "black issue" than it is only a "black issue" by their own instigation. Not to belabor the obvious any further, but it does speak of a low collective self-esteem to hear the words "nappy ho's" and immediately consider race as opposed to gender.
Now on vicitmization: I am SO SICK of the amounts of people who use their victim-as-the-victimizer status to destroy and control. I really can't narrow down which group owns the "victim" patent, but this society is being destroyed by this. We've already been the ONLY NATION in HISTORY to continually lower our standards academically and socially to allow groups of people to "rise above", and it has never been to any good end. Using the victim-victimizer arguments onyl prolongs and validates such a sad turn of events.
And so, Michael Tee, perhaps we can hold you as a bastion of all good and decent and proper; surely, you have never uttered any insult or degradation, or thought one, ever, at any point, in your life. Were we all so immune to being human!
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Actually, yes, there are several men and women in the south who can properly say "pen" and "pin". In regards to the resounding number who cannot, it is still a far cry from the mangling of "ask" into "akst".
Why is it different?
I was speaking of the Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugambe. I, perhaps, should have clarified this.
I know. His name is Robert Gabriel Mugabe. He was a one time friend of Joshua Nkomo, but they had a falling out and he led ZANU after a leadership squabble with Ndabaningi Sithole. I'm rather sure we are talking about the same person, but I am equally sure that he spells his name without any 'm.'
Any accomplishments those girls had were not undermined by Imus' comments, they were undermined by the unrelenting media and the coach.
That does not change the fact that Rutgers did not win!
As for the "advertisers pulled out and so it was a business decision" argument-that is a joke.
It may be humorous, but it does not change the fact that advertisers did remove their support.
Words are meaningless.
Then it is truly remarkable that we are able to reply to one another's posts ;)
I'm getting sick of oversensitivity, and have been since the 90's. Maybe it's the effects of playing hard in a man's world, but man-alive: Grow up already(not necessarily directed towards you, but the general citizenry).
But the other side of the coin is that, isn't it telling that American society is willing to listen to people like Imus, Stern, Limbaugh, etc? I mean, as opposed to listening to decent and sensible people?
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;D I realize Rutgers did not win(only after you informed me, however, so you are right in that it took the limelight off a group of girls far more deserving); thats why I said "any accomplishments".
&you are correct on the Mugabe misspelling. I'll chalk it up to a blonde moment.
I maintain that issues of dialect are different than issues of enunciation. Bostonians pahrtay as opposed to party. A drawl is not the same thing as being unable to properly enunciate. In fact, it is such an issue that the law firm my best friend works for fired someone for not going to a diction coach to fix their enunciation issues. Yet, the lawyers that drawl(or, shudder-inducing as it is, twang) can still say "ask", it may sound more like "ayesk"(i'm trying, work with me here) or "ahsk" but it still fits the rules of enunciation.
As for the advertising thing, again: anyone smart, paying attention to business and not the "moral"/"racial" aspect of this issue, would have granted someone as popular as Imus the bounce back period to see if in fact he could do it. After all, ABC did let Bill Maher go(longer than was sound, at that).
"Then it is truly remarkable that we are able to reply to one another's posts" Pish :P
"But the other side of the coin is that, isn't it telling that American society is willing to listen to people like Imus, Stern, Limbaugh, etc? I mean, as opposed to listening to decent and sensible people?"
Yes, it is very telling indeed. I am opposed to it(which is why I watch MSNBC, Maher and such for entertainment and not for anything I consider "serious" news, and stick to the Economist, Spectator, Foreign Affairs, etc for "real" news), and have long maintained that the casualization that occured last century-the source of this casualization tends to be a debatable topic of its own-coupled with lowering standards that have progressively gone lower and lower is a big factor as to why what once remained respectably behind closed doors is now showing its ugly face out in the open.
It reminds me of something a good friend who happens to be jewish told me when I asked why he would rip apart Israel "behind closed doors" but get outraged when it was mentioned in public debate: "You know, our history is a sensitive issue. When you politicize something so deeply personal to us, to me, I have every right to be outraged."
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Hmm.
He's rich, he is not going to be hurting from lack of funds.
It's what happens when someone goes too far. And he did. I felt horrible for those girls. I've got neighbors who are black. Their daughters are on baseball and basketball teams, and are lovely and talented girls. I kept thinking, what if someone attacked my neighbor's girls like that? Or my sons? It got personal, and personal attacks by someone in power are wrong.
This was an attack on a certain team of girls, not public figures who get attacked all the time, but private citizens who are going to a very good college, are smart and good athletes. They didn't do anything wrong. Imus did. Case closed.
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Looks like in the end the only ones to suffer will be the recipients of Imus's charities. Many of them minorities themselves
Ah yes, the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head.
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That is a huge shame.
A shame he could have prevented had he thought about it, and balanced how important the charities were to him and more importantly, to the recipients.
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That is a huge shame.
A shame he could have prevented had he thought about it, and balanced how important the charities were to him and more importantly, to the recipients.
And it's also a shame that people would crucify him for one stupid comment.
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That is a huge shame.
A shame he could have prevented had he thought about it, and balanced how important the charities were to him and more importantly, to the recipients.
I'm sure the children will understand. Perhaps as they age they will understand the importance of symbolism and maybe even one day feel the warm glow of blood on the fangs sanctimony.
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Very weird to see that Imus is now being portrayed as the poor, woebegone victim.
Almost makes me understand how women in some countries are expected to kill themselves if they're raped, because of the shame they brought to their families. Almost.
In this case: Blame the victims. Blame anyone but the person responsible, if he's a white male. Blame the liberals, they're all the owners of those big companies: Geico, Head-On, Bigelow....oh wait, they aren't.
No wonder the team is getting hate mail. (His wife says to send it to her husband.)
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Very weird to see that Imus is now being portrayed as the poor, woebegone victim.
Almost makes me understand how women in some countries are expected to kill themselves if they're raped, because of the shame they brought to their families. Almost.
In this case: Blame the victims. Blame anyone but the person responsible, if he's a white male. Blame the liberals, they're all the owners of those big companies: Geico, Head-On, Bigelow....oh wait, they aren't.
No wonder the team is getting hate mail. (His wife says to send it to her husband.)
He is a victim , mostly of his own mouth.
Is this penalty in purportion to the offense?
I would very likely get fired , if I were talking like Imus on my job , tough I might get a bit of warning and counseling first.
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Like you said,this isn't about Imus anymore. It's about rich white men and cheering their demise.
He isn't a victim. He is a symbol, remember?
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Modesty Blaise writes:
<<They attacked Imus.>>
? ? ? ? Imus attacked them.
<<I could care less about what he says, I could care less about anything anyone says. >>
Well, it's obvious you don't give a shit if Imus or anyone else attacks black women. It remains to be seen what would happen if some public figure personally attacked you and yours in such a vile and unjustified way.
<<It only gains credibility when it becomes something productive(do not confuse that with positive in the sense of happy joy no offense).>>
Sorry, but I don't understand you.
<< If this is a "black issue" than it is only a "black issue" by their own instigation. >>
That's ridiculous. He called a mostly black women's team "nappy-headed hos," nappy being an adjective descriptive of African hair and hos being an African-American term for whores. How in the hell did the team instigate that? By being black?
<<Not to belabor the obvious any further, but it does speak of a low collective self-esteem to hear the words "nappy ho's" and immediately consider race as opposed to gender.>>
Wait a minute. "Nappy" describes male and female African hair; no other kind of hair, so it's a specific reference to Africans and/or African-Americans; "ho" is a specifically African-American slang term for whore. A predominantly white team couldn't be described as nappy-headed and there would be no sense in using an African-American term for whore to describe them when there are plenty on non-racial slang terms for whore in existence. Both words used by Imus aimed at the black community exclusively. They'd have to be morons not to understand that they were insulted for being black.
<<Now on vicitmization: I am SO SICK of the amounts of people who use their victim-as-the-victimizer status to destroy and control. >>
Good. Now maybe you should try to understand how SICK blacks are of being victimized by racism. Do you really think this is the first time any of the blacks you're talking about have been insulted by racists, or demeaned by racism? They LIVE with it, but you can't even stand to hear their complaints. You really ought to get out of your shell a little more.
<<I really can't narrow down which group owns the "victim" patent, but this society is being destroyed by this. We've already been the ONLY NATION in HISTORY to continually lower our standards academically and socially to allow groups of people to "rise above", and it has never been to any good end. Using the victim-victimizer arguments onyl prolongs and validates such a sad turn of events.>>
I don't know how this turned into a debate on affirmative action, but I'm not prepared to debate you on that. I don't think the final results are in. It certainly seems to have lowered the standards and I'm personally aware of some very negative effects of it, but the overall picture and end result may in fact be a significant lowering of racially-disadvantaged households in America and a general spreading of the American Dream to places where it never had a hope before. I respectfully suggest that we both keep an open mind on this subject. (And I personally was a lot more opposed to it than you might think.)
