The Attack on Imus

[fatman]

Why is it that most people can't see that this is a tempest in a teapot?  Wake up people, the world is sometimes an ugly, nasty place.  What truly annoys me about this whole thing are that as soon as the comment was made, the soapboxes and microphones came out.  What Imus said was wrong and inappropriate, but it is far from being the end of the world and the re-establishment of Jim Crow.  Imus's comment did not prevent these women from getting a job.  It didn't prevent them from voting, or getting an education.  The fact is that there are always going to be ugly people in the world, people who are crude, mean, ignorant or any combination of the three.  Get over it.   It isn't right, but that's the way it is.  If you want to change it then you need to prove the people that hold those thoughts wrong.  In an ideal world it wouldn't be this way, but this world is far from ideal.  You can't have this one-sided social prosecution, all that does is reinforce the ignorant ideas in some people's minds.

Then there is the overreaction from the press and babbling heads about a comment that can be heard on just about any gangsta rap album out there.  But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard.  It's ignorant and stupid.  It would be like a gay man such as myself deciding that since Isaiah Washington used a crude slur, that all blacks are homophobic, or actors, or whatever.  People need to grow up and move on.  Some people are going to always going to be stupid (and after three or four years in this forum, I can see that much is true), and if you stand around waiting for them to change then the favor you are doing isn't for yourself, but for them.

Just about any minority in society, whether it is racial, sexual, religious, whatever, faces some sort of crude and ignorant behavior from others.  By acknowledging it and overreacting to it, we dignify it.  That acknowledgement reinforces the ignorant ideas in others.

[The_Professor]

"But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard."

I find it difficult to believe, but I actually agree with this statement. There is some validity to this statement in that a non-minority person does indeed get crucified for the same inappropriate comments a minority person can make. I see it all the time and I would surmise most of you here do too.

It is indeed a double standard. Factually.

[modestyblase]

Terra-"And as for his charity work? so what?" Were he truly so "racist", he would not be as kind via his charitable works. A heart simply cannot be that divided.

"What is wrong with this country where belittling others is fine?" Certainly there are near-infinite excuses one can make reagrding the question you pose, but ultimately it comes down to humans being humans. Granted, the tendencies of overcasualization(is that a word, or did I just create it?) mixed with the hypersensitivity currently in p.c. vogue makes it seem "horrible to a stoning degree", but really, its not. People will always belittle others. We are not virtuous by nature-by deed, perhaps, but never by nature, and even less so when "bonding" and socializing outside of business environments.

MichaelTee-I've a hunch that really, in your case, I'm only arguing for the sake of arguing. Given that I learned(albeit the hard way)that it is minimally acceptable in business, I'll just take out my tendencies by arguing with you >: D

"Surely you're not calling the Rutgers women's basketball team failures?"

Absolutely not. You have taken that out of context. You initially argued that this was some sort of "racial" barrier they(the black community) have knocked down. I have called "bullshit" on that statement. On a societal level, all barriers were finally knocked down after civil rights and affirmative actions measures began sinking in. Any "barriers" they still maintain are their own creation. As a woman, I can identify with alot of those "barriers", and can contend that since I simply do not allow them, I no longer have them. If one person won't hire me because I am a woman, I go somewhere else. It's that simple. Surely I could play the "I'm a woman!" card, but how far would that get me? Is this making sense to you now, at all?

"That argument presumes that there was nothing racist to start with in Imus' statement and that only the protest against it as being racist has given it its racist character."

Actually, no it doesn't. At its root, it means that something not deserving credibility, yet given just that, in any manner, deems it credible.

As for definitions, peruse urbandictionary.com. Surely you will see the myriad meanings, and not all racially inclined.

"I'm sure the whites had their collaborators and their enablers, their Uncle Toms etc. but it was white merchants, white buyers, white ships and white armies that created and maintained slavery.  Without the entire white support structure for slavery in place, the entire system wouldn't have lasted a minute." 

Slavery was nothing more than a social-economic condition that was in its final phases-and was phasing out-during the civil war. Slavery still exists, but not in a state so readily identifiable.

"The problems of today's African-Americans descends squarely from North American slavery, Jim Crow and lynch mob racism, and regardless of what problems remain today from ancient and international forms of slavery, their problems are strictly the "gift" of white male Americans and nobody else."