<<And so, Michael Tee, perhaps we can hold you as a bastion of all good and decent and proper . . . >>
Awww shit, Modesty, I'm just a man.
<< . . . surely, you have never uttered any insult or degradation, or thought one, ever, at any point, in your life. >>
In all seriousness, Modesty, I can tell you that I was warned by my father at a very young age that the N-word was never, ever, ever to be used anywhere or any time, and that racial insults like "chink" or "nigger" were a sure-fire mark of ignorance and low class. The principal of our elementary school called a special meeting of the whole school when its one black student was called names and had stones thrown at him. I was in Grade Three then and I already knew without the Principal having to tell me how horrible this was. I don't believe I ever went against my Dad's advice on that point. Never said it, never thought it. So all your sarcasm is wasted on me.
<<Were we all so immune to being human!>>
It's not "human" to be racist and it's not "human" to be insensitive to somebody else's pain. You are really screwed up. Your attitudes are symptomatic of what's wrong with your country. You don't take racism seriously and you don't give a shit about your neighbour's pain as long as you don't have to bear it yourself.
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That is a huge shame.
A shame he could have prevented had he thought about it, and balanced how important the charities were to him and more importantly, to the recipients.
I'm sure the children will understand. Perhaps as they age they will understand the importance of symbolism and maybe even one day feel the warm glow of blood on the fangs sanctimony.
What is preventing him from giving to them now/ Did he become a Republican after being picked on like they always claim to be?
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<<I would very likely get fired , if I were talking like Imus on my job , tough I might get a bit of warning and counseling first.>>
Sounds to me like you already should have had the warning and the counselling.
(just kidding)
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What is preventing him from giving to them now/ Did he become a Republican after being picked on like they always claim to be?
Oh I am sure he will give what he can. However the larger portion of charitable contributions came from his disenfranchised listener base.
The larger point being that this is own group that will suffer from the collateral damage from this whole affair.
And perhaps they should be thought about in between celebratory high fives.
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<<And perhaps they should be thought about in between celebratory high fives. >>
Nobody's indispensable. The high fives are for a body blow to racism and a landmark signal that it IS increasingly repugnant to most Americans.
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The high fives are for a body blow to racism and a landmark signal that it IS increasingly repugnant to most Americans.
Glad to hear the racism problem has been solved. Symbolically at least.
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<<Glad to hear the racism problem has been solved. Symbolically at least. >>
Just one small step, unfortunately, in a long, long, long march. Symbolically, of course.
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Lanya - "I kept thinking, what if someone attacked my neighbor's girls like that? Or my sons? It got personal, and personal attacks by someone in power are wrong." You would really give someone who throws an insult credibility to their words-the insult, to narrow it down as far as posible? Why?
"Blame anyone but the person responsible, if he's a white male." Oh, please. I don't know whats worse-the "white" or the "male" part of such sentiments.
"Blame the liberals, they're all the owners of those big companies: Geico, Head-On, Bigelow....oh wait, they aren't." Actually the liberals should be blamed for guilt-trip censorship.
BT - Agreed, in re: to charities. He's done entirely too much good, and at a personal level at that; I think those talking of his "hateful" comments fail to realize no heart can be that divided,a nd the only thing he is guilty of was a jackass moment. Given that is lauded in this culture, it shouldn't have been a big deal.
MichaelTee: "Imus attacked them" He didn't attack them. He commented on their appearance, albeit in a harsh manner. They took something that should have been cast aside and-at the behest of their coach, I am sure-martyred themselves so a man could be hung.
"Well, it's obvious you don't give a shit if Imus or anyone else attacks black women. It remains to be seen what would happen if some public figure personally attacked you and yours in such a vile and unjustified way." You know, there were two white girls on the team. As for the latter statement, I wouldn't care. You would be surprised how much dignity there is in not allowing an offense to become one.
"That's ridiculous. He called a mostly black women's team "nappy-headed hos," nappy being an adjective descriptive of African hair and hos being an African-American term for whores. How in the hell did the team instigate that? By being black?"
"Wait a minute. "Nappy" describes male and female African hair; no other kind of hair, so it's a specific reference to Africans and/or African-Americans; "ho" is a specifically African-American slang term for whore. A predominantly white team couldn't be described as nappy-headed and there would be no sense in using an African-American term for whore to describe them when there are plenty on non-racial slang terms for whore in existence. Both words used by Imus aimed at the black community exclusively. They'd have to be morons not to understand that they were insulted for being black."
HAHAHA, whoah! Are you sure it's an adjective to describe african hair? and are you positive that ho's is of an african-american origin? Certainly, you sir have done more to declass that team and and african american women in general with that sentiment than Imus alone could have. Quite pejorative of you, and I'm sure you didn't intend that. And I'd love to know what other words for whore you mean that are "non-racial". Perhaps courtesan? hahahaha! Acortigiana Onesta, rofl!!
Per hyperdictionary.com: [n] garment consisting of a folded cloth drawn up between the legs and fastened at the waist; worn by infants to catch excrement [adj] in small tight curls and m-w.com:
Main Entry: 1nap·py
Pronunciation: 'na-pE
Function: noun
Etymology: obsolete nappy, adjective, foaming
chiefly Scottish : LIQUOR; specifically : ALE
Main Entry: 2nappy
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural nappies
Etymology: English dialect nap bowl, from Middle English, from Old English hn[AE]pp; akin to Old High German hnapf bowl
: a rimless shallow open serving dish
Main Entry: 3nappy
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural nappies
Etymology: napkin + 4-y
chiefly British : DIAPER 3
Main Entry: 4nappy
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): nap·pi·er; -est
Etymology: 3nap
: KINKY 1
For further clarification lets look up kinky as well:
Main Entry: kinky
Pronunciation: 'ki[ng]-kE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): kink·i·er; -est
1 : closely twisted or curled
2 : relating to, having, or appealing to unconventional tastes especially in sex; also : sexually deviant
3 : OUTLANDISH, FAR-OUT
"Good. Now maybe you should try to understand how SICK blacks are of being victimized by racism. Do you really think this is the first time any of the blacks you're talking about have been insulted by racists, or demeaned by racism? They LIVE with it, but you can't even stand to hear their complaints. You really ought to get out of your shell a little more." Oh lord. Everyone who isn't white is a victim; and white men are the ultimate evil, yes. Historically we have always been the ones to blame. No one else, nope, not at all. They only live with their own deflated esteem; that it is projected onto others is irritating. Further, they wield their own outrageous insults-at the Jewish, the hispanic, the korean, etc. Maybe you should try visiting America-at least, more often.
"It certainly seems to have lowered the standards and I'm personally aware of some very negative effects of it, but the overall picture and end result may in fact be a significant lowering of racially-disadvantaged households in America and a general spreading of the American Dream to places where it never had a hope before." Well maybe a new thread sould begin. As long as a company is private, it can do as it damn well pleases-it is not confined to the federally mandated affirmative action. I will never go public with a company(I would hand that burden off by selling it, actually), and most entrepreneurs do the same. But I do admit, thats off topic.
"In all seriousness, Modesty, I can tell you that I was warned by my father at a very young age that the N-word was never, ever, ever to be used anywhere or any time, and that racial insults like "chink" or "nigger" were a sure-fire mark of ignorance and low class." Well, I agree with your father. But it's missing the point. Neither nappy nor ho are 100% black-owned. Imus made a remark that even if he had said "rode hard and put up wet" would still have been villified. I don't agree with improper behaviour in public; but the underlying issue is why what once remained "behind closed doors" is now public? I think the U.S. citizenry would do well with some etiquette classes.
"It's not "human" to be racist and it's not "human" to be insensitive to somebody else's pain. You are really screwed up. Your attitudes are symptomatic of what's wrong with your country. You don't take racism seriously and you don't give a shit about your neighbour's pain as long as you don't have to bear it yourself." It *is* human, however, to bond over negativity. Recent studies-which I cannot locate among my thousands of bookmarked links at the moment-indicate that for the majority of humans, bonding over negative commentary-particularly gossip-is a prevailing social bond. As for "pain"-it is largely of one's own doing. Psychologically harsh, perhaps, but true. No I will not validate racism-prejudices exist, and NO ONE is immune from having them or having them used against them. As well-no, I don't care much about others pain. Why should I ahve to bear their cross when I've had to bear my own? That's a very selfish and childish thing, to expect others to bear your cross.
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modestyblase,
From what the team members said at their press conference, at first, they did not think much of the words. It wasn't the first time in their lives they'd been confronted with racism I'm sure. But they got calls at home, at their dorm rooms, on their cell phones, media people came to their parents' homes on Easter break (this is from my memory of what was said, if incorrect, I apologize) and kept asking them, "What's your response to Imus calling you a nappy-headed ho?" Over, and over and over again, until they had to deal with it publicly.
If my child were shown on TV making a basket and someone said a similar remark, I don't know what I'd do. For a person in a position of power to make fun of the powerless is NOT funny; it's antithetical to humor.
Luckily my kids are male and white. They will face fewer challenges than black women.
As to words: Words hurt worse than slaps. They last longer. They are far more powerful. My opinion, my experience.
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modestyblase, your twisting and torturing of dictionary definitions to "prove" that "nappy-headed ho" is not a racist insult reminded me somewhat of Bill Clinton's "It all depends on what you mean by 'is'" A valiant effort, to be sure, but at the end of the day I wouldn't think that there is one American in ten thousand who didn't understand that "nappy-headed ho" is, and was meant to be, a racist reference to black female whores. That's the message that Imus sent out and that is the message that almost any listener would receive. On the plain, everyday meaning of the words. If you don't see that, then we respectfully must simply agree to disagree.
As far as the supposed "dignity" of not taking offense, I don't agree at all. In a racially-victimized minority, silently absorbing the offense without protest just adds to the indignity and the degradation. Moreover, the blacks "suffered in silence" from the end of the Civil War till the 1950s and remained the victims of lynch mobs and the Jim Crow system of legalized institutional degradation and dehumanization. It was only through unremitting, clamorous protests that they began to lift the weight of American racism off their backs, which they are still in the process of doing.
<<Oh lord. Everyone who isn't white is a victim; and white men are the ultimate evil, yes. >>
Well, we aren't talking about "everyone who isn't white;" the subject, if you recall, is black people, specifically black Afro-Americans.
<<Historically we [white Americans] have always been the ones to blame. No one else, nope, not at all. >>
Well, maybe you are right. Who would YOU blame for slavery, Jim Crow and racism, in addition to white American males? Japanese women? Indonesian children? Blackfoot Sioux transvestites?
<< Further, they [blacks] wield their own outrageous insults-at the Jewish, the hispanic, the korean, etc. Maybe you should try visiting America-at least, more often.>>
You think the Jews, Hispanics and Koreans don't insult the blacks as well? Or is it OK to insult the blacks because "they" insult Jews, Koreans and Hispanics? Who specifically did the Rutgers team insult racially that justified Imus' insults?
<< . . . but the underlying issue is why what once remained "behind closed doors" is now public? >>
Well, geeze, with all due respect, that's like saying that public broadcasters now can reach an audience of millions with their thoughts and comments. We reached that point over eighty years ago. Most people today recognize the issue as being WHAT is said over the airwaves, not that things CAN be said over them.
<<I think the U.S. citizenry would do well with some etiquette classes.>>
You know and I know that ain't never gonna happen.
<<As well-no, I don't care much about others pain. Why should I have to bear their cross when I've had to bear my own? That's a very selfish and childish thing, to expect others to bear your cross. >>
You got it turned around 180 degrees. What's selfish and childish is to become so self-absorbed in your own problems that you just don't give a shit about your neigbour's. As John Donne said, "No man is an ilande." That is something everyone had better recognize.
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Very weird to see that Imus is now being portrayed as the poor, woebegone victim.
Almost makes me understand how women in some countries are expected to kill themselves if they're raped, because of the shame they brought to their families. Almost.
In this case: Blame the victims. Blame anyone but the person responsible, if he's a white male. Blame the liberals, they're all the owners of those big companies: Geico, Head-On, Bigelow....oh wait, they aren't.
No wonder the team is getting hate mail. (His wife says to send it to her husband.)
Speaking of typical RW hate mail:
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_104002437.html
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For a person in a position of power to make fun of the powerless is NOT funny; it's antithetical to humor.
I'm not sure Imus is in a position of power. Please expand on that statement.
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modestyblase, your twisting and torturing of dictionary definitions to "prove" that "nappy-headed ho" is not a racist insult reminded me somewhat of Bill Clinton's "It all depends on what you mean by 'is'" A valiant effort, to be sure, but at the end of the day I wouldn't think that there is one American in ten thousand who didn't understand that "nappy-headed ho" is, and was meant to be, a racist reference to black female whores. That's the message that Imus sent out and that is the message that almost any listener would receive. On the plain, everyday meaning of the words. If you don't see that, then we respectfully must simply agree to disagree.
"Nappy" is NOT only for the black community to claim as their own. I hear it applied to and used by many in day-to-day Dallas life. In fact, a senior partner of my best friends firm said a white girl was "a fat nappy disgrace". Apparently she was ill-dressed and poorly groomed(oh yes and fat). Hearsay, yes, and not irrefutable in a court of law sort of fact, but still.
As far as the supposed "dignity" of not taking offense, I don't agree at all. In a racially-victimized minority, silently absorbing the offense without protest just adds to the indignity and the degradation. Moreover, the blacks "suffered in silence" from the end of the Civil War till the 1950s and remained the victims of lynch mobs and the Jim Crow system of legalized institutional degradation and dehumanization. It was only through unremitting, clamorous protests that they began to lift the weight of American racism off their backs, which they are still in the process of doing.
In the '60s there was reason to fight. There was reason to take to the streets and march. Now there is no excuse short of their own failures. Anyone who has fought through the ghetto to make it for themselves will tell you that, regardless of their race. Furthermore, racism is kept alive ONLY by those giving it credbility. To use another legal reference: In a court of law, an unscrupulous attorney may raise in trial or motions a statement out of scope of the initial suit. If the other attorney acknowledges that sentiment in any manner, even if it is only to say its not true, if they say anything except objection out of scope-they have given the statement credibility and it thus becomes a triable issue.
"Well, maybe you are right. Who would YOU blame for slavery, Jim Crow and racism, in addition to white American males? Japanese women? Indonesian children? Blackfoot Sioux transvestites?"
Be careful with that. Do you think it was white people selling the slaves from Africa to the U.S.? Do you think only white people owned slaves? There is much documentation on Blacks-particularly in black-friendly southern cities like New Orleans-owning slaves. Slavery was an economic principle THROUGHOUT WORLD HISTORY(suffered by every nationality in existence, nearly)that finally began phasing out prior to the Civil War. You know, the burden of ownership being what it is and all.
"You think the Jews, Hispanics and Koreans don't insult the blacks as well? Or is it OK to insult the blacks because "they" insult Jews, Koreans and Hispanics? Who specifically did the Rutgers team insult racially that justified Imus' insults?"
Your liberalism is making you sound silly. I could construe the above sentiment to mean that only blacks can be offended or spew awful speech. But I won't. I could also construe that if someone is "justified" by another actions than it is ok to make ignorant or inflammatory statements. But, again, I won't. I do challenge you, however, to state with more clarity whatever it is your point had been.
Well, geeze, with all due respect, that's like saying that public broadcasters now can reach an audience of millions with their thoughts and comments. We reached that point over eighty years ago.
Hypersensitivity has really killed alot of the fun broadcasters were having years ago. Steve Allen's "Hebrew National Salami" bit would never fly today. But, short of Lenny Bruce(older generations, help me out?) I can't think of anyone using the sort of language currently raising national news media discourse.
You got it turned around 180 degrees. What's selfish and childish is to become so self-absorbed in your own problems that you just don't give a shit about your neigbour's. As John Donne said, "No man is an ilande." That is something everyone had better recognize.
If my neighbor's house is torn down in a tornado, or affected by other means-I will help him rebuild it(actually, I'm a girl and I'm sexist so I would make my boyfriend do it, or have him hire it done ;) ). If my neighbor is injured bodily and needs my assistance, I will offer it. If my neighbor has low self-esteem, ocd, etc.-I will not help him. It is not my issue, nor am I qualified to.
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My personal opinion based on her content produced here is that Modesty is a race-baiter, if not a frank white supremacist dispatched hither to roil and confuse a triumphant moment for racial equality, for which, with perspective, even Imus should agree. (I never said he was a dick, but standards are standards, especially ones that matter, as does this one in all its postmodern glory.)
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It wasn't a triumphant moment. It may have injured Obama's chances, as well, even though he respectably maintained his distance.
I can appreciate that it opened discourse on common civility, but of course I've no hope that it will go anywhere.
It's cyclical. There will be another black uproar against the white man(racist and sexist by default, as past and present "scandals" can show) within a year or year and a half. It always happens. Like clockwork. Thankfully, it doesn't tear down a man who, though fond of inserting his foot into his mouth, is decent, every time it happens.