That "Jim Crow and lynch-mob racism" affected Jews and Catholics as much-sometimes, demographically, more than-African Americans.
Their "problems" are no longer "problems", except by their choosing.

"Hopefully ALL such insults are condemned by the majority of Americans."

Insults exist. You can't liberal-guilt them away. You simply can't. You can, however, grow up and let them roll off of you. I don't want to use my "I'm a smart, pretty girl card" again, but...

"MY point was that this was totally irrelevant and furthermore may have been provoked (not justified, just provoked) by Jews and Koreans insulting blacks."

So it IS acceptable that if someone is "justified" by another actions than it is ok to make ignorant or inflammatory statements.

"I can't recall anything like Imus' comments ever coming out of the mouth of Lenny Bruce."

If you take into consideration the era and outlets Bruce ranted on-yes, they were considered just as bad, at the least.

I would remain indifferent because it's not bullying. Its someone being an ass. He is at liberty to be an ass. And you are at liberty to disregard his sentiments.

Domer: "But as for Imus, when he gets over the shock and digests the humble pie, he'll find a place at my table any time he wants, with Sharpton or Jackson in a fantasy guest list designed to show solidarity against perpetuating harmful stereotypes against vulnerable minorities, respect for a public figure who tried (and failed) to bridge gaps with humor, and for the holy grail of civil discourse, so long missing."

Well said. That is, if you can accept such sentiment from someone you have deemed a "white supremacist".

Fatman: "You can't have this one-sided social prosecution, all that does is reinforce the ignorant ideas in some people's minds."

Agreed!

As it stands, even though I LOVE to argue, I must admit this is getting played out. Sensibility being what it is, unless someone raises a valid question or argument, I'll refrain from this. On this thread anyway >: D

[The_Professor]

American radio icon Don Imus disgraced, fired after threat to reveal 9/11 secrets
 
13.04.2007 Source:  URL: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/89728-Don_Imus-0

In a clear sign of its intent to reign in dissident American media personalities, and their growing influence in American culture, US War Leaders this past week launched an unprecedented attack upon one of their most politically 'connected', and legendary, radio hosts named Don Imus after his threats to release information relating to the September 11, 2001 attacks upon that country.

According to European reports of the events surrounding Don Imus that have gripped the United States this past week, it was during an interview with another American media personality, Tim Russert, who is the host of a television programme frequently used by US War Leaders, wherein while decrying the state of care being given to American War wounded stated, "So those bastards want to keep these boys [in reference to US Soldiers] secret? Let's see how they like it if I start talking about their [in reference to US War Leaders] secrets, starting with 9/11."

Unable to attack such a powerful media figure as Don Imus, directly, the US War Leaders, and as we have seen many times before, resorted to a massive media attack against him using as the reason a racial slur against a US woman's basketball team, but which has been pointed out by other media outlets was not by any means a rare occurrence for the legendary radio icon to make.

But, to the US War Leaders, Don Imus represented the most serious threat, to date, of the growing assault against them by America's media personalities threatening to expose the truths behind the events of September 11, 2001 and the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars; and to such an extent that another American media personality, Rosie O'Donnell, has expressed concern that US Military Leaders could actually imprison Mr. Imus.

From our past research of the tactics used against those threatening America's War Leaders, the likelihood of imprisonment for Don Imus would only occur should he persist in his threats to undermine their authority, and which appears, at this time, unlikely after the public disgrace he has had to endure.

It is expected, also, that the US War Leaders actions against Don Imus will have a further chilling affect upon other American media personalities questioning their authority, such as the popular US movie actor, Charlie Sheen, and who was one of the first to question the events of September 11, 2001, and as we can read as reported by New Zealand Herald News Service in their article titled "Charlie Sheen may voice 9/11 documentary", and which says:

"US actor Charlie Sheen is reportedly in talks to narrate an internet documentary that suggests elements of the US government were behind the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Centre.

Sheen's representatives say he was involved in the production of a new version of Loose Change, a 90-minute conspiracy theory film that has been seen by more than 10 million internet viewers."