BTW, anyone else notice that he went on to say Tennessee players were "cute"? Scanning over pics of the two teams, Tenneessee's players are better looking(oh, and hey! some of them get waxings!) So why wasn't this mentioned? I suppose they could have nailed for objectification or something in that instance. Surely they could have found a way to make that work!
Imus should have claimed the Clean Hands Defense from the beginning. "The black community should not be entitled to equitable relief as they came into the proceeding with unclean hands" :D I <3 affirmative defenses.
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Pretty much got this character nailed.
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Pretty much got this character nailed.
Domer,
Modesty has been posting with us under one name or another since the Yahoo days.
This character is no more racist than you are, overused and decawed as the word has become.
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I call them as I see them, BT, and I see this one as openly listing racist in content and almost assuredly intent.
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Your earlier posts labeled this one stupid.
Perhaps you call them prematurely.
Provocative perhaps, but hardly stupid.
To be blunt, the character of knute comes off as stupid and more accurately juvenile.
This one's postings are more on the level of Crane, always biting, opinionated and sharply penned.
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For a person in a position of power to make fun of the powerless is NOT funny; it's antithetical to humor.
I'm not sure Imus is in a position of power. Please expand on that statement.
I'm not going to look up how much money he made, or who was on his show in the last year, but he made lots of money, had a radio show and a simulcast TV show that drew politicians and people who wield quite a bit of power. They needed him to promote their books, he got big advertisers, big bucks. That is power in my book.
These were college girls. Playing a game. Not powerful. Getting an education at a very good college, and having this kind of disruption isn't helpful at all.
http://www.rutgersclubdc.org/facts.shtml
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Money does not necessarily equate to power.
How much power does Warren Buffett have over your life?
Does he have influence? Perhaps.
Does influence equate to power? That is debateable.
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Well, I think he was influential, and his advertisers and guests certainly did. Sen. Chris Dodd announced his run for the presidency on the Imus show, because he thought he'd reach more people that way than by announcing on Meet the Press.
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Can you think of anything he said or did that influenced your thinking or actions other than the nappy ho comment.
Was his endorsement of Kerry what changed your mind?
Advertizing is all about numbers. That is what they are after. So using ratings as a barometer the "worlds wackiest car" chases is more influential than Imus.
Dodd announced on that show because Imus throws softballs at certain folks and gives them more than a few minutes to talk.
And if he was so influential why isn't Dodd leading the pack?
Is he even above single digits in the polls?
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And then there is this:
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I didn't listen to him, so he didn't influence me. I wasn't aware until this controversy that he had endorsed Kerry. I don't listen to any shock jocks or any talk radio, not Air America, nada.
I have heard on several news shows that yes, he did let people speak their piece for more than just a soundbite, 15 minutes as opposed to much less. For that alone he was valuable to his guests.
He gave Dodd a platform to speak. That doesn't ensure good results, but it is a start.
I also heard that Imus was one of the very few people with shows of his type who said what a shameful reaction this administration had to Katrina.
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Isn't it ironic that his Katrina rants were basically about the poor response from to administration and how it adversely affected the mostly minority poor who were left on their own in the aftermath?
On second thought, i guess that kind of talk does make him a racist.
Nevermind.
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Isn't it ironic that his Katrina rants were basically about the poor response from to administration and how it adversely affected the mostly minority poor who were left on their own in the aftermath?
On second thought, i guess that kind of talk does make him a racist.
Nevermind.
That kind of talk does not make him not a racist , but that thought is surely to complex for your shallow mind.
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What would make him a racist?
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What would make him a racist?
You will never know, being one yourself. But denigrating young, beautiful and capapble women of color might be a start.
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You will never know, being one yourself.
What possible evidence do you have that i am a racist?
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You will never know, being one yourself.
What possible evidence do you have that i am a racist?
You defend and love them all.
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You defend and love them all.
Who have i defended?
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I stand firm on my stance on Imus. He was saying what many, many, many successful men say "behind closed doors", regardless of race. I don't approve of insults, necessarily, but I also do not approve of the ridiculous amount of credibility given to a man notorious for playing the crotchety old white guy. The collective relieving of personal guilt through the attack of a man who does a great amount of good, decent, charitable work is appalling.
Imus is a wealthy white man that had power...he had over the years made statements that was obscene and vulgar. he not only made that statement about young black women but others. I have no idea why he remained on the air for as long as he had...he might think of it as a free pass by his old boss..because the new one don't play. And that is why he got fired...a new boss that finds bigotry not to be condoned.
Between the down right lies from Faux Snooze and the bigotry from so many on the air, it's time that what came out of our mouths meant more then showing a boob. We have the right to say what we want...we are not guaranteed not to have to pay the coincidences...Imus paid. All I have heard is about rappers...blaming rabbers for what that 66 year old man said...it was not a rapper that called any one a nappy headed ho...it was Imus who is responsible for what he has coming out of his mouth.
And as for his charity work? so what? Should that exuse anything else he does/ If he helps an old woman across the street, should he be acquitted of murder? One thing has nothing to do with each other. Just think if he had said that about Laura Bush or Mother Babs?
terra
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One statement or a couple statements over the course of decades does not a man make.
No doubt he made a stupid statement. No doubt that statement could be construed to have racial overtones. But that doesn't make the man a racist.
Ponders whether it is too late for him to do the rehab retreat.
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he might think of it as a free pass by his old boss..because the new one don't play. And that is why he got fired...a new boss that finds bigotry not to be condoned.
What new boss? He's been working for CBS since 1997.
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One statement or a couple statements over the course of decades does not a man make.
No doubt he made a stupid statement. No doubt that statement could be construed to have racial overtones. But that doesn't make the man a racist.
Ponders whether it is too late for him to do the rehab retreat.
Imus called Venus Williams an animal, said her and her sister would be in National Geographic before playboy.
But Imus had his side kick who got to say all the juicy stuff....I think he was called the resident racist...the one that allowed Imus to remain above the frey...Bernard....the one that said the reason that Jepardy did not have many blacks on it was, that they did not recruit from prisons or have an affirmative action recruiter.
Imus and Bernard also had a blast in impersonating Dr. Maya Angelou..
Whitey plucked you from the jungle for too many years
Took away your pride, your dignity, and your spears
With freedom came new woes
Into whitey's world you was rudely cast
So wake up now and go to work?
You can kiss my big black ass
In 2000, the program's treatment of African-Americans also drew the ire of Chicago Tribune columnist Clarence Page. Appearing on the show, Page asked Imus to pledge to "cease all simian references [to] black athletes" and "references to noncriminal blacks as thugs, pimps, muggers, and Colt 45 drinkers." Imus responded, "I promise to do that." Page went on to ask that Imus put "an end to Amos 'n Andy cuts, comparison of New York City to Mogadishu, and all parodies of black voices," at which point Imus said, "I think Bernard should be doing this." As co-host Brook Gladstone noted on the August 18, 2001, edition of National Public Radio's On the Media, Imus' pledge "was inevitably and immediately broken."
MSNBC apologized in 2004 when Imus said that Palestinians were "stinking animals."
The Daily News article quoted Imus as saying, "Things are said on this program all the time that are inappropriate and in poor taste" and that "it's an attempt to be humorous, not a serious analysis of someone's status." Imus added, "If we make fun of Maya Angelou because she sounds a certain way, that's fine."
Well it's not fine. Dr. Angelou is a lovely warm hearted woman. She is soft spoken, intelligent and does not deserve such ugliness.
What is wrong with this country where belittling others is fine?
terra
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What is wrong with this country where belittling others is fine?
Seems to be standard fare.
Knute does it in here all the time.
So do you.
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<<In the '60s there was reason to fight. There was reason to take to the streets and march. Now there is no excuse short of their own failures. >>
Surely you're not calling the Rutgers women's basketball team failures? They made it into a respectable university and finished second out of what must have been a couple dozen other teams at least. Still, they're ridiculed publically on national TV as "nappy-headed hos." The ONLY people I can blame for these insults are Imus and his sidekick, nobody else. Certainly not the team.
<<Furthermore, racism is kept alive ONLY by those giving it credbility. >>
Ludicrous. Racism is obviously kept alive by Imus and ass-holes like him, and his defenders. The team did absolutely NOTHING to provoke Imus' racist insult. To remain silent in the face of it, to allow Imus to continue to spew racist insults (this being far from his first) - - now THAT is certainly one of the ways to keep racism alive.
<<To use another legal reference: In a court of law, an unscrupulous attorney may raise in trial or motions a statement out of scope of the initial suit. If the other attorney acknowledges that sentiment in any manner, even if it is only to say its not true, if they say anything except objection out of scope-they have given the statement credibility and it thus becomes a triable issue.>>
That argument presumes that there was nothing racist to start with in Imus' statement and that only the protest against it as being racist has given it its racist character. That's patently absurd because to everyone (except you, apparently) the words "nappy-headed hos" applied to an almost all-black women's team are implicitly and obviously racist. Notwithstanding your ingenious and imaginative researches into dictionary and alternative meanings for the words. You seem to be under the illusion that all dictionary meanings of a word are equivalent in popular usage, that for instance if I refer to some James Dean wannabe as a "punk" that I have called him either an inconsequential or insignificant young hoodlum or a prostitute because the dictionary allows both meanings. What you fail to appreciate is that every time a word is used by a speaker, that speaker is not necessarily intending that that word be given ALL of its dictionary meanings, and that the listener understands that as well. The meaning of the word, from a possible range of all its dictionary definitions, is taken from the context in which it was spoken. In the context in which Imus was speaking, "nappy-headed hos" meant pretty much the same as "nigger whores" and would have been understood as such by virtually any listener without a political agenda.
<<Do you think it was white people selling the slaves from Africa to the U.S.? Do you think only white people owned slaves? There is much documentation on Blacks-particularly in black-friendly southern cities like New Orleans-owning slaves.>>
I'm sure the whites had their collaborators and their enablers, their Uncle Toms etc. but it was white merchants, white buyers, white ships and white armies that created and maintained slavery. Without the entire white support structure for slavery in place, the entire system wouldn't have lasted a minute.
<< Slavery was an economic principle THROUGHOUT WORLD HISTORY(suffered by every nationality in existence, nearly)that finally began phasing out prior to the Civil War. You know, the burden of ownership being what it is and all.>>
Well since your subject was the lazy, no-good African-American community and their whining about victimization, I don't see how a discussion of slavery in the Athenian silver mines is going to add to this discussion. The problems of today's African-Americans descends squarely from North American slavery, Jim Crow and lynch mob racism, and regardless of what problems remain today from ancient and international forms of slavery, their problems are strictly the "gift" of white male Americans and nobody else. Much as those criminal fascists and their defenders might like to spread the blame around on everyone else in the world, they aren't fooling anybody. They should grow up, face the music and admit what they did - - and pay reparations for it.
<<Your liberalism is making you sound silly. I could construe the above sentiment ["You think the Jews, Hispanics and Koreans don't insult the blacks as well? Or is it OK to insult the blacks because "they" insult Jews, Koreans and Hispanics? Who specifically did the Rutgers team insult racially that justified Imus' insults?"]to mean that only blacks can be offended or spew awful speech. But I won't. >>
Well, you couldn't, actually. It was a response to your complaint that blacks insult other groups. A totally meaningless and irrelevant comment. Some blacks insult others, just as some whites insult others. Hopefully ALL such insults are condemned by the majority of Americans. In no way could your statement exonerate Imus, give him a pass on anythng, or justify his continuing to pollute the airwaves with his racism.
<<I could also construe that if someone is "justified" by another actions than it is ok to make ignorant or inflammatory statements. But, again, I won't. >>
And again, you couldn't.
<<I do challenge you, however, to state with more clarity whatever it is your point had been.>>
I was rebutting YOUR point - - if it was a point. You pointed out that blacks have insulted Jews, Koreans and others. MY point was that this was totally irrelevant and furthermore may have been provoked (not justified, just provoked) by Jews and Koreans insulting blacks.
<<Hypersensitivity has really killed alot of the fun broadcasters were having years ago. Steve Allen's "Hebrew National Salami" bit would never fly today. >>
I agree with you about hypersensitivity in general, although I don't recall the Hebrew National Salami bit. I'm sure whatever it involved, Steve Allen did not call any specific group of Jewish girls or Jewish women in general the equivalent of "nappy-headed hos" (hook-nosed sluts?) or raise any insult of that level against anyone. And if he HAD, there would have been a shit-storm of protest and that would have been the last anyone ever heard of Steve Allen.
<<But, short of Lenny Bruce(older generations, help me out?) I can't think of anyone using the sort of language currently raising national news media discourse.>>
I can't recall anything like Imus' comments ever coming out of the mouth of Lenny Bruce. Don't forget, Imus was insulting a specific identifiable group of young college students, a group of only (I think) ten girls. Who had done absolutely nothing to provoke the insult except play basketball.
<<If my neighbor's house is torn down in a tornado, or affected by other means-I will help him rebuild it(actually, I'm a girl and I'm sexist so I would make my boyfriend do it, or have him hire it done ). If my neighbor is injured bodily and needs my assistance, I will offer it.>>
OK, so you're not ALL bad.
<< If my neighbor has low self-esteem, ocd, etc.-I will not help him. It is not my issue, nor am I qualified to.>>
What if your neighbour has low self-esteem and some guy who sells products you buy works on national radio, ridicules your neighbour by name, to an audience of millions, openly laughs at him, tells the world how ugly he is and calls him a sex pervert as well? What do you think THAT does for your neighbour's self-esteem? Would you not at least want to pick up the phone and tell your suppliers, "Hey that guy who sells your stuff is an ass-hole?" Wouldn't you want to ask, "Why do you want a guy like that representing your brand?"
I am having a real tough time understanding your total indifference to your neighbour's pain. To the cruelty of somebody who gratuitously without provocation insults your neighbour, low self-esteem or not. Having low self-esteem is not a crime. It shouldn't give anyone a licence to attack them and further lower their self-esteem. Why would you remain indifferent to this kind of bullying when with very little effort you could step in and make a difference - - set a precedent where this bully at least is stopped in his tracks and future bullys have to think twice before repeating his mistake. Oh, I forgot - - it's just not your problem. I gotta say it - - people like you just boggle my mind. I'm glad you're in the minority, even in your own country.
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What is wrong with this country where belittling others is fine?
Seems to be standard fare.
Knute does it in here all the time.
So do you.
If you will check it, I only belittle the puffed up , arrogant & power wannbees.
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Terra,
So good to see you!
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If you will check it, I only belittle the puffed up , arrogant & power wannbees.
Just a reminder.
Your posting privileges depend on my good will.
No wannabee power involved at all.
Something to keep in mind as you attempt to shitify this forum.
and remember also it was you who said we had a plethora of shitty outlets and we don't need more.
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Imus, despite the recent flap -- which was justly resolved -- is a decent man, that is, among other things, a non-racist one. Blowhards descend from far and wide to take a pound of his flesh after the whole damn carcass has been carried out! Over the years, I have listened to him rarely, in recent years assiduously changing from MSNBC should I have it on in his morning time slot. From what I know, much more so than most, he tried to keep his show fresh and sharp with parody and satire, sometimes on the cutting edge and artfully, now and then ham-handedly and even ugly. His passing from the scene -- for how long? don't forget he's positioned to retire comfortably -- in my view clearly serves a larger purpose in public "morals" and rhetoric, one that is directly related to the very bugaboo of our history as a nation, that is, a not insubstantial thing. But as for Imus, when he gets over the shock and digests the humble pie, he'll find a place at my table any time he wants, with Sharpton or Jackson in a fantasy guest list designed to show solidarity against perpetuating harmful stereotypes against vulnerable minorities, respect for a public figure who tried (and failed) to bridge gaps with humor, and for the holy grail of civil discourse, so long missing.
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to err is human to forgive divine
pun intended
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Why is it that most people can't see that this is a tempest in a teapot? Wake up people, the world is sometimes an ugly, nasty place. What truly annoys me about this whole thing are that as soon as the comment was made, the soapboxes and microphones came out. What Imus said was wrong and inappropriate, but it is far from being the end of the world and the re-establishment of Jim Crow. Imus's comment did not prevent these women from getting a job. It didn't prevent them from voting, or getting an education. The fact is that there are always going to be ugly people in the world, people who are crude, mean, ignorant or any combination of the three. Get over it. It isn't right, but that's the way it is. If you want to change it then you need to prove the people that hold those thoughts wrong. In an ideal world it wouldn't be this way, but this world is far from ideal. You can't have this one-sided social prosecution, all that does is reinforce the ignorant ideas in some people's minds.
Then there is the overreaction from the press and babbling heads about a comment that can be heard on just about any gangsta rap album out there. But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard. It's ignorant and stupid. It would be like a gay man such as myself deciding that since Isaiah Washington used a crude slur, that all blacks are homophobic, or actors, or whatever. People need to grow up and move on. Some people are going to always going to be stupid (and after three or four years in this forum, I can see that much is true), and if you stand around waiting for them to change then the favor you are doing isn't for yourself, but for them.
Just about any minority in society, whether it is racial, sexual, religious, whatever, faces some sort of crude and ignorant behavior from others. By acknowledging it and overreacting to it, we dignify it. That acknowledgement reinforces the ignorant ideas in others.