Apparently lost upon America's media personalities is that a government being investigated by the International Red Cross for the torture of an Iranian Diplomat by whipping with steel cables on his feet; a government that would have its soldiers imprison in an Ethiopian torture jail a Swedish teenage girl; a government that would even contemplate the release of one of the World's most wanted terrorists, Posada Carriles; does not hesitate, for even a second, to crush any, and all, opposition to it.

To the American people themselves their remains no evidence that they know, much less care, about the dire state of their once Free Nation.

 

[modestyblase]

Interesting take on that.

[BT]

13.04.2007 Source:  URL: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/89728-Don_Imus-0

I did not know that Mikey freelanced for Pravda.

[sirs]

Here, Here......couldn't have said it better, Fatman      *golf clap*

[Plane]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070415/ap_on_re_eu/germany_army_video;_ylt=Aqdjm7RHntzmO0cIjrHcMAtbbBAF



Not exactly the same subect , though it does involve racism....


Not good for German tourism .

[Plane]

And as for his charity work? so what? Should that exuse anything else he does/ If he helps an old woman across the street, should he be acquitted of murder? One thing has nothing to do with each other. Just think if he had said that about Laura Bush or Mother Babs?

terra

He didn't?

I don't know how  they would get missed, he insulted everyone elese in the Republican party.

He has said stuff like this about a lot of prominent people in power , this time though, he has struck the innocent .


Our society benefits from haveing clowns aound that are immune to the powerfull ,enough to vent the frustraion of the common man.

But he deseres to be chided or mocking the innocent .

[_JS]

But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard.

It is indeed a double standard. Factually.

Here, Here......couldn't have said it better, Fatman      *golf clap*

No one is stopping you from saying it. Maybe it is a double standard, so what?

Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.

Then you can benefit from the percieved double standard you seem to care so much about.

[BT]

Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.

Is that because of the color of skin or a cultural situation?

Can a poor black child escape from the ghetto by making good choices and utilizing the tools offered? The same choices and tools offered to poor white children, BTW.

[_JS]

Is that because of the color of skin or a cultural situation?

Because of a multitude of variables that have led to gross inequality.

Can a poor black child escape from the ghetto by making good choices and utilizing the tools offered? The same choices and tools offered to poor white children, BTW.

Can a small percentage overcome the obstacles of inequality? Yes. Will the vast majority? No.

The truth is that cliche-riddled stories of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and living the so-called "American Dream" is hampered by the very American system of capitalism, which breeds the inequality itself. Cities like Memphis, Detroit, and Saint Louis do not have the level of inequality between the races simply because black culture is somehow "inferior" anymore than Mexican or Vietnamese cultures are "inferior."

Note the desire above is not to end the racism, but to end the perceived doublestandard.

[modestyblase]

here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.

Disproportionately poor? Do they own the patent on this? Do you have sources to prove they are disproportionately poor, and to who they are measured against at that?

Unemployed? Can you effectively explain *why* blacks are in large numbers unemployed?

In prison? Well thats something I agree with you on, but I am opposed to jail time for victimless crimes, so as it goes...(so it goes   )

More likely to die at a younger age? What studies do you have to prove this?

Because of a multitude of variables that have led to gross inequality.

Weren't those addressed via civil rights and affirmative action legislations and fallout?

The truth is that cliche-riddled stories of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and living the so-called "American Dream" is hampered by the very American system of capitalism, which breeds the inequality itself.

I bet first generation immigrants would disagree.

Cities like Memphis, Detroit, and Saint Louis do not have the level of inequality between the races simply because black culture is somehow "inferior" anymore than Mexican or Vietnamese cultures are "inferior."

Memphis, Detroit, and St. Louis, being relatively poor cities anyway, are poor examples.

[BT]

Can a small percentage overcome the obstacles of inequality? Yes. Will the vast majority? No.

Why not? This country has spent billions to alleviate inequities. Is that money down the drain?

[The_Professor]

But if a white man says it, well, crucify the bastard.

It is indeed a double standard. Factually.

Here, Here......couldn't have said it better, Fatman      *golf clap*

No one is stopping you from saying it. Maybe it is a double standard, so what?

Here's an idea, you trade places with a demographic that is diproportionately poor, unemployed, in prison, and more likely to die at a younger age.

Then you can benefit from the percieved double standard you seem to care so much about.

So, you admit it is a double standard?