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"But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard."
I find it difficult to believe, but I actually agree with this statement. There is some validity to this statement in that a non-minority person does indeed get crucified for the same inappropriate comments a minority person can make. I see it all the time and I would surmise most of you here do too.
It is indeed a double standard. Factually.
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Terra-"And as for his charity work? so what?" Were he truly so "racist", he would not be as kind via his charitable works. A heart simply cannot be that divided.
"What is wrong with this country where belittling others is fine?" Certainly there are near-infinite excuses one can make reagrding the question you pose, but ultimately it comes down to humans being humans. Granted, the tendencies of overcasualization(is that a word, or did I just create it?) mixed with the hypersensitivity currently in p.c. vogue makes it seem "horrible to a stoning degree", but really, its not. People will always belittle others. We are not virtuous by nature-by deed, perhaps, but never by nature, and even less so when "bonding" and socializing outside of business environments.
MichaelTee-I've a hunch that really, in your case, I'm only arguing for the sake of arguing. Given that I learned(albeit the hard way)that it is minimally acceptable in business, I'll just take out my tendencies by arguing with you >: D
"Surely you're not calling the Rutgers women's basketball team failures?"
Absolutely not. You have taken that out of context. You initially argued that this was some sort of "racial" barrier they(the black community) have knocked down. I have called "bullshit" on that statement. On a societal level, all barriers were finally knocked down after civil rights and affirmative actions measures began sinking in. Any "barriers" they still maintain are their own creation. As a woman, I can identify with alot of those "barriers", and can contend that since I simply do not allow them, I no longer have them. If one person won't hire me because I am a woman, I go somewhere else. It's that simple. Surely I could play the "I'm a woman!" card, but how far would that get me? Is this making sense to you now, at all?
"That argument presumes that there was nothing racist to start with in Imus' statement and that only the protest against it as being racist has given it its racist character."
Actually, no it doesn't. At its root, it means that something not deserving credibility, yet given just that, in any manner, deems it credible.
As for definitions, peruse urbandictionary.com. Surely you will see the myriad meanings, and not all racially inclined.
"I'm sure the whites had their collaborators and their enablers, their Uncle Toms etc. but it was white merchants, white buyers, white ships and white armies that created and maintained slavery. Without the entire white support structure for slavery in place, the entire system wouldn't have lasted a minute."
Slavery was nothing more than a social-economic condition that was in its final phases-and was phasing out-during the civil war. Slavery still exists, but not in a state so readily identifiable.
"The problems of today's African-Americans descends squarely from North American slavery, Jim Crow and lynch mob racism, and regardless of what problems remain today from ancient and international forms of slavery, their problems are strictly the "gift" of white male Americans and nobody else."
That "Jim Crow and lynch-mob racism" affected Jews and Catholics as much-sometimes, demographically, more than-African Americans.
Their "problems" are no longer "problems", except by their choosing.
"Hopefully ALL such insults are condemned by the majority of Americans."
Insults exist. You can't liberal-guilt them away. You simply can't. You can, however, grow up and let them roll off of you. I don't want to use my "I'm a smart, pretty girl card" again, but...
"MY point was that this was totally irrelevant and furthermore may have been provoked (not justified, just provoked) by Jews and Koreans insulting blacks."
So it IS acceptable that if someone is "justified" by another actions than it is ok to make ignorant or inflammatory statements.
"I can't recall anything like Imus' comments ever coming out of the mouth of Lenny Bruce."
If you take into consideration the era and outlets Bruce ranted on-yes, they were considered just as bad, at the least.
I would remain indifferent because it's not bullying. Its someone being an ass. He is at liberty to be an ass. And you are at liberty to disregard his sentiments.
Domer: "But as for Imus, when he gets over the shock and digests the humble pie, he'll find a place at my table any time he wants, with Sharpton or Jackson in a fantasy guest list designed to show solidarity against perpetuating harmful stereotypes against vulnerable minorities, respect for a public figure who tried (and failed) to bridge gaps with humor, and for the holy grail of civil discourse, so long missing."
Well said. That is, if you can accept such sentiment from someone you have deemed a "white supremacist".
Fatman: "You can't have this one-sided social prosecution, all that does is reinforce the ignorant ideas in some people's minds."
Agreed!
As it stands, even though I LOVE to argue, I must admit this is getting played out. Sensibility being what it is, unless someone raises a valid question or argument, I'll refrain from this. On this thread anyway >: D
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American radio icon Don Imus disgraced, fired after threat to reveal 9/11 secrets
13.04.2007 Source: URL: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/89728-Don_Imus-0
In a clear sign of its intent to reign in dissident American media personalities, and their growing influence in American culture, US War Leaders this past week launched an unprecedented attack upon one of their most politically 'connected', and legendary, radio hosts named Don Imus after his threats to release information relating to the September 11, 2001 attacks upon that country.
According to European reports of the events surrounding Don Imus that have gripped the United States this past week, it was during an interview with another American media personality, Tim Russert, who is the host of a television programme frequently used by US War Leaders, wherein while decrying the state of care being given to American War wounded stated, "So those bastards want to keep these boys [in reference to US Soldiers] secret? Let's see how they like it if I start talking about their [in reference to US War Leaders] secrets, starting with 9/11."
Unable to attack such a powerful media figure as Don Imus, directly, the US War Leaders, and as we have seen many times before, resorted to a massive media attack against him using as the reason a racial slur against a US woman's basketball team, but which has been pointed out by other media outlets was not by any means a rare occurrence for the legendary radio icon to make.
But, to the US War Leaders, Don Imus represented the most serious threat, to date, of the growing assault against them by America's media personalities threatening to expose the truths behind the events of September 11, 2001 and the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars; and to such an extent that another American media personality, Rosie O'Donnell, has expressed concern that US Military Leaders could actually imprison Mr. Imus.
From our past research of the tactics used against those threatening America's War Leaders, the likelihood of imprisonment for Don Imus would only occur should he persist in his threats to undermine their authority, and which appears, at this time, unlikely after the public disgrace he has had to endure.
It is expected, also, that the US War Leaders actions against Don Imus will have a further chilling affect upon other American media personalities questioning their authority, such as the popular US movie actor, Charlie Sheen, and who was one of the first to question the events of September 11, 2001, and as we can read as reported by New Zealand Herald News Service in their article titled "Charlie Sheen may voice 9/11 documentary", and which says:
"US actor Charlie Sheen is reportedly in talks to narrate an internet documentary that suggests elements of the US government were behind the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Centre.
Sheen's representatives say he was involved in the production of a new version of Loose Change, a 90-minute conspiracy theory film that has been seen by more than 10 million internet viewers."
Apparently lost upon America's media personalities is that a government being investigated by the International Red Cross for the torture of an Iranian Diplomat by whipping with steel cables on his feet; a government that would have its soldiers imprison in an Ethiopian torture jail a Swedish teenage girl; a government that would even contemplate the release of one of the World's most wanted terrorists, Posada Carriles; does not hesitate, for even a second, to crush any, and all, opposition to it.
To the American people themselves their remains no evidence that they know, much less care, about the dire state of their once Free Nation.
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Interesting take on that.
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13.04.2007 Source: URL: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/89728-Don_Imus-0
I did not know that Mikey freelanced for Pravda.
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Here, Here......couldn't have said it better, Fatman *golf clap*
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070415/ap_on_re_eu/germany_army_video;_ylt=Aqdjm7RHntzmO0cIjrHcMAtbbBAF
Not exactly the same subect , though it does involve racism....
Not good for German tourism .
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And as for his charity work? so what? Should that exuse anything else he does/ If he helps an old woman across the street, should he be acquitted of murder? One thing has nothing to do with each other. Just think if he had said that about Laura Bush or Mother Babs?
terra
He didn't?
I don't know how they would get missed, he insulted everyone elese in the Republican party.
He has said stuff like this about a lot of prominent people in power , this time though, he has struck the innocent .
Our society benefits from haveing clowns aound that are immune to the powerfull ,enough to vent the frustraion of the common man.
But he deseres to be chided or mocking the innocent .
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But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard.
It is indeed a double standard. Factually.
Here, Here......couldn't have said it better, Fatman *golf clap*
No one is stopping you from saying it. Maybe it is a double standard, so what?
Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.
Then you can benefit from the percieved double standard you seem to care so much about.
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Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.
Is that because of the color of skin or a cultural situation?
Can a poor black child escape from the ghetto by making good choices and utilizing the tools offered? The same choices and tools offered to poor white children, BTW.
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Is that because of the color of skin or a cultural situation?
Because of a multitude of variables that have led to gross inequality.
Can a poor black child escape from the ghetto by making good choices and utilizing the tools offered? The same choices and tools offered to poor white children, BTW.
Can a small percentage overcome the obstacles of inequality? Yes. Will the vast majority? No.
The truth is that cliche-riddled stories of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and living the so-called "American Dream" is hampered by the very American system of capitalism, which breeds the inequality itself. Cities like Memphis, Detroit, and Saint Louis do not have the level of inequality between the races simply because black culture is somehow "inferior" anymore than Mexican or Vietnamese cultures are "inferior."
Note the desire above is not to end the racism, but to end the perceived doublestandard.
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here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.
Disproportionately poor? Do they own the patent on this? Do you have sources to prove they are disproportionately poor, and to who they are measured against at that?
Unemployed? Can you effectively explain *why* blacks are in large numbers unemployed?
In prison? Well thats something I agree with you on, but I am opposed to jail time for victimless crimes, so as it goes...(so it goes :D )
More likely to die at a younger age? What studies do you have to prove this?
Because of a multitude of variables that have led to gross inequality.
Weren't those addressed via civil rights and affirmative action legislations and fallout?
The truth is that cliche-riddled stories of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and living the so-called "American Dream" is hampered by the very American system of capitalism, which breeds the inequality itself.
I bet first generation immigrants would disagree.
Cities like Memphis, Detroit, and Saint Louis do not have the level of inequality between the races simply because black culture is somehow "inferior" anymore than Mexican or Vietnamese cultures are "inferior."
Memphis, Detroit, and St. Louis, being relatively poor cities anyway, are poor examples.
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Can a small percentage overcome the obstacles of inequality? Yes. Will the vast majority? No.
Why not? This country has spent billions to alleviate inequities. Is that money down the drain?
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But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard.
It is indeed a double standard. Factually.
Here, Here......couldn't have said it better, Fatman *golf clap*
No one is stopping you from saying it. Maybe it is a double standard, so what?
Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.
Then you can benefit from the percieved double standard you seem to care so much about.
So, you admit it is a double standard?
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Is that because of the color of skin or a cultural situation?
Because of a multitude of variables that have led to gross inequality.
Can a poor black child escape from the ghetto by making good choices and utilizing the tools offered? The same choices and tools offered to poor white children, BTW.
Can a small percentage overcome the obstacles of inequality? Yes. Will the vast majority? No.
The truth is that cliche-riddled stories of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and living the so-called "American Dream" is hampered by the very American system of capitalism, which breeds the inequality itself. Cities like Memphis, Detroit, and Saint Louis do not have the level of inequality between the races simply because black culture is somehow "inferior" anymore than Mexican or Vietnamese cultures are "inferior."
Note the desire above is not to end the racism, but to end the perceived doublestandard.
Are you saying that blacks do not rise out of this? Because I can provide example after example of this happening like Ben Carson.
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Without adopting the predicate comments in this thread, though not disavowing them, either, I assert that the standard is not "double" but "comprehensive," as it must be, or, more colloquially, "honest" and "true."
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Please clarify, Domer. I'm not entirely sure I know what you are espousing here.
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What is wrong with this country where belittling others is fine?
Seems to be standard fare.
Knute does it in here all the time.
So do you.
Knute does not say a thing abbrasive unless it is asked for. He certainly does not open up with guns blazing...but he does come prepared. Those black women did not ask to be belittled by someone of power like Imus.
All you right wingnutties stand up for the right of freespeech, unless its what we have to say against Bush, the war, or your bigotry...(you as in your herd, the republicans) . But hell as far as you are conserned calling someone a ho is fine...just never say Bush is a lyeing pile of dog shit that should be not only impeached but taken to the Hauge, put on trial and imprisoned for crimes against humanity.
And Cheney should stew in his own juices... for a long time until tender.
terra
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But hell as far as you are conserned calling someone a ho is fine
Could you provide a quote where i said that?
Perhaps a quote from any person on the right who has said Imus was correct in calling the women ho's.
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<<What Imus said was wrong and inappropriate, but it is far from being the end of the world and the re-establishment of Jim Crow. >>
Another planet heard from. Who ever said Imus' comment meant the end of the world and the re-establishment of Jim Crow?
<< Imus's comment did not prevent these women from getting a job. It didn't prevent them from voting, or getting an education. >>
And no one claimed that it did.
<< The fact is that there are always going to be ugly people in the world, people who are crude, mean, ignorant or any combination of the three. >>
Yeah, but they aren't always gonna have a national audience of millions like Imus did.
<<Get over it. It isn't right, but that's the way it is.>>
No it's not the way it is. If you noticed, there is one less racist prick polluting the airwaves today.
<<If you want to change it then you need to prove the people that hold those thoughts wrong. >>
They've already been proven wrong. Again and again. Only a moron would fail to realize that. The task now is to get their asses booted off the MSM.
<< In an ideal world it wouldn't be this way, but this world is far from ideal. >>
We're making it more and more ideal, one racist ass-hole at a time. Today it's Don Imus' turn. Tomorrow, Neil Boortz.
<< You can't have this one-sided social prosecution . . . >>
All prosecutions are one-sided. In case you haven't noticed. When was the last time you saw a prosecutor tell a jury, "Joe Blow is a lying, thieving, conniving, murdering bastard. But, at the same time, he's good to the neighbourhood kids, supports two dozen homes for the aged, and has a wicked sense of humour?""
<< . . . all that does is reinforce the ignorant ideas in some people's minds.>>
Personally, I think all it does is prevent a racist ass-hole like Don Imus from reinforcing ignorant ideas in the minds of his millions of listeners.
<<Then there is the overreaction from the press and babbling heads about a comment that can be heard on just about any gangsta rap album out there. >>
Don Imus, if you haven't noticed, is not a gangsta rapper. He was supposed to have a little more credibility. Hosted many major political figures on his show. Unlike any gangsta rapper I ever heard of.
<<But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard. >>
When you hear a black man, gangsta rapper or not, deride the Rutgers team as nappy-headed hos, get back to us.
<< It's ignorant and stupid. It would be like a gay man such as myself deciding that since Isaiah Washington used a crude slur, that all blacks are homophobic, or actors, or whatever. >>
Uh, actually, it would be nothing like that. Your example has absolutely nothing to do with the situation. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Nobody has decided that Don Imus was representative of all white males. In fact he's so out of line with mainstream white males that other mainstream white males decided they had to can his ass.
<<People need to grow up and move on. >>
I'm grown up and so are the folks who canned Imus' ass. So is the Rutgers team. So is Rutgers' president. So is the team's coach. So are the parents of the team. Maybe it's Imus and his defenders who really need to grow up. Think so?
<< Some people are going to always going to be stupid (and after three or four years in this forum, I can see that much is true) >>
NOW you're talking! ! !
<<And if you stand around waiting for them to change then the favor you are doing isn't for yourself, but for them.>>
I don't know about favours, and I don't know about standing around and waiting, but I think people can change. Some people.
<<Just about any minority in society, whether it is racial, sexual, religious, whatever, faces some sort of crude and ignorant behavior from others. >>
We're trying to reduce the incidence of that crude and ignorant behaviour. In the first place by keeping ignorant and crude people and their ignorant, crude behaviour off national MSM.
<< By acknowledging it and overreacting to it, we dignify it. >>
I don't know what's so dignified about getting your ass canned and your reputation shredded in front of an audience of millions, while you grovel and beg to keep your job, but if that's what you call dignified, we must be using different dictionaries. Do you also subscribe to the theory that no sex is good sex unless you're peed on and whipped by your partner?
<<That acknowledgement reinforces the ignorant ideas in others.>>
I think the idea that was really reinforced in others was the idea that there's no profit in being a sexist racist pig anymore and that ideas like Imus' are really better off left unsaid.
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No one is stopping you from saying it. Maybe it is a double standard, so what?
So what?? Supporting a wrong, when it's wrong, is right?
Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age. Then you can benefit from the percieved double standard you seem to care so much about.
I have a better idea. Instead of trying to rationalize and give a pass to blatantly improper, if not immoral behavior/rhetoric, let's be consistent and call it for what it is, regardless if its from an old white male on the radio or a young black man in recording a song in a radio studio
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Talking , or singing ,rough language can make one a lot of money.
Imus got rich deriding people.
Gansta rappers got rich shouting anger .
Is there any money in being polite?
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(http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/070412/trever.gif)
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb0416aj.jpg)
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<<Is there any money in being polite?>>
Good question. Why don't you dig out Forbes' (or is it Fortune's?) past lists of wealthiest Americans one year at a time and see how many of them are gangsta rappers and how many are not. Of those who are not, try to figure out how many got where they are by not being polite or by inheriting the wealth of the impolite, and how many didn't.
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Well, MT, to be fair, don't just grab Forbes, look at its entertainment equivalents-Rolling Stone, I would presume? Spin?
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<<Is there any money in being polite?>>
Good question. Why don't you dig out Forbes' (or is it Fortune's?) past lists of wealthiest Americans one year at a time and see how many of them are gangsta rappers and how many are not. Of those who are not, try to figure out how many got where they are by not being polite or by inheriting the wealth of the impolite, and how many didn't.
Warren Buffet is polite , he is a deal maker , and deals are easyer to make with courtesy.
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Talking , or singing ,rough language can make one a lot of money.
Imus got rich deriding people.
Gansta rappers got rich shouting anger .
Ah! Now you're getting it.
It is the free market right? Don't you, Sirs, et al love the free market?
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Talking , or singing ,rough language can make one a lot of money. Imus got rich deriding people. Gansta rappers got rich shouting anger .
Ah! Now you're getting it. It is the free market right? Don't you, Sirs, et al love the free market?
Umm, yea......and? What i don't love is the hypocritical double standard by so many in the mainscream media, and even those here in the forum that give a "so what?" to it
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But some of those African Americans are lifting themselves out of poverty and more than that, making more money than you and I will likely ever see, by writing those lyrics. If there wasn't a market for it, they would never see the success and wealth, correct?
So what is your problem? You aren't arguing that the language is wrong, just that the double standard is wrong. It is your economic system Sirs, go out and buy some white supremacist music if it bothers you so much.
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But some of those African Americans are lifting themselves out of poverty and more than that, making more money than you and I will likely ever see, by writing those lyrics. If there wasn't a market for it, they would never see the success and wealth, correct?
Doing it by the same way Imus just lost his job is blatantly hypocritical, especially when it's given a "so what"? Yea, the market is making them rich. And at the same time, facilitating this blatant hypocrisy. In my book, a wrong, is a wrong, is a wrong. And to condemn and fire one while rationalizing to the hilt in order to give the other a pass, is the quintisential definition of hypocrisy
So what is your problem?
Asked and answered multiple times already
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So the free market is wrong in this case?
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No, the Double Standard by the vast majority of the mainscream media, and liberal pundits who give a hypocritical pass to the double standard, is what's wrong in this case
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No, the Double Standard by the vast majority of the mainscream media, and liberal pundits who give a hypocritical pass to the double standard, is what's wrong in this case
Yes, yes, the horrid media and evil liberals...
Beyond that though is the essence of economics Sirs. Your are a pro market conservative. Why does it matter to you that hip hop lyrics have the language they do when they sell as well as they do? These guys make good money.
And Don Imus was fired after several of his advertisers pulled their support. Plus, his ratings were poor anyway, it was just that he hit a key demographic that some advertisers liked.
So it was a market decision. Why would that bother you? If the free market supports a double standard as you see it, should it not be left to the market to correct that if it is even necessary?
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No, the Double Standard by the vast majority of the mainscream media, and liberal pundits who give a hypocritical pass to the double standard, is what's wrong in this case
Yes, yes, the horrid media and evil liberals...
Well, I wouldn't call them "evil", but to each his own
Beyond that though is the essence of economics Sirs. Your are a pro market conservative. Why does it matter to you that hip hop lyrics have the language they do when they sell as well as they do? These guys make good money.
You seem to be under the misguided presumption that I think something's wrong with the market. Funny thing here, if the mainscream media and "evil" liberals were to actually criticize the egregiously foul & racist language in the hip hop industry, even half as vitriolic as they go after some old white guy who simply made a stupid joke, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if those sales #'s plummeted. But since it continues to GET A PASS, it continues to get a relative stamp of approval & legitimacy by those entities. Just conjecture on my part, but it'd be based on logic
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You never answered my question. And no I didn't presume you thought anything was wrong with the market, actually the opposite, which is why I find your view on this bizarre.
If you truly believed in the market, then this entire incident shouldn't be a problem.
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If you truly believed in the market, then this entire incident shouldn't be a problem.
It isn't, but I'm not assuming the market has spoken it's last word on this matter, either.
It wasn't that long ago the demise of the Dixie Chicks career was being predicted after Natalie Maines opened her mouth in London. Didn't quite work out that way over the long haul, did it?
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Below you will find an email I received. After reading the email, I thought, maybe this is what Imus was all about. Maybe he is not prejudice, maybe he is just a white guy who is tired of the unjust discrimination towards white people.
The email:
Someone finally said it.
>
>How many are actually paying attention to this?
>
>
>
>There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans,
Native Americans, etc.
>
>And then there are just Americans.
>
>
>
>You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
>
>You Call me "White boy," "Cracker," "Honkey,"
>
>"Whitey," "Caveman" . And that's OK.
>
>
>
>But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger, camel Jockey, Beaner,
Gook, or Chink ..
>
>You call me a racist.
>
>
>
>You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos
the most dangerous places to live?
>
>
>
>You have the United Negro College Fund.
>
>You have Martin Luther King Day.
>
>You have Black History Month.
>
>You have Cesar Chavez Day.
>
>You have Yom Hashoah.
>
>You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
>
>You have the NAACP.
>
>You have BET.
>
>
>
>If we had WET (White Entertainment Television)
>
>We'd be racists.
>
>
>
>If we had a White Pride Day . You would call us racists.
>
>If we had White History Month . We'd be racists.
>
>If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" OUR Lives
we'd be racists.
>
>
>
>We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then
we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.
>
>Wonder who pays for that?
>
>
>
>If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships ... You
know we'd be racists.
>
>
>
>There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US , yet if there
were "White colleges" ..
>
>THAT would be a racist college.
>
>
>
>In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race
and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
>
>
>
>You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid
to announce it. But when we announce our white pride ..
>
>You call us racists.
>
>
>
>You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots
a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing
a threat to society you call him a racist.
>
>
>
>I am proud.
>
>But, you call me a racist.
>
>
>
>Why is it that only whites can be racists?
>
>
>
>There is nothing improper about this e-mail.
>
>Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on.
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It wasn't that long ago the demise of the Dixie Chicks career was being predicted after Natalie Maines opened her mouth in London. Didn't quite work out that way over the long haul, did it?
Yep, too bad, too.
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Talking , or singing ,rough language can make one a lot of money.
Imus got rich deriding people.
Gansta rappers got rich shouting anger .
Ah! Now you're getting it.
It is the free market right? Don't you, Sirs, et al love the free market?
Shu re do , have I advocated a restriction on the first amendment right of either of these?
I would eschew support of these activities myself and encourage others to avoid them , but it is not worth the loss of right required to forbid them.
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Plane, please call me when you get a chance.
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Planee, please call me when you get a chance.
You may call me anytime this evening.
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April 18, 2007 -- Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry yesterday said he doesn't think Don Imus should have been fired for his racially charged comments - a sharp break with the current Democratic 2008 front-runners.
"You know, the punishment has to fit the crime, so to speak," Kerry, the Democrats' defeated 2004 White House hopeful, told NY1.
Kerry, who had Imus' support in that race, said he might be willing to go on a future Imus show if the radio host finds a new station - but "if he goes back to doing the same old, same old, I'd have trouble doing that."
http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/04182007/news/nationalnews/kerry__imus_firing_unfair_nationalnews_maggie_haberman.htm
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You never answered my question.
Yes, I have. You're the 1 trying to combine market forces and criticism of comments/lyrics. Just because the marker provides racists in making money in the hip hop industry, doesn't make what they do acceptable. And worse is when such is literally given a pass, as best as I can tell because of fear of being called racist themselves because they dare criticize what are largely Afrcan americans (that make up the industry in question) but if some old white man even makes a moronic joke, he's raked over the coals. Are you getting the difference, yet? I'm talking 1 thing, the hypocritical double standard, and you keep trying to bring in the market, as if that's what we're talking about
If you truly believed in the market, then this entire incident shouldn't be a problem.
From a market standpoint, IT'S NOT. I don't know how many more times you want me to repeat myself. Alex Rodriquez & Alfonso Soriano have no busness making the money they make simply playing a game, but that's what the market is paying them, and I still love to watch baseball. See the difference?
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<<Warren Buffet is polite , he is a deal maker , and deals are easyer to make with courtesy.>>
There ya go, plane. You just answered your own question. [Is there any money in being polite?]
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<<Warren Buffet is polite , he is a deal maker , and deals are easyer to make with courtesy.>>
There ya go, plane. You just answered your own question. [Is there any money in being polite?]
It takes all kinds , there is a maret for everything.
The angry young black man is a market , the angry old white man is a market.
Warren Buffet is not an entertainer , but Bill Cosby is he is pretty nice.